| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Your opinions please to this variant |
| We do not end running games with this variant |
|
13% |
[ 3 ] |
| seems to be interesting enough to give a test game |
|
65% |
[ 15 ] |
| there are loop holes and gaps see my posting |
|
4% |
[ 1 ] |
| prefer to play standard games |
|
4% |
[ 1 ] |
| have not space enough for double standard map |
|
13% |
[ 3 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 23 |
|
| Author |
Message |
Posts: 6599
|
|
|
Post subject: Updated game rules for the campaign grandest fleet
|
 |
|
Special thanks to Eric Marino who invented this variant
another applause to my gaming group that spends dozen of hours test
gaming to fit out the rules and fill the gaps etc etc.
actual updated rules on one place
Initial deployment points: 50
- use up as many points as you can
- you can spend initial points for upgrades too
- no battleship and other vessel with extended Range is
allowed in the setup
- no Carrier is allowed in the setup
- use both sets including foruMINI custom cards for missing units
- be sure that you include auxiliary vessels because you
need them to seize neutral islands.
- UK forces use USN auxiliary
- Italian forces use Kinai Maru/Nordmark
- The Scenario starts on January 1941(Atlantic/med battles 1940) and all
units with 1941(1940) year and older are allowed to deploy.
- after one normal turn rules are the same as in normal WAS games the
time shifts to next odd month(in this game round 2 are in march 1941)you also can use monthly flow instead
Stacking limits
-in every sector you can place surface vessels for max 7 point total
after 1943 stacking increase now abandoned
- Battleships: 4 points
- Cruisers/Carriers with capacity above one plane : 3 points
- Destroyers/Carriers with capacity of one plane : 2 points
- Auxillary and Vessels with shallow draft: 1 point
* in every sector you can place one submarine
* in every sector you can place aircraft for max 6 point total per side(axis or allies)
- pre 1943 aircraft uses up one point
- post 1942 air units use 1,5 points
- large sub pen allows to place an extra submarine in its sector
Determine Income
- each city had its own income, no transfer allowed
- each hull point minus actual damage points remaining is
the income in construction points
Upgrade cities, Repair cities and build new units
- each city can repair either one hull damage or build
one point hull upgrade
- repairing one hull damage in a city cost 5 points
- upgrades w/o hull upgrade are unlimited to build
- build new units you must have the the correct upgrade that
gives access to build one (no subs w/o sub bunker for e.g.)
- unlimited in build up queues except stacking limits
- land airfields and bases have their own stacking limit that
decreases the normal limits for basing aircrafts
Build a ship
* first you must have the correct amount of points available, you can
include the income from the current turn also.
* then you must have the access to build the unit(battleships can only laid
down in a shipyard)
* If you lose a capital vessel you cannot rebuild it except there are sister
ships in class(for e.g. if Missouri goes down, USN player can only built
the Iowa, Wisconsin or New Jersey now)
*All units start in the Island sector in that they were
initially laid down, repaired or purchased
* if you lay down a ship, place as many rearming counters next to that
ship as that ships hull points have(a Iowa has 6 hull point so you place 6
rearming counters next to that Iowa)
* every following turn you remove as much rearming counters as your
upgrade allow.
* note that you can also remove rearming counters in the same turn
where you purchase the unit if no other units are currently under
construction in the same place
* construction queue finish older contracts in favor of new ones in case
of decisions
* a dock allow to remove one rearming counter from one ship.
* a shipyard allow to remove two rearming counters from
one ship or one rearming counter from two different ships.
Initiative, movement and combat follows the normal WAS rules but
this scenario have a couple of new rules listed below
Exceptions during sea movement
- ships w/o the SA shallow draft can enter island squares that contains
one city of the same faction with the upgrade dock or shipyard.
movement stops after entering one island sector.
- submarines can enter if the island have the upgrade sub bunker
Aircraft do have range, to keep it simple
-Aircraft with loiter SA get 24 square range
-Patrol bomber get 18 square range
-Patrol torpedo bomber get16 square range
-Fighters get 18 square range
-other airborne Bomb attacks get 14 square range
-other airborne Torpedo attacks get 12 square range
- keep track on which place they come back in air return phase
- no kamikaze move allowed except of the kamikaze units
Odd things on air attacks
fighters can be assigned to one of following duties:
* strafing with the normal penalties
* escort the own bombers/torpedo bombers
* escort the own fighters(works equal as escorting bombers)
* fight against enemy fighter
* fight against enemy other aircrafts
* if two fighters from one side on escort in the same sector they escort each other too
* the SA Escort works for fighter too, without the SA you cannot escort any of your own aircrafts
How to seize an neutral island
- Auxiliary can made a torpedo style attack at range 1 with dice equal to
its current cost against neutral cities , if you hit you occupy the neutral
city and get an normal city w/o any upgrades and damage.
- remove the successful attacker from the game and add its total cost
towards the initial stock of that island
Odd things for surface attacking
- all units in a city w/o rearming markers can make normal
attacks and can be attacked as they are in open seas
- attacking an island you can chose which target you want to
attack (defender may use scramble for defense)
- torpedo attacks vs an island itself or Ships under
construction/repair are prohibited
Scramble for defense
trigger after the end of the last players sea movement step
*If a enemy ship approaches towards one of your island into possible
range of attack you may declare scramble for defense after the sea
movement step for all units that are currently under construction or
repair on that island.
*remove the rearming counters from ships under construction or repair
and replace each rearming marker with a 1 damage counter.
*all units that scramble for defense get a -1 penalty for gunnery attacks
this penalties stack with other penalties.
*submarines cannot scramble for defense
*units that scramble for defense cannot move under any circumstances.
*units that scramble for defense does not benefit from repairs or
construction in following turns until you declare further repairs and
construction as stated in the rules.
Results from damaging islands
- normal hits on cities give them a hull damage marker
- vital hits on cities remove one upgrade of
your (attacker) choice
- if upgrades are removed that give access to build units
remove all units that are affected by this and that have
more than one rearming marker remaining.
- Ships are excluded from the effects of removed
docks and remain in the game.
The rearming markers that remains on the affected ships
would replaced with the equal number of damage markers
plus one extra damage marker.
The affected ships also considered as beached, cannot
shoot back in the same turn and cannot move until the
island build up a new dock.
- if the last upgrade ever is removed from the city and hull
damage is equal to remaining hull points remove the entire
city from the game including the left over money.
- You can not replace removed cities with anything
Repair a ship
*move the damaged/crippled ship into the matching yard/dock.
*to announce a repair action place now one rearming(repair)
counter next to the ship that undergo repairs.
*at the beginning of the following turns you remove as much
damage counters as the dock/shipyard allows, if the last
damage is removed then remove the rearm(repair) counter
too, but the ship cannot leave the port this turn
(simulate the outfitting for the next sea turns)
*Each damage that would be removed cost as many point from
the stock equal the repaired ship total hull
points,if the island cannot afford the cost of further
repairs the repair is delayed until there is enough stock or
repairs are canceled.
*a shipyard allows repairing two hull points for paying only
once the equal of the ships total hull points.
For e.g.repairing the Nagato would cost 5 points
because Nagato had 5 hull points total.
Repairing the Baltimore would cost 3 points because
Baltimore had 3 hull points total.
_________________
YVAN EHT NIOJ !
Last edited by The_lucky_Y on Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:47 pm; edited 31 times in total |
|
 Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:13 pm |
|
|
Posts: 6599
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
Status/upgrade sheet
starting city comes up with airbase and shipyard already build.
(you can start with fewer upgrades on the starting city but
at least a dock and a airfield is required)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Basic neutral City
[ 3] Armor
[ 6] Vital Armor
[ 5] Hull Points
This unit builds upgrades at a rate of one hull point
per turn.
Upgrades that not increase hull points are unlimited to build in one turn.
This unit earns one point for each hull point it
has minus actual hull damage markers
This unit may repair itself for one hull point at a cost
of 5 points once per turn
this can only be destroyed if there no hull points and no upgrades remaining.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dock upgrade cost 5 points
[--] Armor
[--] Vital Armor
[+1] Hull Points
This unit builds Ships at a rate of one hull point
per turn.
give access to build cruisers,destroyers and smaller
can only repair cruisers, destroyers and smaller
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shipyard upgrade cost 15 points
[--] Armor
[--] Vital Armor
[+2] Hull Points
This unit builds Ships at a rate of two hull points
per turn.
give access to build battleships
can repair all ships
This unit must replace the dock
If this unit is destroyed replace it with the Dock.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine bunker upgrade cost 15 points
[--] Armor
[--] Vital Armor
[+1] Hull Points
This unit builds submarines at a rate of one hull point
per turn.
gives access to build and repair subs
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Large Sub pen upgrade cost 20 points
[--] Armor
[--] Vital Armor
[+1] Hull Points
This unit builds submarines at a rate of two hull point
per turn and allow to stack an additional sub in the sub pen´s own square
This unit replace the Submarine bunker.
If this unit is destroyed replace it with a submarine bunker
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Airstrip upgrade cost 10 points
[--] Armor
[--] Vital Armor
[+1] Hull Points
This unit builds Aircraft at a rate of one hull point
per turn.
This unit may base one carrier based aircraft
cannot base patrol bombers w/o loiter SA
gives access to build patrol bombers with the SA loiter and
aircraft that can be based on carriers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Airbase upgrade cost 15 points
[--] Armor
[--] Vital Armor
[+2] Hull Points
This unit can build two hull points at the same turn
This unit may base two aircraft of any type
gives access to build aircrafts of any type
this unit must replace the airstrip
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Light AA-guns upgrade cost 10 points
Attacks |0|1|2|3|
Anti-Air |6|-|-|-|
[--] Armor
[+1] Vital Armor
[--] Hull Points
This unit allows your city to make one AA attack
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Heavy AA-guns upgrade cost 15 points
Attacks |0|1|2|3|
Anti-Air |7|-|-|-|
Main |-|-|-|-|
2nd |-|-|-|-|
tertiary |-|-|-|-|
This unit allows your city to make an attack against
two aircraft in its hex
this upgrade must replace the light AA guns
If this unit is destroyed replace it with the light AA guns
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Early Warning System upgrade cost 20 points
Attacks |0|1|2|3|
Anti-Air |8|7|-|-|
This unit allows your city to make an attack against
three aircraft in its AA attacking range
this upgrade must replace the heavy AA guns
If this unit is destroyed replace it with the heavy AA guns
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Poor Coastal Defense upgrade cost 10 points
Attack |0|1|2|3|
Main |5|5|4|-|
2nd |-|-|-|-|
Tertiary |-|-|-|-|
[+1] Armor
[+1] Vital Armor
[--] Hull Points
*coastal defense have facing drawn from the center of the
city square through the squares that have straight facing
towards the location of the gun.
* each coastal defense can only fire in the direction of its
facing.
*You can place up guns to six different locations on each
island, remember that only the stats of the best upgrade
counts towards the city stats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good Coastal Defense upgrade cost 15 points
Attacks |0|1|2|3|
Main |8|8|7|6|
2nd |5|5|4|-|
Tertiary |-|-|-|-|
[+2] Armor
[+2] Vital Armor
[--] Hull Points
this unit must replace the poor coastal defense
If this unit is destroyed replace it with the
poor coastal defense
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Great Coastal Defense upgrade cost 20 points
attack | 0| 1| 2| 3|
Main |12|12|11|10|
2nd | 8| 8| 7| 6|
Tertiary | 5| 5| 4|--|
[+3] Armor
[+3] Vital Armor
[--] Hull Points
Extended range 4:
If this upgrade is in a undamaged city it can make a range 4 main gun attack using its range 3 attack value.
this unit must replace the good coastal defense
If this unit is destroyed replace it with the
good coastal defense
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Coastal Torpedo Launcher upgrade cost 12 points
Attack | 0| 1| 2| 3|
Torpedos |2|2|1|0|
[--] Armor
[+1] Vital Armor
[--] Hull Points
This unit can fire in each direction there existing coastal guns can fire
Only one launcher per Island is allowed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
to keep track of the Income/upgrades use counters/coins or pen and paper
_________________
YVAN EHT NIOJ !
Last edited by The_lucky_Y on Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:27 pm; edited 6 times in total |
|
| Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:15 pm |
|
|
Posts: 955
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
Looks very interesting.
I myself had similar ideas. I would have joined If I wouldn't go on holidays next week.
Babs out! |
|
| Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:18 pm |
|
|
Has nothing to say.
AHF Silver-Rated Trader
Posts: 3847
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
I moved this per Lucky_Y's request.
_________________
I have to make a new sig because my old one is too wide for this new look... |
|
| Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:55 pm |
|
|
Posts: 6599
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
edit because obsolete content
_________________
YVAN EHT NIOJ !
Last edited by The_lucky_Y on Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:33 pm; edited 5 times in total |
|
| Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:22 pm |
|
|
Posts: 6599
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
content moved to the top
_________________
YVAN EHT NIOJ !
Last edited by The_lucky_Y on Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:18 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:59 pm |
|
|
Posts: 6599
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
here some pics from our shop playing table during one match .
notice that the Islands and the table are made by the shop owner , I made only the little 3D chits that are placed around the islands and on the islands.
here the IJN Player(me) with his starting setup:
By The_Lucky_Y
1x Shokaku+ 1 val and 5 Kinai Marus
my Opponent(USN)starts with following:
By The_Lucky_Y
1x Hornet 6x Jeremiah o´brien and one catalina.
3 turns later:
By The_Lucky_Y
main island just build up an submarine bunker and produce 2 Zekes too
first occupied island for the IJN:
By The_Lucky_Y
USN did not sleep and do this:
By The_Lucky_Y
_________________
YVAN EHT NIOJ ! |
|
| Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:19 pm |
|
|
Posts: 6599
|
|
|
| Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:36 pm |
|
|
Silver-Rated Trader
Posts: 1888
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
hey, I took a shot at a card for this thing. I will do the others once I am sure I am hitting the mark on it.
let me know what needs changed.
_________________
An appeal to fear never finds an echo in German hearts.
Otto von Bismarck
http://riversidegaming.myfastforum.org/forum3.php |
|
| Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:16 pm |
|
|
Posts: 6599
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
| Mad Ghost/0331 wrote: | hey, I took a shot at a card for this thing. I will do the others once I am sure I am hitting the mark on it.
let me know what needs changed.
|
the basic neutral city had no gunnery value, for getting any gunnery value you must upgrade it with coastal defense or Anti air guns.
either there are no aircraft basement slots on any normal neutral city.
only the starting city of an player had already build on shipyard and airbase, so the starting city had following armor stats: 3 armor / 6 vital / 9 hull.
the starting city also had no gunnery value.
no other changes are needed
if your card should display the starting city then you must only change the hull points from 5 towards 9 hull points
and the city itself cost no points you occupy them with auxilliarys or strt with them.
nice work on your card.
hope you have fun playing with this szenario campaign.
_________________
YVAN EHT NIOJ ! |
|
| Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:51 pm |
|
|
Silver-Rated Trader
Posts: 1888
|
|
|
| Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:43 pm |
|
|
Posts: 6599
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
starting city is well done
neutral city had only one little mistake the hull stats only 5 instead of your 6.
nice cards, we use only a sheet of paper (and another sheet with the rules
and stats printet on as like the settlers of catan building cost cards)
to keep track of the citys because I made some 3d pieces of clay that
represents the upgrades so everybody can see with one view what each
island had build on, see the pictures above in the thread show some of them.
_________________
YVAN EHT NIOJ ! |
|
| Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:55 pm |
|
|
AHF Bronze-Rated Trader
Posts: 388
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
Reading the two sets of rules (this set and the original set), I am still confused about the way income and building/repairing ships works. If a city's income equal to it's overall hit points, and the city upgrades have a specific rate of construction, then won't a city have points left over?
Example: A city has 8 hull points and a Shipyard. The income is 8 per turn, but it can only build two hull points per turn. Won't the excess income accumulate over time? |
|
| Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:28 am |
|
|
Has nothing to say.
AHF Silver-Rated Trader
Posts: 3847
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
Yes, that's the idea.
Otherwise, how would you save up for Battleships?
_________________
I have to make a new sig because my old one is too wide for this new look... |
|
| Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:58 am |
|
|
Posts: 6599
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
| UNC_Samurai wrote: | Reading the two sets of rules
(this set and the original set), I am still confused about the way income
and building/repairing ships works.
If a city's income equal to it's overall hit points, and the city upgrades
have a specific rate of construction, then won't a city have points left
over?
Example: A city has 8 hull points and a Shipyard. The income is 8 per
turn, but it can only build two hull points per turn. Won't the excess
income accumulate over time? |
determining the income of one city:
count the total amount of hull points including any upgrades that upgrade
hull points(only following upgrades count towards the hull points:a dock
+1 hull,a shipyard that replaces the dock + 2 hull, a submarine bunker +1
hull, airfield +1 hull and the airbase that replaces the airfield +2 hull)then
substract any remaining damagae counters and you have the final income
for this turn.
example
island city with airbase upgrade and dock upgrade would earn 8 point
total(5 from base city +2 from airbase and +1 from the dock)
if you wish to save more points for finally lay down an battleship for e.g.
Kongo you can save the total income of that island as long as you reach
the needed points, a island with 10 point income(shipyard,airbase and sub pen) must save 4 rounds to lay down the Kongo and have a rest of 5 points
your example:
| Quote: | Example: A city has 8 hull points and a Shipyard. The income is 8 per
turn, but it can only build two hull points per turn. Won't the excess
income accumulate over time? |
your city cannot have 8 hull points because the only upgrade that boost
your hull points is the shipyard there. correct calculation:
base city= 5 hull point= 5 coins income/round
shipyard=+ 2 hull points = +2 coins income /round
summary:
7 hull points = 7 coins income /round
every income that not used up in the current turn can be saved to the
following turns.
the mistake that you made: the shipyard REPLACES the dock , if you build
a shipyard you must first remove the existing dock.
Upgrades general:
only the upgrades that boosts the hull points are limited, you can build
only one of those upgrades each turn, if the upgrades boost more than
one hull point you gain the difference from the previous upgrade that
removed for the current upgrade.
upgrades that boost other values than Hull points are unlimited to build.
hope that answers your questions.
_________________
YVAN EHT NIOJ !
Last edited by The_lucky_Y on Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:13 pm |
|
|
AHF Bronze-Rated Trader
Posts: 388
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
| I figured out that city income and unit hull point construction were two separate steps. Makes a lot more sense now. |
|
| Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:49 pm |
|
|
Posts: 6599
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
struck:
| Quote: | - Aircraft with loiter SA get 24 Square range
- quadmotor patrol bombers get 22 square range
- bimotor/trimotor patrol bombers get 20 square range
- fighters get 18 square range
- Dual purpose fighters(e.g. beaufighter) get 14 square range
- Carrier borne bomber get 14 square range
- Dual purpose bomber with torps get 12 square range
- Torp bomber get 12 square range |
replace with
| Quote: |
-Aircraft with loiter SA get 24 square range
-Patrol bomber get 16 square range
-Patrol torpedo bomber get 14 square range
-Fighters get 18 square range
-other airborne Bomb attacks get 14 square range
-other airborne Torpedo attacks get 12 square range |
_________________
YVAN EHT NIOJ !
Last edited by The_lucky_Y on Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:38 am |
|
|
Posts: 6599
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
change on following Upgrades.
Airstrip cost 10pts
upgrade
[--] Armor
[--] Vital Armor
[+1] Hull Points
This unit builds Aircraft at a rate of one hull point
per turn.
This unit may base three carrier aircraft
new:may base one carriar based aircraft
cannot base patrol bombers w/o loiter SA
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Airbase cost 15pts
upgrade
[--] Armor
[--] Vital Armor
[+2] Hull Points
This unit can build two hull points at the same turn
This unit may base five aircraft of any type
new: may base two aircraft of any type
this unit must replace the airstrip
make sure that you must build carriers to boost up a numerous airforce.
_________________
YVAN EHT NIOJ ! |
|
| Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:48 am |
|
|
Posts: 6599
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
on the watchlist:
Stacking limits
- you can deploy 6 stacking points in each layer per square
- the layers are air/ surface /submerged
- battleships = 4 stacking points
- cruisers/carriers w more than one aircraft basement = 3 stacking points
- destroyers/carriers w basing cap of one aircraft = 2 stacking points
- Aux vessels and vessels with shallow draft SA 1 stacking point
- Subs = 4 stacking points
- aircraft with single print on attack value or double attack value
= 1 stacking point,count not SA´s that give another attack value
(for e.g : alternate payload) all other aircraft get 1,5 stacking points.
- late war( first month in 1944) stacking increases towards 9 points.
_________________
YVAN EHT NIOJ ! |
|
| Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:53 am |
|
|
Posts: 6599
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
NEW : better stacking limit wording
* in every sector you can place surface vessels for max 6 point total /past 1943 9 point total
- Battleships: 4 points
- Cruisers/Carrieres with capacity above one plane : 3 points
- Destroyers/Carriers with capacity of one plane : 2 points
- Auxillary and Vessels with shallow draft: 1 point
* in every sector you can place one submarine/past 1943 two subs per sector
* in every sector you can place aircraft for max 6 point total per side(axis or allies)
- pre 1943 aircraft uses up one point
- post 1943 air units use 1,5 points
_________________
YVAN EHT NIOJ ! |
|
| Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:39 pm |
|
|
|
