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Post subject: type XXI submarine
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do yall think that this submarine would get a high speed run once per game where it can go speed 2. i think it was the fastest one in WWII but i dont have Conways. im just going from wiki.  |
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 Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:39 pm |
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Nothing but Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash.
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This sounds reasonable to me. It was still speed 1 by WAS standards at around 17-18 knots. But sometimes SA's are more about flavor, so giving it a once per game boost or something would be perfectly appropriate.
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| Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:51 pm |
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I'd expect Run Silent SA... or Advanced Run Silent = harder to hit even if moving...
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| Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:11 pm |
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I think, a Advanced Run Silent perfectly fits. A speed boost can't be explained - the XXI moves with 17kn under water and 12 at surface.
Another SA could be Selfguiding Torpedo: Once per game, after a ASW attack against this sub, this unit makes a torpedo attack against the former attacker (Zaunkönig).
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| Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:38 pm |
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| well it could stay submerged for like three days so it seems that this submarine type should be very hard to hit with depth charges. plus it could run silent at a good pace. it does seem to me that this sub an all around good sub. after all it was like the best sub in WWII was it not? |
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| Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:26 pm |
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AHF Gold-Rated Trader
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it was the best sub in the war to sink nothing that's for sure.
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| Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:39 pm |
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how about this. Advanced run silent. all destroyers get -1 attack dice when making ASW against this unit.this applies when moving as well.
stay submerged.once per game you may declare that you are staying submerged, when making ASW attacks against this unit this turn 6 count as one success.  |
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| Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:16 pm |
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After looking at wiki, the Orphan SA's, and the suggestions so far, how about these?
Quiet Sub - Enemy Ships making ASW attacks against this unit get -1 on each attack die.
Homing Torpedoes - When this unit makes torpedo attacks, a result of 5 or higher is considered a success.
Predator - At the end of the second player's Sea Movement step, you may place this unit in an adjacent sector that contains an enemy Ship.
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| Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:53 pm |
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I think it would be fun to give it speed 2, but "Slow 5".
Then you could never be sure ahead of time that it was NOT going to suddenly move two zones.
Might represent not really knowing where it is underwater.
Chick
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| Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:54 pm |
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| Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:05 pm |
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| chicklewis wrote: | I think it would be fun to give it speed 2, but "Slow 5".
Then you could never be sure ahead of time that it was NOT going to suddenly move two zones.
Might represent not really knowing where it is underwater.
Chick |
Aha! You might be on to the solution to hidden submarines in this game. The game currently does not account for subs being hidden. There are many options out there, but none have taken hold. I think RB, the game designer, has probably considered some ideas but not been satisfied- thus we get nothing.
But there must be a way to easily work "not knowing where a sub is exactly" into the game.
IMO your speed 2, slow 5 idea is close.
It is not a direct simulation of how the sub warfare operated, but might work in the abstract.
I think the official solution to hidden subs will end up being an abstract of reality. Because otherwise you chart hidden movement on a sheet of paper, making the game more complicated than it wants to be.
The speed 2, slow 5 concept is abstract in the way that your opponent knows the sub is in the area, and might be anywhere within 2 sectors of where the model is currently located on the board.
You have to think abstractly concerning the subs- the speed 2 is not actually a speed 2 like ships, but rather the range that the sub might be in. Does that make sense?
The air warfare in the game works the same way- speed is an abstract concept. |
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| Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:19 pm |
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well it needs to be good because it is going to cost a lot. i mean it sounds expensive to me like maybe 15  and i do like the homing torpedoes. but i have no clue how historically accurate that would be. |
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| Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:22 pm |
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| herky80 wrote: | | chicklewis wrote: | I think it would be fun to give it speed 2, but "Slow 5".
Then you could never be sure ahead of time that it was NOT going to suddenly move two zones.
Might represent not really knowing where it is underwater.
Chick |
Aha! You might be on to the solution to hidden submarines in this game. The game currently does not account for subs being hidden. There are many options out there, but none have taken hold. I think RB, the game designer, has probably considered some ideas but not been satisfied- thus we get nothing.
But there must be a way to easily work "not knowing where a sub is exactly" into the game.
IMO your speed 2, slow 5 idea is close.
It is not a direct simulation of how the sub warfare operated, but might work in the abstract.
I think the official solution to hidden subs will end up being an abstract of reality. Because otherwise you chart hidden movement on a sheet of paper, making the game more complicated than it wants to be.
The speed 2, slow 5 concept is abstract in the way that your opponent knows the sub is in the area, and might be anywhere within 2 sectors of where the model is currently located on the board.
You have to think abstractly concerning the subs- the speed 2 is not actually a speed 2 like ships, but rather the range that the sub might be in. Does that make sense?
The air warfare in the game works the same way- speed is an abstract concept. |
Quite Interesting ..... I'm going to playtest this some
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| Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:26 pm |
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this is from wiki.The Type XXI's streamlined and hydrodynamically clean hull design allowed high submerged speed. The ability to outrun many surface ships while submerged, combined with improved dive times, made it much harder to chase and destroy. It also gave the boat a 'sprint ability' when positioning itself for an attack. Older boats had to surface to sprint into position. This often gave a boat away, especially after aircraft became available for convoy escort.
The Type XXIs had better facilities than previous classes, including a freezer for foodstuffs. Conveniences for the crew included a shower and a washbasin – crews on other boats spent weeks without bathing or shaving. The Type XXI featured a hydraulic torpedo reloading system that allowed all six torpedo tubes, located in the bow, to be reloaded faster than a Type VIIC could reload a single tube. The Type XXI could fire 18 torpedoes in under 20 minutes. The total warload was 23 torpedoes, or 17 torpedoes and 12 sea mines. The XXI featured an advanced sonar system which allowed aiming torpedoes without using the periscope, increasing stealth.
sounds like it should have torps that look about like this 5/3/3 or 5/4/3
Last edited by IJN freek on Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:37 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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| Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:31 pm |
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Posts: 1642
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Allow me to explain.
Quiet Sub - ASW attacks against this unit get -1 on each attack die.
The Type XXI was reputed to be very quiet, even when moving. It also had good under-water endurance, making it harder to spot by search aircraft. The wording was based on the Run Silent SA.
Homing Torpedoes - When this unit makes torpedo attacks, a result of 5 or higher is considered a success.
The Germans had acoustic-homing torpedoes that greatly increased the odds of getting a hit. Aquarius provided the wording, and I think the idea is valid. Possibly costly, though.
Predator - At the end of the second player's Sea Movement step, you may place this unit in an adjacent sector that contains an enemy Ship.
This type had excellent underwater speed, but not enough to get speed 2. Enough to suddenly close with an enemy Ship at the last minute, maybe. The wording is based on the Penetrate Screen SA that swarbs suggested for the U-331.
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| Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:33 pm |
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| chicklewis wrote: | I think it would be fun to give it speed 2, but "Slow 5".
Then you could never be sure ahead of time that it was NOT going to suddenly move two zones.
Might represent not really knowing where it is underwater.
Chick |
I like this idea, instead of the Predator SA I just suggested. One or the other would work for me.
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| Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:40 pm |
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Posts: 93
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| ya me too |
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| Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:44 pm |
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Posts: 93
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i dont know about yall but im beginning to rely like this sub.  |
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| Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:56 pm |
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Posts: 93
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has any one made a custom card based on this class?
so far we have speed 2
torps: 5/4/3
armor: 4/6/2
slow5
Quiet sub
homing torpedoes
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| Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:04 pm |
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Posts: 1754
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Post subject:
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The unlucky K's would be a speed 2 Slow2 submarine.
| IJN freek wrote: | has any one made a custom card based on this class?
so far we have speed 2
torps: 5/4/3
armor: 4/6/2
slow5
Quiet sub
homing torpedoes
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why not head over to this forum
http://aaminis.myfastforum.org/forum6.php
and follow this topics advice
http://aaminis.myfastforum.org/about9571.html
and the forum mini peeps will be able to help you get that card |
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| Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:05 pm |
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