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Post subject: Guidelines for the cards of Dreadnought Rising units
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These are not definite, but as a start:
monetary cost
See the Costs sticky for exchange rates in 1914.
Month of availability: Enter here the month it was commissioned (such as Sep. 1942)
The time scale is 10 mins / turn.
The distance scale is 3,200 yards / turn.
Speeds ( Version 1.1 ) ( New speed chart )
< 10kts= Cripples Speed 0 *** ( See Cripple Rule )
11-14kts= Monitors Speed 1
Trawlers and Subs
15-18kts= Pre-Dreadnoughts Speed 1 SA All Ahead Full
Coastal Def. Vessels
19-22kts= Dreadnoughts Speed 2
Slow Cruisers
23-26kts= Fst Dn's and Slw Bc's Speed 2 SA All Ahead Full
Fst Cruisers
27-30kts= Battlecruisers Speed 3
Scout Cruisers
Slow Destroyers
31kts + = Other fast craft Speed 4
Explanations......
All Ahead Full : If this unit makes no course deviations ( turns ) during it's movement step, this unit gains + 1 speed
Cripple Rule : ( This replaces WaS rule ) all crippled ships assume speed 0. A ship traveling speed 0 can either temporarily gain "All Ahead Full" and move 1 sector straight ahead, or, it may remain in the sector without moving, but may change it's facing. ( Crippled ships are struggling just to stay afloat, maneuvering is pretty much out of the question )
Hull points (for ships)
ss, dd, tb : 1-2 hull points
cl up to 4000 tns : 2 hull points
cl over 4000 tns : 3 hull points
pc, ac up to 14000 tns : 3 hull points
pc, ac over 14000 tns : 4 hull points
pdn up to 14000 tns : 3 hull points
pdn from 14001 to 20000 tns : 4 hull points
pdn over 20000 tns : 5 hull points
dn and bc up to 20000 tns : 4 hull points
dn, bc from 20001 to 25000 : 5 hull points
dn, bc 25001 on up : 6 hull points
Hull points (for submarines)
surface standard displacement <700 : 1 hull point
surface standard displacement >700 : 2 hull points
Gunnery
range 0: 1,600 yards
range 1: 4,800 yards
range 2: 8,000 yards
range 3: 11,200 yards
Extended Range 4: 14,400 yards
Extended Range 5: 17,600 yards
Base Fire Values
Basic Gun Values for Central Powers BB/BC/B/AC/PC/CL/TB Version 2.1
RANGE 0 1 2 3
1 x 3.45 1 1 1 - no DEFENSIVE ARMAMENT
2 x 3.45 1 1 1 - no DEFENSIVE ARMAMENT
3-4 x 3.45 2 1 1 - Def Arm 5
5-6 x 3.45 3 2 1 - Def Arm 5
7-8 x 3.45 4 3 2 - Def Arm 4
9-10 x 3.45 5 4 3 - Def Arm 4
11+ x 3.45 6 5 4 - Def Arm 3
1 x 4.1" 1 1 1
2 x 4.1" 2 1 1
3-4 x 4.1" 3 2 1
5-6 x 4.1" 4 3 2
7-8 x 4.1" 5 4 3
9-10 x 4.1" 6 5 4
11+ x 4.1" 7 6 5
1 x 4.7" 2 1 1
2 x 4.7" 3 2 1
3-4 x 4.7" 4 3 2
5-6 x 4.7" 5 4 3
7-8 x 4.7" 6 5 4
9-10 x 4.7" 7 6 5
11+ x 4.7" 8 7 6
1 x 5.9" 3 2 1 1
2 x 5.9" 4 3 2 1
3-4 x 5.9" 5 4 3 1
5-6 x 5.9" 6 5 4 2
7-8 x 5.9" 7 6 5 3
9-10 x 5.9" 8 7 6 4
11+ x 5.9" 9 8 7 5
1 x 6.7" 4 3 2 1
2 x 6.7" 5 4 3 1
3-4 x 6.7" 6 5 4 2
5-6 x 6.7" 7 6 5 3
7-8 x 6.7" 8 7 6 4
9-10 x 6.7" 9 8 7 5
11+ x 6.7" 10 9 8 6
1 x 8.2/40 6 5 4 2
2 x 8.2/40 7 6 5 3
3-4 x 8.2/40 8 7 6 4
5-6 x 8.2/40 9 8 7 5
7-8 x 8.2/40 10 9 8 6
9-10 x 8.2/40 11 10 9 7
11+ x 8.2/40 12 11 10 8
1 x 9.4/40 7 6 5 3
2 x 9.4/40 8 7 6 4
3-4 x 9.4/40 9 8 7 5
5-6 x 9.4/40 10 9 8 6
7-8 x 9.4/40 11 10 9 7
9-10 x 9.4/40 12 11 10 8
11+ x 9.4/40 13 12 11 9
1 x 11/35 8 7 6 4
2 x 11/35 9 8 7 5
3-4 x 11/35 10 9 8 6
5-6 x 11/35 11 10 9 7
7-8 x 11/35 12 11 10 8
9-10 x 11/35 13 12 11 9
11+ x 11/35 14 13 12 10
1 x 11/45 9 8 7 5
or 11/40
2 x 11/45 10 9 8 6
or 11/40
3-4 x 11/45 11 10 9 7
or 11/40
5-6 x 11/45 12 11 10 8
or 11/40
7-8 x 11/45 13 12 11 9
or 11/40
9-10 x 11/45 14 13 12 10
or 11/40
11+ x 11/45 15 14 13 11
or 11/40
1 x 11/50 10 9 8 6
2 x 11/50 11 10 9 7
3-4 x 11/50 12 11 10 8
5-6 x 11/50 13 12 11 9
7-8 x 11/50 14 13 12 10
9-10 x 11/50 15 14 13 11
11+ x 11/50 16 15 14 12
1 x 12/50 11 10 9 7
2 x 12/50 12 11 10 8
3-4 x 12/50 13 12 11 9
5-6 x 12/50 14 13 12 10
7-8 x 12/50 15 14 13 11
9-10 x 12/50 16 15 14 12
11+ x 12/50 17 16 15 13
1 x 15/45 12 11 10 8
2 x 15/45 13 12 11 9
3-4 x 15/45 14 13 12 10
5-6 x 15/45 15 14 13 11
7-8 x 15/45 16 15 14 12
9-10 x 15/45 17 16 15 13
11+ x 15/45 18 17 16 14
Basic Gun Values for Triple Entente BB/BC/B/AC/PC/CL/DD
RANGE 0 1 2 3
1 x 12 lb 1 1 = NO DEF ARM
or 3"
2 x 12 lb 1 1 = NO DEF ARM
or 3"
3-4 x 12 lb 2 1 = DEF ARM 5
or 3"
5-6 x 12 lb 3 2 = DEF ARM 5
or 3"
7-8 x 12 lb 4 3 = DEF ARM 4
or 3"
9-10 x 12 lb 5 4 = DEF ARM 4
or 3"
11+ x 12 lb 5 5 = DEF ARM 3
or 3"
1 x 4" 1 1 1
2 x 4" 2 1 1
3-4 x 4" 3 2 1
5-6 x 4" 4 3 2
7-8 x 4" 5 4 3
9-10 x 4" 6 5 4
11+ x 4" 7 6 5
1 x 5.4 (FR) 2 1 1
2 x 5,4 (FR) 3 2 1
3-4 x 5.4 (FR) 4 3 2
5-6 x 5.4 (FR) 5 4 3
7-8 x 5.4 (FR) 6 5 4
9-10 x 5.4 (FR) 7 6 5
11+ x 5.4 (FR) 8 7 6
1 x 6" 3 2 1 1
2 x 6" 4 3 2 1
3-4 x 6" 5 4 3 1
5-6 x 6" 6 5 4 2
7-8 x 6" 7 6 5 3
9-10 x 6" 8 7 6 4
11+ x 6" 9 8 7 5
1 x 6.5 (FR) 4 3 2 1
2 x 6.5 (FR) 5 4 3 1
3-4 x 6.5 (FR) 6 5 4 2
5-6 x 6.5 (FR) 7 6 5 3
7-8 x 6.5 (FR) 8 7 6 4
9-10 x 6.5 (FR) 9 8 7 5
11+ x 6.5 (FR) 10 9 8 6
1 x 7/45 (US) 5 4 3 1
2 x 7/45 (US) 6 5 4 2
3-4 x 7/45 (US) 7 6 5 3
5-6 x 7/45 (US) 8 7 6 4
7-8 x 7/45 (US) 9 8 7 5
9-10 x 7/45 (US) 10 9 8 6
11+ x 7/45 (US) 11 10 9 7
1 x 7.5 6 5 4 2
or 7.6 (FR)
or 8 (IT)
2 x 7.5 7 6 5 3
or 7.6 (FR)
or 8 (IT)
3-4 x 7.5 8 7 6 4
or 7.6 (FR)
or 8 (IT)
5-6 x 7.5 9 8 7 5
or 7.6 (FR)
or 8 (IT)
7-8 x 7.5 10 9 8 6
or 7.6 (FR)
or 8 (IT)
9-10 x 7.5 11 10 9 7
or 7.6 (FR)
or 8 (IT)
11+ x 7.5 12 11 10 8
or 7.6 (FR)
or 8 (IT)
1 x 9.2 7 6 5 3
or 10/40
2 x 9.2 8 7 6 4
or 10/40
3-4 x 9.2 9 8 7 5
or 10/40
5-6 x 9.2 10 9 8 6
or 10/40
7-8 x 9.2 11 10 9 7
or 10/40
9-10 x 9.2 12 11 10 8
or 10/40
11+ x 9.2 13 12 11 9
or 10/40
1 x 12/35 8 7 6 4
or 12/40
2 x 12/35 9 8 7 5
or 12/40
3-4 x 12/35 10 9 8 6
or 12/40
5-6 x 12/35 11 10 9 7
or 12/40
7-8 x 12/35 12 11 10 8
or 12/40
9-10 x 12/35 13 12 11 9
or 12/40
11+ x 12/35 14 13 12 10
or 12/40
1 x 12/45 9 8 7 5
2 x 12/45 10 9 8 6
3-4 x 12/45 11 10 9 7
5-6 x 12/45 12 11 10 8
7-8 x 12/45 13 12 11 9
9-10 x 12/45 14 13 12 10
11+ x 12/45 15 14 13 11
1 x 12/50 10 9 8 6
or 13.5/30
2 x 12/50 11 10 9 7
or 13.5/30
3-4 x 12/50 12 11 10 8
or 13.5/30
5-6 x 12/50 13 12 11 9
or 13.5/30
7-8 x 12/50 14 13 12 10
or 13.5/30
9-10 x 12/50 15 14 13 11
or 13.5/30
11+ x 12/50 16 15 14 12
or 13.5/30
1 x 13.5/45 11 10 9 7
or 13.4/45 (FR)
or 14/45
2 x 13.5/45 12 11 10 8
or 13.4/45 (FR)
or 14/45
3-4 x 13.5/45 13 12 11 9
or 13.4/45 (FR)
or 14/45
5-6 x 13.5/45 14 13 12 10
or 13.4/45 (FR)
or 14/45
7-8 x 13.5/45 15 14 13 11
or 13.4/45 (FR)
or 14/45
9-10 x 13.5/45 16 15 14 12
or 13.4/45 (FR)
or 14/45
11+ x 13.5/45 17 n 16 15 13
or 13.4/45 (FR)
or 14/45
1 x 15/45 12 11 10 8
2 x 15/45 13 12 11 9
3-4 x 15/45 14 13 12 10
5-6 x 15/45 15 14 13 11
7-8 x 15/45 16 15 14 12
9-10 x 15/45 17 16 15 13
11+ x 15/45 18 17 16 14
You just count the guns that can fire in a particular FOF and then count the range, this is your base dice thrown in that particular FOF.
Torpedoes
The suggested values below refer to the number
of torpedo tubes that can be used in a direction.
For Battleships and armoured cruisers
1 TT -> 1/-/-/-
2 TT -> 1/-/-/-
3 TT -> 1/-/-/-
4 TT -> 1/-/-/-
5 TT -> 2/-/-/-
6 TT -> 2/-/-/-
For Light cruisers
1 TT -> 1/-/-/-
2 TT -> 1/1/-/-
3 TT -> 1/1/-/-
4 TT -> 2/1/-/-
5 TT -> 2/2/-/-
6 TT -> 2/2/-/-
For Destroyers and Torpedo Boats
1 TT -> 1/-/-/-
2 TT -> 1/1/-/-
3 TT -> 2/1/-/-
4 TT -> 2/2/-/-
5 TT -> 3/2/-/-
6 TT -> 3/2/-/-
For Submarines (plus examples)
1 TT -> 1/1/-/- U 1
2 TT -> 2/1/-/- U 151
3 TT -> 2/2/-/- UC 16
4 TT -> 3/3/-/- U 23
5 TT -> 4/3/-/- U 66
6 TT -> 4/4/-/- U 139
Vital Armor for Dreadnoughts and Battlecruisers
Armor + Hull
Vital Armor for Pre-Dreadniughts and Auxillaries
Armor + Hull + 1
Vital Armor for Armored Cruisers and Protected Cruisers
Armor + Hull + 2
Vital Armor for Scout Cruisers, Light Cruisers, Destroyers and Small Craft
Armor + Hull + 3
Vital Armor can be modified + or - by mitigating factors such as
superior/inferior construction
superior/inferior sea worthiness
deck armor greater than 3"
superior/inferior damage control
These modifiers should be used sparingly
Armour
belt 1"=1
2"=2
3"=3
4"=4
5"=5
6-7"=6
8-9"=7
10-12"=8
13-14"=9
15"+=10
Aircraft and airships
One single-engine card/miniature represents 3 aircraft.
One airship cards/miniature represents 1 airship.
Speed 4: 70 km/h
Speed 5: 90 km/h
Speed 6: 105 km/h
Speed 7: 123 km/h
Speed 8: 140 km/h
Speed 9: 158 km/h
Speed 10: 180km/h
...
Subject to debate all these, but I thought I should write something down so that we start.
and the photoshop template:
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Image guideline
The image of each ship must be a top view B&W blueprint with suitable contrast, resolution 300 pixels/inch and size in pixels equal to:
| Code: | | Length in pixels = 1000 * (length in meters / 250) ^0.8 |
The unit must face right and must have transparent background. An example:
The image of each aircraft should be B&W without background or with white background and look like this
Again 300 pixels/inch.
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Last edited by NeuralDream on Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:23 pm; edited 42 times in total |
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 Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:33 pm |
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Nerd on the Prairie
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just curious as to why the range one value is higher than range two? Also could the ER SA's include a bonus to die rolled for the plunging fire?
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| Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:43 pm |
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Nothing but Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash.
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| drittal wrote: | | just curious as to why the range one value is higher than range two? |
Yeah, me too, or rather, why it is higher than range 0
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| Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:52 pm |
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Nothing but Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash.
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also, when you list things like:
16x 4 in 5/5/4/-
27x 3in 5/5/3/-
12x 3.5 in 4/4/3/-
are you thinking that for a broadside value (assuming these are secondary guns) that these numbers are for 1/2 the listed amount of barrels? (e.g. the number of the secondary armament that could actually fire at a target per side of the ship)
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| Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:47 pm |
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Illuminated Insanity
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So how would plane rules work for attack planes? For the very very few.
I don't think we plan on planes for a while.
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| Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:53 pm |
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that could reflect the jump in accuratcy these vessels showed at extreamly short range as opposed to short ranges.
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| Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:57 pm |
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| Jesse_James wrote: | So how would plane rules work for attack planes? For the very very few.
I don't think we plan on planes for a while. |
I was thinking about scout planes only that move around the area to provide bonuses. As you said, let's ignore them for the time being. It's just interesting that their speeds are comparable to the speeds of the ships.
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| Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:44 pm |
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Let's think about the gunnery guidelines a bit more.
They should be related only to the guns that can be used in each of the four directions.
Take for example HMS Lion that is a typical battlecruiser.
For broadside I think it can use all 8 x 13.5in guns. So let's assign a large value for this
I suggested 14/16/14/12, because I have the impression that at 1,600 yards (range 0) it is difficult to aim so low. I'm probably wrong, so 16/16/14/12
The QE class had 8x 15in guns. So, 18/18/16/14 or so.
For the secondaries, swarbs is right. It's lower than what I suggested because of the reduced number of guns you use even broadside.
In any case, we should look at the plan of a ship before assigning attack values. For example how many 13.5 in guns can the HMS Lion use when attacking in front?
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Last edited by NeuralDream on Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:12 pm |
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personally i think the idea of haveing scoutplanes moveing about providing fireing bonuses and such is a good one even a little ability as ASW.
also being me i want the zeppelins and blimps to have thier place in this game as well as ship towed kite balloones (maybe as a SA). i am currently thinking (I'll dig up the facts from my refrences tonight that a German P class (L-11) should have a speed of 5-6 under the guidelines posted. wearas a british blimp should have a speed of 4.
other services provide by LTA in WW1; submarine spotting(I think a blimp tryed to bomb a sub once), minefield spotting(also i think they tryed to detonate mines with rifle fire and bombs with varing degrees of success), early war capture and investigation of merchant shipping (that ended as soon as incindiary bullets where avaliable), And fleet scouting. of course.
as far as fixed wing scouts the one lauched during jutland suffered a engine falure and had to return before travelling any significant distance
that don't mean it should not be possible in our game but....
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| Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:15 pm |
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Can you please review these?
| Quote: |
Gunnery
range 0: 1,600 yards
range 1: 4,800 yards
range 2: 8,000 yards
range 3: 11,200 yards
Extended Range 4: 14,400 yards
Extended Range 5: 17,600 yards
The suggested values below refer to the number
of guns that can be used in a direction.
8x 15in 18/18/16/14
8x 13.5in 16/16/14/12
12x 11in 15/15/13/11
8x 11in 14/14/12/10
4x 12in 13/13/11/9
6x 11in 12/12/11/9
10x 9.2in 12/11/10/8
4x 9.2in 9/8/7/6
8x 7.5in 8/8/7/5
12x 6in 8/7/6/5
6x 6in 6/6/5/4
4x 6in 5/5/4/4
8x 4in 4/4/3/-
12x 3.5in 4/4/3/-
4x 4in 4/3/2/-
12x 3in 4/3/2/-
6x 3.5 in 4/3/2/-
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Also, am I missing any other common combination of guns per direction?
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| Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:06 pm |
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10x13.5 is on the Iron Dukes, as well as the King George IVs, and Orions,
um it is hard for me to correlate that much data. but i noticed that.
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| Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:21 pm |
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| hgraves wrote: | 10x13.5 is on the Iron Dukes, as well as the King George IVs, and Orions,
um it is hard for me to correlate that much data. but i noticed that. |
10x13.5 is the same as 8x13.5 in WAS terms. I'll write 9 there to avoid second thoughts about it.
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| Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:23 pm |
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oh ya thats right the "lost barrels" aspect forgot all about it. 
givin the "graininess" of the rules it makes perfect sense however.
i'll correct Iron Duke sortly.
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"my enemy has six sides and presents multitudes..." |
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| Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:29 pm |
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| hgraves wrote: | oh ya thats right the "lost barrels" aspect forgot all about it.
givin the "graininess" of the rules it makes perfect sense however.
i'll correct Iron Duke sortly. |
I made a new thread for it. You may want to add them there.
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| Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:42 pm |
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Has nothing to say.
AHF Silver-Rated Trader
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We should talk about the cost.
Given the conversions that you have, I would say that we convert all of the costs to US Dollars.
Now that we have that, how does that translate to point cost? Or do we give each player an amount of $ to buy their ships with (say $150M).
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| Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:38 pm |
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| Aquarius wrote: | We should talk about the cost.
Given the conversions that you have, I would say that we convert all of the costs to US Dollars.
Now that we have that, how does that translate to point cost? Or do we give each player an amount of $ to buy their ships with (say $150M). |
There is no point cost. We use only the real dollar cost at the time it was bought. Each player has an amount of dollars to spend ...
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| Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:42 pm |
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Illuminated Insanity
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| NeuralDream wrote: | | We use only the real dollar cost at the time it was bought. Each player has an amount of dollars to spend ... |
So that is how we will be playing? 
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| Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:11 pm |
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That's what Lothar said first about the game. That it will be cool to use real price instead of points. I think it's a brilliant idea and shouldn't create imbalances.
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| Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:47 pm |
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Illuminated Insanity
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I would vote on it.
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| Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:27 am |
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I've improved the template and added it to the guidelines list. I guess it's time to choose the person who will actually make the cards. Any takers?
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| Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:49 am |
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