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[Unit Dev] Isuzu
 
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Shinnentai

 

Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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Post subject: [Unit Dev] Isuzu Reply with quote   (Liked by:)  Like this post
Hi guys,

Please use this thread to contribute and discuss your ideas for this Deck 5 unit. The development team aren't under any obligation to adopt these ideas, but I've asked them to review this thread before we start our own discussion of the unit.

With that in mind, please try to keep your posts persuasive rather than argumentative - your ideas are far more likely to be adopted if you use reason, so let's keep it civil gents.

Here are some stats to kick off the discussion - they've been vetted by the team, but if you see anything you disagree with, please do raise it here.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Isuzu
Nagara class Light Cruiser
Commissioned: August 1923
Lost: April 1945
Displacement: 6,050 tons standard
Length (OA): 432 ft
Beam: 46 ft, 6 in
Speed: 32 kts
Armament: 6 x 5 in DP (3 x 2), 50 x 25 mm AA (11 x 3, 17 x 1), 8 x 24 in (2 x 4), 2 x DCR


(final configuration when lost according to The Imperial Japanese Navy. Also mounted Type 94 high-angle fire-control, Nos. 13, 21 & 22 radars, hydrophone & sonar)

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Ship - Cruiser
1941
Speed: 2
MG: 6-5-4
AA: 6
ASW: 2
TT: 2-2-1-1
A/VA/HP: 3/8/3

Long Lance Torpedoes - Each torpedo hit rolled by this unit deals 1 extra point of hull damage.

Limited ASW Threat
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Class limit : unlimited


Sep'42 - with Kinu, escorted troop transports for invasion of Solomon Islands. Replaced Jintsu as flagship for Desdivs 15,24,31.

Oct'42 - Led Desdiv 31 against Guadalcanal, providing over for BBs & CVs, plus firing on Marine batteries on Tulagi Island.

Nov'42 - 2nd Guadalcanal - two near misses from SBD Dauntless. No.3 boiler room flooded and returned to Shortland for emergency repairs.

Oct'43 - with Naka, attacked by submarine USS Shad, which fired 10 torps but missed.

Nov'43 - Escorting troop convoy when attacked by B-24 Liberators. Damaged by mine laid by USS Silversides. Ferried troops to Kwajalein. Damaged in attack by Dauntlesses & Avengers.

Jan-Sep'44 - converted to AA cruiser. Became flagship of Rear Adm Heitaro Edo's CruDiv 31 (antisubmarine).

Oct'44 - Battle of Leyte Gulf. Part of Northern (Decoy) force. Rescued 480 survivors from Chitose, having been attacked by US carrier aircraft. Isuzu attempted to protect Chiyoda, which was damaged by 2nd aircraft strike, but US surface forces arrived to sink Chiyoda.

Nov'44 - hit by 1 of 6 torpedoes fired by USS Hake. Severe damage to stern and rudder destroyed. Returned to Singapore after emergency repairs at sea.

Apr'45 - near-missed by attack from RAAF 10 B-25 Mitchells. Landed troops at Bima Bay. Hit in bow by RAAF B-24 Liberators. USS Besugo missed Isuzu with 9 torps. The next day, Gabilan hit Isuzu with 1 of 5 torps. Speed feel to below 10 kts. Hit twice more by USS Charr while under emergency repair and sunk.
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PostSun Jan 29, 2017 9:29 pm
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Shinnentai

 

Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:)  Like this post
This is Isuzu as she appeared after her conversion to an 'AA cruiser' in 1944. Pre-refit stats would be as on Nagara.

The Dev Team do not believe that the AA armament on this justifies a base AA score greater than 6 (note that it is mostly/entirely the 5in guns which factor here rather than the 25 mm), though an AA SA would be appropriate.

It's arguable whether Isuzu would have had Long Lances. She did swap out her 4 dual mounts for 2 quad mounts during the war, and we have references implying that installation of quad mounts is linked to change from the Type 90 to Type 93 Long Lance torps.

There is some precedent stipulating that switching the main armament like this constitutes a major refit and that the unit should be dated from the year of refit and constitute a separate class for limits. However the Dev Team believe that on an already mediocre unit this would not be the best path to take.
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"...we shall prove ourselves once more able to defend our island home, to ride out the storm of war... if necessary for years, if necessary alone."
PostSun Jan 29, 2017 9:48 pm
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Heavygear

 

Joined: 22 Jul 2008
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Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:)  Like this post
Shinnentai wrote:
This is Isuzu as she appeared after her conversion to an 'AA cruiser' in 1944. Pre-refit stats would be as on Nagara.

The Dev Team do not believe that the AA armament on this justifies a base AA score greater than 6 (note that it is mostly/entirely the 5in guns which factor here rather than the 25 mm), though an AA SA would be appropriate.

It's arguable whether Isuzu would have had Long Lances. She did swap out her 4 dual mounts for 2 quad mounts during the war, and we have references implying that installation of quad mounts is linked to change from the Type 90 to Type 93 Long Lance torps.

There is some precedent stipulating that switching the main armament like this constitutes a major refit and that the unit should be dated from the year of refit and constitute a separate class for limits. However the Dev Team believe that on an already mediocre unit this would not be the best path to take.


What are we up to here?

A 1941 initial ship or 1944 AA refited variant?
PostMon Jan 30, 2017 8:50 am
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Intravenous99

 



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Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:)  Like this post
I agree that having only 3 x 5" High Angle / Dual Purpose mounts would not really seem enough to give Isuzu an Antiair Specialist SA, nor would it seem especially powerful to warrant either Heavy Antiair or Antiair Barrage.  I do think that to keep with the notion that this card is post-conversion to a CLAA that it should have some kind of SA that reflects that...like having both the Desperate AA and AA Veteran SA's.  I also wouldn't make this a class limit of 1, since several of the Nagara-class and the similar Kuma-class lost some 5.5" mounts in place of the 5" AA mounts (though none lost them all like Isuzu).  11 points would seem fair, compared to Nagara's 10 points without LL torps and shorter torp range.  

Already bought the Isuzu FUD sculpt from Shapeways in anticipation : )
PostTue Jan 31, 2017 5:38 am
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Flakstruk

 Nobody Expects The FLAK-ATAK




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Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:)  Like this post
Heavygear wrote:


What are we up to here?

A 1941 initial ship or 1944 AA refited variant?


Proposal is to have 1941 entry date and no adjustment to class limits (ie unlimited, per the existing nagara class)
AA is adjusted up to 6 to account for the retrofit, as even with this enhancement, Isuzu is not a particularly powerful ship but will be distinct from her Non-LLT & AA5 sister Nagara.

The proposal was not adjusted to account for SAs. Thats been left for this discussion. Look forward to your feedback
PostTue Jan 31, 2017 11:06 am
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au64

 



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Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:)  Like this post
She probably should get Flag 1 considering at various times thorghout her career she was flagship for DesDiv 15, 24, 31, and CruDiv 31.
PostTue Jan 31, 2017 3:44 pm
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war at sea 4

 FROM THE USN TO THE IJN SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE FRIENDS


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Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:)  Like this post
What year is this's thing going to be::
  Good question:
Don't like earlest entry best refit:  ala Pennsylvania
  1941 stats make for a dull unit:: 1945 nicer
Wonder if a compromise is possible: not like RB never did.
 Say  1941 with a compromise on  LL and AA  wheather through stats and or SA's: not like IJN CL's without it are going scare anyone:
PostTue Jan 31, 2017 5:35 pm
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war at sea 4

 FROM THE USN TO THE IJN SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE FRIENDS


Joined: 30 Oct 2012
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Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:)  Like this post
Taking a closer look at the proposal nice start;
  Puts the IJN CL's in a position to be useful ; what do i mean??
Originals although LL very costly for what you got
    Expansion gave you lower cost but no LL
Now we have a IJN CL with possible low cost and LL; true its not the numbers thats going to scare anyone but reading its History it entitled to a lot of SA's; Tough Cruiser; BB Escort; Evade Bombs on and on.
 I think the key here is something that keeps it cost low and gives you an SA tor two that can put a IJN CL on the Board;; i don't consider LL or Limit ASW SA's
 Comparing it to Nagra she is very close in cost with no SA's, i think she could take an SA or two and stay at 10 or 11 pts.
PostSat Mar 11, 2017 3:03 am
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Shinnentai

 

Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:)  Like this post
Thanks for the discussion guys, here's the Dev Team's initial proposal (on the new forum!) - please let us know what you think! :

http://forumini.boards.net/thread/99/playtesting-feedback-isuzu
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"...we shall prove ourselves once more able to defend our island home, to ride out the storm of war... if necessary for years, if necessary alone."
PostMon Apr 03, 2017 10:55 pm
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