:: :: FAQ :: Search :: Memberlist :: Join! (free) :: Profile :: Log in to check your private messages :: Log in ::
Forumini Armies Library
 
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Axis & Allies ForuMINI Forum Index -> archive of old projects and contests -> Forumini Armies Old
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
lotharlutjens

 

Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Likes received:

Posts: 2196
FLAGS




Post subject: Forumini Armies Library  Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
This is the project's Library, If you got a line on a good research related web-site, or have some data related to this project, this is the place to put it.


Achtung Panzer A very informative site concerning all things Panzer. Vehicles, units, tank aces and more.

Exhaustive lists of vehicles used by every country in the world 1918-1945

Pictorial library with nothing but statistics

Sloped armor calculator

The archive of Field Artillery Magazine (1911-2007).

Source documents about mainly WWII U.S. Army intel bulletins, concerned with enemy tank performance and other technical details.

=============================================

I'm going to incorporate suggestions into this first post so we don't have to rummage around.  I hope you don't mind Lothar.  I do want you to get credit for an excellent idea.  --Sharpe
_________________
Gaming for 36 Years.


Last edited by lotharlutjens on Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
PostSun Dec 21, 2008 7:19 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
NeuralDream

 
MySingleNationClub

Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Likes received: 270

Posts: 18234
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
Please describe the contents of each website too.
_________________
PostSun Dec 21, 2008 7:21 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Eric Marino

 

Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Likes received:

Posts: 425
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
Didn't see this thread before

This is my primary source, pictorial library with nothing but statistics
http://tarrif.net/


This is a handy tool that I like. sloped armor calculator
http://www.panzerworld.net/relativearmour
PostSun Dec 21, 2008 7:28 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
NeuralDream

 
MySingleNationClub

Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Likes received: 270

Posts: 18234
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
Eric Marino wrote:
This is a handy tool that I like. sloped armor calculator
http://www.panzerworld.net/relativearmour

Is this true? Is it just a matter of (thickness) / sin(angle from horizontal) to get the effective armor? That was my first thought too, but I found it too simplistic to be used broadly.
_________________
PostSun Dec 21, 2008 7:47 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Buzzkill

 Rehabbing from my plasticrack addiction!


Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Likes received:

Posts: 797
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
NeuralDream wrote:
Eric Marino wrote:
This is a handy tool that I like. sloped armor calculator
http://www.panzerworld.net/relativearmour

Is this true? Is it just a matter of (thickness) / sin(angle from horizontal) to get the effective armor? That was my first thought too, but I found it too simplistic to be used broadly.


Yep, that is all it is. Basically the slope forces the incoming round to travel a farther distance to penetrate the armor than vertical armor of the same thickness.


_________________
Nuts! - General Anthony McAuliffe

PostSun Dec 21, 2008 8:29 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
Eric Marino

 

Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Likes received:

Posts: 425
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
The best things usually are that simple, I can't think of any other way it would work. Of course not every shot is ever going to be perfectly straight and hit parallel with the ground but that's why we use dice. This also does not take into account the possibility of a shot deflecting. but for determining armor thickness I think it fits the game just fine.
PostSun Dec 21, 2008 8:36 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
NeuralDream

 
MySingleNationClub

Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Likes received: 270

Posts: 18234
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
I'm not convinced tbh, because kinetic energy is only one part of the damage. The rest is chemical energy, and chemical energy is irrelevant to the velocity vector (the angle of impact). Without having thought about it at all, I'd expect HEAT rounds to be minimally affected by angle and older ones to be affected more, but not to the extent implied by that formula, I think.
_________________
PostSun Dec 21, 2008 8:52 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
MrKen

 

Joined: 06 Apr 2008
Likes received:

Posts: 3366
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
I know this is not about the thickness of the armor, but is there a formula or chart to compensate the thickness for the quality of the armor?  Some metal is better at resisting penetration than others.  For example, I believe late in the war the Germans were less able to make the high quality armor previously used and used less quality metal for armor.  Believe it affected the Elephant most.

Higher quality metal would resist penetration better than lower quality metal of the same thickness and angle with the same weapon used.
_________________
https://www.facebook.com/TerrainforBattle?fref=ts
PostMon Dec 22, 2008 2:43 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Panzer08

 

Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Likes received:

Posts: 169
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
Here's a great website full of source documents about WWII, mainly WWII U.S. Army intel bulletins and such stuff, concerned with enemy tank performance and other technical details. http://www.lonesentry.com/intelbulletin/index_subject.html
PostMon Dec 22, 2008 3:23 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
Panzer08

 

Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Likes received:

Posts: 169
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
MrKen wrote:
I know this is not about the thickness of the armor, but is there a formula or chart to compensate the thickness for the quality of the armor?  Some metal is better at resisting penetration than others.  For example, I believe late in the war the Germans were less able to make the high quality armor previously used and used less quality metal for armor.  Believe it affected the Elephant most.

Higher quality metal would resist penetration better than lower quality metal of the same thickness and angle with the same weapon used.


Great points---perhaps we can try to take armor quality into account when devising defense for Vehicles.
PostMon Dec 22, 2008 3:24 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
NeuralDream

 
MySingleNationClub

Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Likes received: 270

Posts: 18234
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
Tenente_Colonello08 wrote:

Great points---perhaps we can try to take armor quality into account when devising defense for Vehicles.

Sure. I don't think we were planning to use simply thickness or angle.
_________________
PostTue Dec 23, 2008 1:24 am
Back to top View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Angel of Death

 

Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Likes received: 1

Posts: 2005
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
The archive of Field Artillery Magazine , including editions from 1911 to 2007.
Great read on everything related to Artillery. Could come in handy when we try to determine the exact effects of artillery in game.

http://sill-www.army.mil/FAMAG/archives.htm
_________________
PostThu Jan 01, 2009 11:27 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
Angel of Death

 

Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Likes received: 1

Posts: 2005
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
Another interesting tidbit of information :

Official WW2 German tactics describing the best way to defend against Ground Attack aircraft. Believe it or not.. the answer was small-arms fire. Believe it or not.

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/defga/index.html
http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/road-discipline/index.html

So, perhaps we should include at least the possibility for infantrymen to drive off an enemy aircraft. With the best of luck.


Last edited by Angel of Death on Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:00 am; edited 1 time in total
PostSun Jan 04, 2009 2:41 am
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
PantherDude3000

 

Joined: 26 May 2008
Likes received:

Posts: 363
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
Angelofdeath wrote:
Another interesting tidbit of information :

Official WW2 German tactic describing the best way to defend against Ground Attack aircraft. Believe it or not.. the answer was small-arms fire. Believe it or not.

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/defga/index.html

So, perhaps we should include at least the possibility for infantrymen to drive off an enemy aircraft. With the best of luck.


MGs should be rather effective, but I agree that most other infantry should probably be limited to Disruption--most of the time they would probably aim to make the attacking Aircraft break off the attack due to overwhelming small-arms fire, rather than actually damage/destroy the plane--still a possibility, but a very small one. Besides, if they put bullet holes in the plane like the bulletin mentions, it might require a long repair time, but the pilot wouldn't IMMEDIATELY turn around and head home, but rather, he would probably stick around (Disruption).
_________________


spanish inquisition
PostSun Jan 04, 2009 2:52 am
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
NeuralDream

 
MySingleNationClub

Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Likes received: 270

Posts: 18234
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
I agree that small-arms fire could help, but we have assumed that a miniature represents 5 riflemen and I don't think that the article refers to so few men firing against aircraft. It's almost crazy firing with five rifles against a strafing fighter flying at 450km/h. Btw, while I was doing some research on the p-400, I came across this article. 600 Japanese soldiers killed by 3 strafing P-400s.
IMO, if we allow antiair attacks for nonantiair units, we'll only slow down the game without noticeable difference in gameplay or historical accuracy. I think that only MGs make sense to have some antiair capacity in our current scale.
_________________
PostSun Jan 04, 2009 3:30 am
Back to top View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Angel of Death

 

Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Likes received: 1

Posts: 2005
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
It would probably become a bit tedious if we did include small-arms fire being effective to ground attacks. Simple and quick would be best.
_________________
PostSun Jan 04, 2009 4:23 am
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
HHRgamer

 

Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Likes received:

Posts: 164
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
I agree with N.D. and AoD.  The game will become cumbersome if it attempts to simulate all possible situations, no matter how uncommon or unlikely.
_________________
HHRgamer
PostSun Jan 04, 2009 5:55 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
NeuralDream

 
MySingleNationClub

Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Likes received: 270

Posts: 18234
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
Sharpe, can you include in the first post the site you use for tanks. I liked it a lot, but I can't find it now.
_________________
PostSat Jan 24, 2009 7:56 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
curtm1911

 

Joined: 03 Oct 2010
Likes received: 45

Posts: 3654
FLAGS




Post subject: 2194 Days of War Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
2194 Days of War
An Illustrated Chronolgy of the Second World War
Gallery Books

Also;

World War II
A Visual Encyclopedia
General Editor John Keegan
PRC Books

Personal Collection

PostMon Oct 18, 2010 12:34 am
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.



   Axis & Allies ForuMINI Forum Index » archive of old projects and contests -> Forumini Armies Old

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Editor's Choice
Forumini Generals
All AAM cards
All AAAF Cards
All War At Sea Cards
Forumini Admirals
A20 World Rankings
1. Jcmonson 1066
1. Bean965 1038
3. Vergilius 1024
WAS World Rankings
1. Admiral Wannabee 1240
2. mnnorthstars 1170
3. Azrael 1120
AAM World Rankings
1. Lil Snips 1096
2. Tripwire 1021
3. Kawolski 1010
Friends
Official WoTC site
Richard Baker's new Blog
Le Forum de A&ANM
Riverside Gaming
A&A Underground
Top posters
Brigman 42738
weedsrock2 36854
Flakstruk 35335
RAEVSKI 26750
firesdstny 26685
Asbestos 24554
SWO_Daddy 23223
Solomiranthius 19325
NeuralDream 18234
nrnstraswa 17161
herky80 16512
Lt_V 16301
jfkziegler 15353
Swished3 14762
carrion 14490
LcdrSwizzle 13698
packertim 13611
DaJudge 13360
mnnorthstars 12784
The_lucky_Y 12511
danaussie 12161
Shinnentai 11688
hokiepastor 10867


Forumini Newsletter
Issue #10 (Sep. 2013)
Issue #9 (Sep. 2012)
Issue #8 (Dec. 2011)
Issue #7 (Sep. 2011)
Issue #6 (Apr. 2011)
Issue #5 (Christmas 2010)
Issue #4 (Dec. 2010)
Issue #3 (Jul. 2010)
Issue #2 (Apr. 2010)
Issue #1 (Feb. 2010)


Card File  Gallery  Forum Archive
Theme by: :: Cosmic Distortion ::
Powered by phpBB © 2001 phpBB Group
Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum