| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Forum Administrator
Posts: 6928
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
 |
|
| Duck Crusader wrote: | You know, I'm kinda sick of hearing that. Is the US tough? Sure. But I'm the #1 in the store league, and I've been fighting US fleets all along. It's NOT impossible to beat them, you just have to know how to use your units, and realize that NOTHING is expendable in the pursuit of victory.   |
Yes, but you've also previously stated that the other players you've been playing against aren't very good.
I suspect if you were to play someone like packertim in ten USN/IJN games, with him playing US and you playing IJN, he would win something around 80% of the games because the USN is simply stronger.
_________________
 |
|
 Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:02 pm |
|
|
Posts: 188
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
| jfkziegler wrote: | | Duck Crusader wrote: | | You know, I'm kinda sick of hearing that. Is the US tough? Sure. But I'm the #1 in the store league, and I've been fighting US fleets all along. It's NOT impossible to beat them, you just have to know how to use your units, and realize that NOTHING is expendable in the pursuit of victory. |
Yes, but you've also previously stated that the other players you've been playing against aren't very good.
I suspect if you were to play someone like packertim in ten USN/IJN games, with him playing US and you playing IJN, he would win something around 80% of the games because the USN is simply stronger. |
Well, if I can add that even Richard Baker said that we should take the stats of the wildcat as veteran not standard as the other planes and that he was sorry for the Hellcat stats...
Seems to me that a lot of US units are considered with elite or veteran crew for a low cost, but that's just my opinion.
And after seing Set II US units stats, I'll say that USN is getting even stronger.
In my club we are considering to try to give a construction handicap of 10% to US fleet players against other nations to balance games. (our games range from 50 to 200pts)
Last edited by Heavygear on Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:34 pm |
|
|
Forum Administrator
Posts: 6928
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
I think that's a reasonable way to play. I've ever heard of some people going to a 15% handicap.
I suppose you could also make the U.S. escort a convoy every time. 
_________________
|
|
| Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:37 pm |
|
|
AHF Silver-Rated Trader
Posts: 4758
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
US vs Japan are one of the most popular games to play at any point size.
Perfect example: Last Sunday I went to a convention in St Petersburg and we had 6 players and used 5 double maps for a huge map, 3 players per side, 600 points per side. Fleets were:
Yamato x2, Kongo, Shokaku, Akagi, Shoho x2, I-19 x3, Tone x2, Myoko, Jintsu x2, Yukikaze x5, and hordes of planes, 8 Zeros, Kates, Vals, and 2 Bettys and 2 Subchasers to round out points.
US had Iowa, Washington, Tennessee, Baltimore x2, Enterprise x2, Princeton, St Lo x2, Atlanta x5, Barb x4, 6 Wildcats, 5 Dauntless, 2 Devastator, 2 Catalina, 3 or 4 Fletcher, 4 Samuel B Roberts.
Air Power was pretty much even with the IJN having a slight numerical superiority. It took a while for anything to get into range of surface fire, subs were harrassed so badly by all the DD's and DDE's that they would never get more than one shot. Dauntlesses finally caught his carriers without fighter cover when they were mostly escorting their bombers and sank Akagi and Shokaku in one turn.
Once the range was closed, Yamato sunk a Baltimore, Washington, Iowa, Tennessee, and 2 Baltimores all with range 4 and 5 sank 2 Jintsu, 1 Tone, and 2 Yukikazes, and the Barbs hit with 2 or 3 torpedoes.
It was a slaughter. The US lost 2 Sam B Roberts, a Fletcher, and a Baltimore and had one sub crippled as well as losing 2 Catalinas and 2 SBD's.
IJN lost 3 carriers, 3 cruisers, 2 destroyers, and had 3 other ships crippled. They also lost several aircraft and one submarine.
If it had gone one more turn, it would have been much uglier.
Now, take all that away and rebuild each fleet with set II new units and what changes? A Baltimore becomes a San Francisco and a Jintsu becomes a Yahagi so initiative bonus doesn't really change but maybe a Catalina becomes a B-25 which might be more offensive, Devastator becomes a Avenger which is likely an improvement, Tennesse might become a Massachusetts which would be an improvement, a few Fletchers become Laffeys which is a HUGE improvement and Wildcats become Hellcats which is well, whatever, still better than a Zeke I would wager. Maybe a Kate becomes a Jill or Judy or whatever it is, hopefully an improvement. Maybe another Baltimore becomes a Cleveland to save a few points to upgrade more Wildcats to Hellcats.
In other words, the IJN did not get nearly enough units to balance power in the Pacific and in fact, more than likely lost even more ground.
One way to help is give a 10% minimum point bonus to the IJN but that's small really.
Nothing really changes, Yamatos and subs are still the way to go and many of the units in set II are unnecessary. Let's hope not, maybe some cool SA's will help the IJN but I wouldn't bet my last stick of beef jerky on it.
_________________
 |
|
| Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:27 pm |
|
|
Forum Administrator
Posts: 6928
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
The one thing that the IJN thankfully has going for it is that it has the best battleship and the best sub. The Yamato by itself can make up for lots of other problems, especially with that armour 10 that even Dauntless's have trouble hitting.
But I agree in general that the IJN lost ground in Set II, and got the smallest boost of any of the major powers.
_________________
|
|
| Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:22 pm |
|
|
Tora Tora Tora
Posts: 5700
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
| jfkziegler wrote: | | Duck Crusader wrote: | | You know, I'm kinda sick of hearing that. Is the US tough? Sure. But I'm the #1 in the store league, and I've been fighting US fleets all along. It's NOT impossible to beat them, you just have to know how to use your units, and realize that NOTHING is expendable in the pursuit of victory. |
Yes, but you've also previously stated that the other players you've been playing against aren't very good.
I suspect if you were to play someone like packertim in ten USN/IJN games, with him playing US and you playing IJN, he would win something around 80% of the games because the USN is simply stronger. |
No, I've posted that SOME of them are new. Hemlocke, MAZ, and ARK are no slouches, and I'd put them up against anybody on the forum.
_________________
Member of the Helldivers WAS league |
|
| Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:20 pm |
|
|
Forum Administrator
Posts: 6928
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
Regardless, I stand by my statement. If you put a skilled USN player up against a skilled IJN player, the USN player will win about 80% of the time.
That becomes even more true if the IJN player tries to run something besides the Yamato/I-19/Zeke fleet.
_________________
|
|
| Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:52 pm |
|
|
War at Sea Major League
Posts: 1739
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
Not true IMO
Japan is a Menace, Just cause they can't see as widely as you, do not underestimate the Power of the Darkside.
You do not even know their SA's Yet and your saying they are doomed.
HA, Me thinks you will reconsider your thoughts after you see some of their SA"s
I will play against any US Fleet any Day With IJN. Take your Stupidifed Hellcats even. I am not Scared.
_________________
 |
|
| Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:46 pm |
|
|
Posts: 6599
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
| jfkziegler wrote: | The one thing that the IJN thankfully has going for it is that it has the best battleship and the best sub. The Yamato by itself can make up for lots of other problems, especially with that armour 10 that even Dauntless's have trouble hitting.
But I agree in general that the IJN lost ground in Set II, and got the smallest boost of any of the major powers. |
against a US battleship you get serious problems even to not become aborted all bombers and then you throw 11 bombs max ok 12 bombs now the maximum if Tone spots and shokaku boosts , against a carrier better do not because defend the flattop SA of the Wildcat....against the new units your complete IJN set one Air is nearly cannon fodder or the lower stats make that your air force grinds rapidly away. and if I not oversee something the IJN is now the only force that have no destroyer that can lay smoke screen, useful ASW platforms came not to my eyesight.
Yes USA won the war,its ok , but must this fakt naturally build in a game ?
and those people that say you can win with IJN vs USN very often iŽll say your opponents seems to be green n00bs. I usually give the USN side to the n00bs that i teach the game because the better units can soak up some mistakes that n00bs usually do even if you teach them all what you know about the game.
_________________
YVAN EHT NIOJ ! |
|
| Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:41 am |
|
|
Posts: 6599
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
| Gross Admiral Raeder wrote: | Not true IMO
Japan is a Menace, Just cause they can't see as widely as you, do not underestimate the Power of the Darkside.
You do not even know their SA's Yet and your saying they are doomed.
HA, Me thinks you will reconsider your thoughts after you see some of their SA"s
I will play against any US Fleet any Day With IJN. Take your Stupidifed Hellcats even. I am not Scared. |
playing against USN is one thing
winning against USN is the other and i saw already the complete list and stats its very rare, the 80% thing seems to be ok, if you use zek/I-19/yamato only with a few carriers to base more zekes then it comes to 50-60% but only with set one because we have set 2 tomorrow not now.
_________________
YVAN EHT NIOJ ! |
|
| Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:45 am |
|
|
Tora Tora Tora
Posts: 5700
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
If your torpedo rolls work, you will rape the US every time. It balances out. I have been playing VS US fleets since I first picked up the game, and anecdotal experiences are not the be-all and-all of the argument.
_________________
Member of the Helldivers WAS league |
|
| Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:17 am |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
Donations are used for Forumini Olympics awards (donations admin: Aquarius)
| Forumini Gallery |
 |
|
