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Aircraft rules & 22 sample aircraft cards
 
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NeuralDream

 
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Post subject: Aircraft rules & 22 sample aircraft cards  Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
Based on earlier attempts and thanks to your feedback:


AIR RULES

Each aircraft has Damage/Vital values. E.g. the Bf109E4 has 4/6.
Aircraft can make only one attack per turn, unless otherwise stated in their S.A.s.

Aircraft placement phase
-------------------------------------
Aircraft are placed in sequence of speed, from the lowest to the highest, regardless of side and regardless of the initiative roll. If two aircraft have the same speed, flip a coin or roll a die to see who goes first. Aircraft that intend to attack ground targets by strafing or bombing need to declare them when they are placed. These aircraft get -1/-1 defense and cannot attack in the antiair phase.
In order for an aircraft to declare a bomb attack, it must be in the same sector as its target.
Each bomb attack option can be used only once per game. Some aircraft may have more than one bomb attack options. They can make up to one of each.
Note that aircraft facing doesn't matter.

Antiair phase (one per player)
---------------
Aircraft and ground troops make their antiair attacks. Attacks that reach the Damage value manage to damage the enemy aircraft (it gets a damaged counter which makes it less effective from the next phase; -1 on each attack die, -1/-1 defense ). When an aircraft is damaged it needs to decide immediately whether it will "press the attack" and be vulnerable to more antiair attacks in the same phase or will abort and be safe from further antiair attacks for the remaining of the turn.

Attacks that reach the Vital defense value manage to destroy the enemy aircraft (it gets a destroyed counter and will be removed from the game at the end of the antiair phase).

If the aircraft is damaged for the second time (in the same turn or later), it gets killed.

If an aircraft makes an antiair attack, it loses the ability to make a bomb attack for the remaining of the game.

Ground attack phase  (one per player)
------------------------
Aircraft that declared ground targets during the aircraft placement phase and did not abort during the antiair phase, can now make these attacks (either bomb or strafe). Note that Bombs and Antivehicle attacks are made against the top defense of vehicles. Aircraft get -2 on each attack die when attacking units in cover.
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Last edited by NeuralDream on Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:49 pm; edited 6 times in total
PostSun Jan 04, 2009 4:29 am
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Sharpe

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Well, I guess I was wrong when I thought you were out playing Alexander and Roxanne all weekend.  Looks good.

Questions:

1.  I'm still worried about using the AV values at 300m.  I'm primarily thinking gameplay and I have no basis for this feeling other than my rules abuse instincts are kicking in.  Should we use side armor at range 2-3?

2.  What sorts of SA's do you envision or is the system going to handle this?  Flying Tigers vs Japanese, eg

3.  What about the Blackburn Roc?

4.  Can "Defensive Armament" become an icon?  Can "Dive Bomber" become a unit type?  (Aircraft-Dive Bomber)
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PostSun Jan 04, 2009 4:56 am
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NeuralDream

 
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1. This might be true. Without playtesting I can't tell, but I don't think there is any potential for abuse there. In terms of historical accuracy and whether we'll use top or other armor for 500m strafing, I may need to read some more and make further changes.

2. I think that the Flying Tigers won't need any unique S.A. IMO they performed as well as their aircraft and luck permitted, both of which are captured in the air system already. If that's not true, finding a S.A. will be easy anyway.

3. Blackburn Roc will be the next to make Wink

4. Unlike ground troops, the aircraft will generally not need many S.A.s. There is Dive bomber for accurate dive bombers (not for all so-called dive bombers, since some were not more accurate than typical fighter-bombers), defensive armament for all that have rear gunners. Most FW190s and P-47s will get Boom N Zoom 1 or 2 (+1 or +2 dice antiair at first turn of the game) and a few aces will get one S.A. each if we decide to make their cards. For example, Rudel would get Tank Buster 2 (+2 dice antivehicle). So, I don't think we'll need any icon for aircraft S.A.s.
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PostSun Jan 04, 2009 1:03 pm
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Buzzkill

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Why do some of them not have nation roundels and have the X instead?

I printed a couple out at 53% and they were almost the same size as a standard card and looked good and were very readable.

My only suggestion would be to add some color. Maybe even different colors for different nationalities. I know we are trying to make some consideration for printing in B&W but even a little gray instead of the white background makes the cards look more finished in my opinion. For those wanting to print in B&W they can select to print in grayscale, but for those who want a little more color we can print them in all their glory! Here is a quick one with a little gray.


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Last edited by Buzzkill on Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:45 am; edited 1 time in total
PostSun Jan 04, 2009 2:23 pm
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NeuralDream

 
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If you're referring to the 109B2 and 87A1, that's the Spanish nationalist roundel.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikip...l_War_nationalist_roundel.svg.png

I'll see what I can do for more color.


Btw, unlike in the other forumini projects, here I'm making an effort to write in American English Razz, because N. Americans are the vast majority of AAM players, while WAS is much more international.
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PostSun Jan 04, 2009 2:39 pm
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NeuralDream

 
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Btw, can we focus on the strafing ranges for a while please? It will be very helpful to read more opinions on this. Do you think 5 hexes (500m) is too far for strafing and that it can create some gameplay problem? Do you think that strafing at 200+ m wouldn't target the top armor?
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PostSun Jan 04, 2009 4:51 pm
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Sharpe

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NeuralDream wrote:

Btw, unlike in the other forumini projects, here I'm making an effort to write in American English Razz, because N. Americans are the vast majority of AAM players, while WAS is much more international.


Don't strain yourself.
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PostSun Jan 04, 2009 11:37 pm
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Buzzkill

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NeuralDream wrote:
Btw, can we focus on the strafing ranges for a while please? It will be very helpful to read more opinions on this. Do you think 5 hexes (500m) is too far for strafing and that it can create some gameplay problem? Do you think that strafing at 200+ m wouldn't target the top armor?


Are we assuming that the planes are at 1000m? Isn't that the speed we are using? If the plane is at 1000m, all attacks out to 500m should hit top armor. What are you basing the 500m attacks on? Bombs, MG's, Autocannons? All of the above? I am not sure if 500m is too far but I am pretty sure top armor should be for all air attacks, to hit the side you would need to be pretty low. If you look at this chart from the Buzzkill Academy of Air Combat Studies you can clearly see that if the plane is at 1000m, attacks out to 500m would hit the top of the target:



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PostMon Jan 05, 2009 12:03 am
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NeuralDream

 
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When they strafe they are at proper strafing altitude and that's why they get -1/-1 on their defense. I can't say I know where they should be exactly. I've asked some aviation experts for info. I'll let you know when I get replies. The youtube videos of P-47s strafing show them attack at 500m with .50s and rockets, at about 45 degrees and exit immediately without passing over the target. In other cases, the strafing aircraft are at treetop level and attack at 30 degrees and fly over the target for their exit. That was common for P40s vs japanese soldiers.
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PostMon Jan 05, 2009 12:14 am
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NeuralDream

 
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Some representative replies I got for strafing:


Quote:
While i'm not sure on the angle of attack of strafing aircraft, guncam footage shows a rather shallow angle, except maybe for the highly specialised tank killers like the Stuka G.

The armour a plane would go for is most likely the rear deck. This is possibly the only part of the armour that is thin enough for the plane to penetrate. Au contraire to what most people think about air assets performing strafing actions in WW2, aircraft would have a Really, and i can't stress this enough, really hard time disabling a tank. Things like distance, dispersion and attack angle would all work against the strafing aircraft.

Softer tanks may be immobilised still by cannon ammunition, but crew kills are highly, highly unlikely. Destruction of external equipment would be most likely in this case, which would limit itself to air filters, aerials, misc. equipment etc. Most vision ports and optics however are safely hidden away or armoured and these would sustain little damage if at all. In addition, tank tracks, especially on heavier tanks are extremely tough and hard to take out.

A Tiger B, being an extremely rare example by the way, is probably not going to sustain any damage from strafing aircraft (using anything less than 37mm cannon maybe). bombs or a lucky rocket hit are a different story though. What might happen is that rounds may reach the engine because of the grille on the engine deck. However, these grilles are slanted so that entry by foreign objects is rather improbable (perhaps by some magic ricochets?).

Also, revised evaluation on air power confirms that most air to ground "kills" were highly overstated by all sides.

Rudel mostly went for the rear deck as i recall correctly, either that or the side turret of enemy tanks. In the case of the heavier ones he'd probably exclusively go for the engine deck/top. The BK 3,7cm with its high velocity tungsten ammunition is actually far inferior in penetration compared to the 8,8cm KwK 36 L/56 of the Tiger tank. The reason for easy penetration is that the armour he targeted was usually thinner. Because of the tiny round diameter the BK 3,7 must rely purely on scoring a lucky hit on a critical system (thus, requiring more penetrating hits), whereas the large 88mm high-explosive anti-tank round just enters the tank and explodes inside creating deadly shrapnell. Furthermore, the large shell diameter compared to the rather thin (angled or not) armour of the T-34 (most common target anyway) has such an overperformance in terms of shell/diameter ratio that it simply slams itself through the armour. If the shell would not explode it would probably enter the T-34's side turret on one side and exit on the other.



Quote:
Average distance depends on the average effective range of the gun your firing and what your firing at. If its a .50cal against a soft skinned vehicle then you want to be firing at 800m or less. You'll have to eyeball it. The closer to your convergence distance the better.

Versus tanks the general rule is to always attack from above and behind. Thats where the armor is weakest. A single hit from properly armed 37mm cannons will penetrate the top rear armor completely. But that round has to be an AP round...HE rounds explode on contact. So that means that the German MK108 cannon will kick up allot of dust and smoke but is totally useless against tanks.

During the war, it was unlikely for a tank to be completely destroyed by an aircraft. The flak and inaccuracy of rockets tended to make it unlikely. Proximity hits would potentially throw off the treads or cause more superficial damage but rarely completely destroy the tank. Airpower was best used against lighter targets although bomb and rocket hits made tank movement difficult as they would chew up fields and roads pretty badly.

By far the most powerful weapon in the aircrafts arsenal was its impact on enemy morale. When one sides aircraft are constantly firing at anything that moves and another sides is not...such as during parts of the Normandy campaign...the effect is immense if not direct.

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PostMon Jan 05, 2009 11:42 am
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NeuralDream

 
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For those that have missed it, aircraft facing doesn't matter and there is no defensive fire/opportunity fire for aircraft.


One more rule:

Aircraft get -2 on each attack die when attacking units in cover.
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PostMon Jan 05, 2009 12:01 pm
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NeuralDream

 
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If you agree with this last rule too, please add the air rules text in the rules sticky.

In terms of the air cards, I lowered most long-range antivehicle values. Now the max is 7/5/0 for the Stuka G-1. With the addition of the "-2 on each die" rule for attacking units in cover, I think that the aircraft are ready.

Btw, have you noticed that the size of the bomb depends on the number of dice? I thought it would look cool on the card.
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PostMon Jan 05, 2009 12:12 pm
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NeuralDream

 
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Some more info on strafing and tank busting that supports the ranges I've chosen:

Quote:
The Ju-87G's set their convergence at 300 meters against T34/76 or /85. Upon attacking the Stalin series of tanks "IS\IS2" they changed their convergence to 100 Meters and aimed squarely at the back deck or the back of the turret! They used special Tungsten-carbide core ammo on the Flak 18's with a total capacity of 12 rounds per gun. Also it is noted that usually one shot did the trick.

So, 100-300 m was the most common range for optimal anti-tank attacks of Stuka Gs.

Also, I've found out that the probability of a rocket salvo to damage seriously a tank is 0.7%. So, there is no reason to add air-to-ground rockets in the game, at least not against tanks, as tank kills with rockets were extremely rare and I can't stretch this enough. Certainly nothing of the sort implied by the P51 Mustang's card.
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PostMon Jan 05, 2009 7:04 pm
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Crusing altitude and attack altitude - i.e., a Typhoon can fly at up to altitude 2 out of 3, but can only attack ground targets at altitude 1.  Dropping an altitude costs one movement point, climbing two.
PostFri Jan 08, 2010 6:28 am
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Post subject: effects of air attacks against tanks Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
First hand accounts of the 4th DCR's counterattack (or armed reconnaissance) against the southern flank of Guderian's force on May 18, 1940 at Montcornet state that a number of the French tanks had to be abandoned because they fell into, or got stuck in, bomb craters made by the Stukas.  I don't recall any account of direct hits, but this indirect effect was quite powerful.  

I'm not sure how we could show this in a game mechanic.  Perhaps one could roll for deviation with a directional die and a distance die to determine the point of impact. If the tank was facing that direction at the time of the hit it would have to roll to see if it avoided the crater. Alternatively, if the point of impact was close enough to the tank then the tank would have to roll to see if it avoided the crater.  

By the way, I find the discussion on this thread quite encouraging.  Maybe FA is more alive than some thought.  With the support of such eminent institutions and The Buzzkill Academy of Air Combat Studies, and the forum's very own Neural Dream, we can expect great things!


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