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Resident U-Head
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Post subject: RB's Advanced Rules: Darkness
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Repost of Richard Baker's experimental rules from the old AH forum. These are apparently going to be superseded by official rules in Set II, but in the meantime they can be useful:
DARKNESS
Many surface engagements in all theaters took place at night. Fighting at night drastically changed the shape of naval warfare, presenting fleet commanders with a variety of difficult challenges. Airplanes remained grounded. Gunnery ranges dropped to a few thousand yards, and ships of all sides could fall prey to crucial misidentifications of their targets and mistakenly fire on friendly ships.
Fleet Construction
Decide whether you’re fighting in Darkness conditions before you construct your fleets. Airpower is absolutely useless, so we’ll assume that you keep your carriers well away from the threat of enemy contact and send in surface forces to seize the objective.
Air Mission Phase
All Aircraft cannot fly missions in Darkness conditions. They remain at their base.
Illumination Phase
Add this step immediately before the Surface Attack Phase. You decide whether your ships will turn on their searchlights to illuminate nearby targets. The First Player places all of his illumination markers first, and then the Second Player places all of his illumination markers.
Searchlights have a range of 2. All destroyers, cruisers, and battleships have searchlights (but carriers, auxiliaries, and torpedo boats don’t).
Each ship can illuminate one enemy ship. If you decide that your ship is illuminating a target, place an “Illuminated” marker on both the illuminating ship and the illuminated target.
Surface Attack Phase
Darkness affects Gunnery attacks as follows:
* Gunnery attacks of range 3 or greater are prohibited.
* Gunnery attacks against non-local targets take a –1 penalty per die (so 4 is a miss, 5 counts as one hit, and 6 counts as 2 hits).
Special Exceptions
Several conditions or special abilities counteract the normal Darkness penalties on Gunnery attacks:
Illuminated/Illuminating: Any ship firing against a ship that is either illuminated or illuminating suffers no attack penalty (but the range limitation still applies).
Damaged Ships: Any ship firing against a ship that was damaged in a previous turn suffers no attack penalty (but the range limitation still applies).
Night Fighter: Ships with the Night Fighter special ability ignore the attack penalty (but the range limitation still applies). This advantage replaces the effect of Night Fighter, so ignore the normal effect of the special ability.
Radar Fire Control: All US ships in 1943 or later scenarios ignore the range limitation (but the attack penalty still applies).
End of Turn
Remove all Illuminated markers.
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 Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:55 pm |
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Resident U-Head
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Hmmmmmph. I seem to remember there being something about friendly fire, but I can't find it anywhere. Any ideas?
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| Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:15 pm |
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Forum Administrator
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| I think one of the scenarios has Friendly Fire rules. I think it's "In Harm's Way," and it includes night fighting rules and friendly fire rules. Could that be what you're thinking of? |
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| Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:13 pm |
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Admiral
AHF Silver-Rated Trader
Posts: 391
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What about using Radar? The US and UK navies had superior sets of radar to track their opponents? I don't know if they ever fired by radar or not, but its worth adding as some SA to counter a Japanese Night Fighter SA.
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| Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:25 pm |
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Nothing but Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash.
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| RaySpruance wrote: | | What about using Radar? The US and UK navies had superior sets of radar to track their opponents? I don't know if they ever fired by radar or not, but its worth adding as some SA to counter a Japanese Night Fighter SA. |
That's in there, under special exceptions at the bottom. The first radars popped up before '43 but were of doubtful worth, especially in close proximity to land, which covered essentially the whole of the Slot.
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| Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:27 pm |
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| swarbs wrote: | | The first radars popped up before '43 but were of doubtful worth, especially in close proximity to land, which covered essentially the whole of the Slot. |
The first radar sets went to sea earlier than that (USS New York and USS Texas had experimental units as early as 1938). Radar fire control systems were available starting in 1941, but early sets were pretty primitive. Radar FC got better and better as the war went on. The Battle of Surigao Strait illustrates the difference between early systems and later ones. The three American battleships equipped with the Mark 8 radar FCS fired 225 rounds. The three battleships equipped with the older Mark 3 sets had trouble picking up targets and only fired about 50 rounds. |
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| Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:45 pm |
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Resident U-Head
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Post subject:
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| jfkziegler wrote: | | I think one of the scenarios has Friendly Fire rules. I think it's "In Harm's Way," and it includes night fighting rules and friendly fire rules. Could that be what you're thinking of? |
Yes! Thanks, I'll update the rules later.
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| Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:34 pm |
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Posts: 12
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Post subject: Night actions
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Also, I've read accounts that the Japanese could drop flares from aircraft. They devoted a lot of pre-war time to night action training!
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| Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:50 pm |
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Post subject: Blackeagle's Modified Darkness Rules
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So I've played a couple of games using Rich Baker's darkness rules. You end up with a lot of deadly close range action, which is good. What's not so good is the way night fighter interacts with the illumination rules. The battles I've run have been US versus Japanese cruiser-destroyer fights, which means almost all the ships on one side have night fighter. Since they don't take any penalty regardless of whether or not they illuminate, the Japanese never bother to use their searchlights. Conversely, the Americans (and the occasional Australian) aren't giving away anything by illuminating because the Japanese will be ignoring the penalty anyway, so they just go ahead and spotlight everything. This takes away from the tactical aspect of choosing whether or not to illuminate, making night battles into close range versions of day battles. It also doesn't seem true to life. One thing that stands out for me in descriptions of some of the naval battles off Guadalcanal is the sheer terror of being suddenly caught in a Japanese searchlight beam. I really want a set of night fighting rules that replicates that.
To help replicate that feeling, I've come up with a modified set of night fighting rules. Basically, the night fighting penalty is now -2, and you can get rid of one point of that through illumination and a second point through night fighter. I've also thrown in some starshell rules and the friendly fire rule from over on the Avalon Hill boards. U.S. radar got better as the war went on, so I divided it into two grades. There are a few other tweaks, like integrating damaged ships into the illumination rules rather than having them be an exception.
I considered including aircraft flares, but those seem like a more scenario specific thing than a general rule to me. I'm bumping around some ideas for a Black Cat night-flying PBY though.
Blackeagle's Modified Darkness Rules
Many surface engagements in all theaters took place at night. Fighting at night drastically changed the shape of naval warfare, presenting fleet commanders with a variety of difficult challenges. Airplanes remained grounded. Gunnery ranges dropped to a few thousand yards, and ships of all sides could fall prey to crucial misidentifications of their targets and mistakenly fire on friendly ships.
Fleet Construction
Decide whether you’re fighting in Darkness conditions before you construct your fleets. Airpower is absolutely useless, so we’ll assume that you keep your carriers well away from the threat of enemy contact and send in surface forces to seize the objective.
Air Mission Phase
All Aircraft cannot fly missions in Darkness conditions. They remain at their base.
Illumination Phase
Add this step immediately before the Surface Attack Phase. You decide whether your ships will turn on their searchlights or fire starshells to illuminate nearby targets. The First Player places all of his illumination markers first, and then the Second Player places all of his illumination markers.
Searchlights: Searchlights have a range of 2. All destroyers, cruisers, and battleships have searchlights (but carriers, auxiliaries, and torpedo boats don’t). Each ship can illuminate one enemy ship with searchlights. If you decide that your ship is using searchlights to illuminate a target, place an “Illuminated” marker on both the illuminating ship and the illuminated target.
Starshells: Ships can fire illumination rounds using one or more of their gun batteries. If you decide to fire starshells choose a gunnery attack to fire the starshells. A gunnery attack used to fire starshells cannot be used in the surface attack phase. Choose a sector within the range of the gunnery attack and illuminate all ships in that sector. Starshells do not illuminate the ship firing them.
Damaged Ships: Any ship that was damaged in a previous turn is automatically considered illuminated.
Surface Attack Phase
Darkness affects Gunnery attacks as follows:
* Gunnery attacks of range 3 or greater are prohibited.
* Gunnery attacks against non-local targets take a –2 penalty per die (so a 4 or 5 is a miss, and 6 counts as 2 hits).
Friendly Fire: Ships firing at enemy ships in a sector where friendly ships are present run the risk of hitting those ships. Roll a die, on a 1 or 2 that attack (gunnery or torpedo) hits a randomly determined friendly ship.
Special Exceptions
Several conditions or special abilities counteract the normal Darkness penalties on Gunnery attacks:
Illuminated: Any ship firing against a ship that is illuminated reduces the penalty by one (but the range limitation still applies).
Night Fighter: Ships with the Night Fighter special ability reduce the penalty by one (but the range limitation still applies). This reduction is cumulative with illumination, so a ship with Night Fighter shooting at an illuminated target has no penalty. This advantage replaces the effect of Night Fighter, so ignore the normal effect of the special ability.
Radar Fire Control: All US ships in 1943 scenarios ignore the range limitation, but still take a -1 attack penalty. This attack penalty cannot be removed by illumination. All US ships in 1944 or later scenarios ignore the range limitation and the attack penalty.
End of Turn
Remove all Illuminated markers. |
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| Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:59 am |
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Resident U-Head
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That's pretty good! And it will come in handy for my (still) upcoming scenario of the Battle of Cape Palos.
One thing though, what about torpedo attacks? If you can't see your target, surely you're less likely to hit them with any weapon. I'd extend the penalties to torpedoes, as follows:
Surface Attack Phase
Darkness affects attacks as follows:
* Attacks of range 3 or greater are prohibited.
* Gunnery attacks against non-local targets take a –2 penalty per die (so a 4 or 5 is a miss, and 6 counts as 2 hits). Gunnery attacks against local targets take a -1 penalty per die.
* Torpedo attacks against non-local targets take a -2 dice penalty. Torpedo attacks against local targets take a -1 die penalty.
I've also tweaked "friendly fire". The way it was written, it was far more likely to torpedo your own ships than the enemies'! This should fix it - plus introduce some more uncertainty, as you can mistakenly hit an enemy ship, too!
Friendly Fire: Ships firing at enemy ships in a sector where other (friendly or enemy) ships are present run the risk of hitting those ships. Roll a die after a successful attack; on a 1 or 2 that attack (gunnery or torpedo) hits a randomly determined ship instead.
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| Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:20 am |
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Caesar Americanus II Munchkin Wrangler
AHF Silver-Rated Trader
Posts: 2967
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And it shouldn't apply to PBY's, as a lot of them logged many "night intruder" missions as Black Cats, preying on Japanese shipping around the Slot and The New Guinea/Philippine areas.
We're definitely gonna need birds with "Night Fighter" abilities to represent the units that specialized in nocturnal combat...
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| Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:46 am |
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Posts: 904
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Post subject:
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| EvilKobra wrote: | One thing though, what about torpedo attacks? If you can't see your target, surely you're less likely to hit them with any weapon. I'd extend the penalties to torpedoes, as follows:
Surface Attack Phase
Darkness affects attacks as follows:
* Attacks of range 3 or greater are prohibited.
* Gunnery attacks against non-local targets take a –2 penalty per die (so a 4 or 5 is a miss, and 6 counts as 2 hits). Gunnery attacks against local targets take a -1 penalty per die.
* Torpedo attacks against non-local targets take a -2 dice penalty. Torpedo attacks against local targets take a -1 die penalty. |
The problem with that is it doesn't square with the dramatic effectiveness of torpedoes in night engagements, or with night torpedo tactics (if a force had the advantage of surprise, they generally launched torpedoes before illuminating the enemy). Torpedoes get fired in spreads, so as long as you have a reasonable idea where the enemy is, even if you don't have his exact course and speed, you have a reasonable chance of hitting.
| EvilKobra wrote: | | I've also tweaked "friendly fire". The way it was written, it was far more likely to torpedo your own ships than the enemies'! |
Huh? Any attack that hits has a 1 in 3 chance of hitting a friendly. That leaves a 2 in 3 chance of hitting an enemy ship. |
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| Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:53 am |
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Resident U-Head
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| Blackeagle wrote: |
The problem with that is it doesn't square with the dramatic effectiveness of torpedoes in night engagements, or with night torpedo tactics (if a force had the advantage of surprise, they generally launched torpedoes before illuminating the enemy). Torpedoes get fired in spreads, so as long as you have a reasonable idea where the enemy is, even if you don't have his exact course and speed, you have a reasonable chance of hitting. |
You're probably right, though some penalty is surely in order? Maybe -1/0 instead of -2/-1. I was under the impression that most nighttime torpedo hits were scored at very short ranges.
| Quote: | | Huh? Any attack that hits has a 1 in 3 chance of hitting a friendly. That leaves a 2 in 3 chance of hitting an enemy ship. |
But your initial text didn't say "that hits"  Meaning torpedo rolls would hit their target on 6s... and a friendly on 1s and 2s! I just clarified what you meant.
Anyhow, it makes sense that it has a 2 in 3 chance of hitting the target, and 1 in 3 of hitting anything else - not specifically a friendly.
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| Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:20 pm |
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| EvilKobra wrote: | | You're probably right, though some penalty is surely in order? Maybe -1/0 instead of -2/-1. I was under the impression that most nighttime torpedo hits were scored at very short ranges. |
The Japanese were getting long lance torpedo hits at such long ranges that the U.S. initially attributed them to submarines, because they didn't believe that torpedoes could run that far.
| EvilKobra wrote: | | But your initial text didn't say "that hits" Meaning torpedo rolls would hit their target on 6s... and a friendly on 1s and 2s! I just clarified what you meant. |
Guess I wasn't clear there, but I meant for it to be a separate die roll. |
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| Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:09 pm |
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| Quote: | | The Japanese were getting long lance torpedo hits at such long ranges that the U.S. initially attributed them to submarines, because they didn't believe that torpedoes could run that far. |
This is one of the reasons I absolutely love the Japanese Navy. Even as early as 1905 the Japanese saw that they probably wouldn't ever have a surface fleet equal in numbers to most of their potential enemies so they worked up brilliant night fighting and torpedo doctrines that served them well and would have worked even better if radar hadn't appeared and ruined their advantage. Their cruiser and destroyer torpedo armaments were designed specifically to even the odds in night actions against superior forces. (Plan Orange if i'm not mistaken was their primary concern.)
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| Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:37 pm |
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