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How often did the 109F/G fly with the optional gun pods?
 
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Asbestos

 
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Post subject: How often did the 109F/G fly with the optional gun pods?  Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
I ask because I always think of the gun pod kit as 'standard'. I mean, you hear about how 'underarmed' Soviet and Italian fighters were, but very rarely hear that about planes like the 109G.

What gives?
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PostSat Mar 03, 2012 6:42 pm
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'Warspite'

 

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Post subject: Re: How often did the 109F/G fly with the optional gun pods? Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
Asbestos wrote:
I ask because I always think of the gun pod kit as 'standard'. I mean, you hear about how 'underarmed' Soviet and Italian fighters were, but very rarely hear that about planes like the 109G.

What gives?


The problem with any extra firepower under the wings is always going to be the effect on performance. Back in WW1 adding a second gun to - say - a Nieuport 17 could carved a lot off of its performance. Reduced speed and reduced climb rate plus increased wing loading.

My understanding is that gun pods such as the 109's were added for specialist tasks such as ground attack or bomber attack. So if you want to go hunting B-17s or B-24s over the Reich fit the gun pods, if you are looking for fighter-to-fighter combat then leave them off.

Apart from the sheer weight affecting speed and climb, you will also find that turning circle has increased as the 109 has a small wing area and you will push up its wing loading with the extra weight. (Turning circle is proportional to wing loading). The gun pod mount will also remove some extra under wing area/lifting surface as well.

Finally I noticed on camera gun footage that some 190s hit in the wing by cannon fire suffered a minor explosion from the cannon magazine, blowing the wing clean off. Putting another large magazine out under your main spar increases that risk.
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PostSun Mar 04, 2012 12:57 am
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Asbestos

 
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Yeah, the pods negatively affected the performance, adding weight and parasitic drag and such, and a lot of pilots complained about them... but still... I just find it odd that the Bf 109 often gets a pass on armament (1x20mm and 2x7.92) vs other 'lightly' armed aircraft.
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lawrencebundy

 

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Asbestos wrote:
Yeah, the pods negatively affected the performance, adding weight and parasitic drag and such, and a lot of pilots complained about them... but still... I just find it odd that the Bf 109 often gets a pass on armament (1x20mm and 2x7.92) vs other 'lightly' armed aircraft.


I don't wish to create any kind of ruckus ... but ... the Bf109 originated around 1935 ... conceptually the smallest airframe around an inline engine.  Original armament was four rifle caliber machine guns ... heavy armament at the time compared to the standard biplane with only two.  Because of its small size fuel capacity and range were limited by later standards ... but completely acceptable at that time.  Its origins were that of an air superiority fighter ... although it was also capable of intercepting bombers of the time period.

The 109 reached it peak design with the Freidrich "F" model in 1941 ... a six year old design.  In my opinion ... the 109 needed replacing after the "F" model ... further models only added more powerful but heavier engines which required more airframe and landing gear strenghting ( more weight ) ... but could not address its design origins ... short range and limited armament.

The german air force really needed a replacement by 1943 ... but instead made the 109 soldier on in the Mustang era.  Remember: the Mustang did to Germany what the 109 could not do to Britain.
PostSun May 13, 2012 10:08 pm
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'Warspite'

 

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lawrencebundy wrote:
Asbestos wrote:
Yeah, the pods negatively affected the performance, adding weight and parasitic drag and such, and a lot of pilots complained about them... but still... I just find it odd that the Bf 109 often gets a pass on armament (1x20mm and 2x7.92) vs other 'lightly' armed aircraft.


I don't wish to create any kind of ruckus ... but ... the Bf109 originated around 1935 ... conceptually the smallest airframe around an inline engine.  Original armament was four rifle caliber machine guns ... heavy armament at the time compared to the standard biplane with only two.  Because of its small size fuel capacity and range were limited by later standards ... but completely acceptable at that time.  Its origins were that of an air superiority fighter ... although it was also capable of intercepting bombers of the time period.

The 109 reached it peak design with the Freidrich "F" model in 1941 ... a six year old design.  In my opinion ... the 109 needed replacing after the "F" model ... further models only added more powerful but heavier engines which required more airframe and landing gear strenghting ( more weight ) ... but could not address its design origins ... short range and limited armament.

The german air force really needed a replacement by 1943 ... but instead made the 109 soldier on in the Mustang era.  Remember: the Mustang did to Germany what the 109 could not do to Britain.


Exactly the same story as the Panzer IV. The Germans made quite a few old designs 'soldier on' past their retirement date.


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PostMon May 14, 2012 9:24 am
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