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Why is the rum always gone?
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Post subject: Card Request - Clemson class DD - done
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So, here goes. I need this badly for an early war US Pacific campaign. There was some modification from stock before the war started, so that's what I'll include.
6x1 76mm (3") / 50 cal, DP mounts
2x1 1 pdr
4x3 533mm (21") torpedo tubes
2 depth charge racks
Max Speed: 35 knots
Here's my suggested stats:
Wickes/Clemson class
Speed: 2
Main: 3/3/2/-
AA: 4/-/-/-
ASW: 3/-/-/-
Torp: 2/2/1/-
A/VA/H: 2/7/2
I'm thinking... Cost: 6
So, what does everyone think? The only thing that really gives me pause is the Mains. There really is no baseline for 76mm guns. They aren't big, but 6 is a lot. This would put 6x76mm = 2x127mm (John C Butler).
Cheers...
EDIT: Title changed... seems to be agreement that Wickes/Clemson should be kept separate.
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Last edited by NuclearLunchbox on Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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 Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:36 am |
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AHF Bronze-Rated Trader
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My references say the ships were refitted with 3 to 4 of the 3inch DP guns. But they were not all refitted. I think the Asiatic four-stackers were relatively untouched at the start of the war. They may have still had the original 4 x 4in /50 cal guns and one 3 inch DP. They would have had about 6 x .50 cal machine guns and maybe a couple of .30 cal MG's. The depth charge racks each carried 10 DC's. I have not been able to find a reference that states total DC capacity. After the ABDA disaster the other ships in the class were hastily refitted and one or more 20 mm guns added. One or two of the 3-tube torpedo launchers was usually removed as well.
But I think your stats are okay. This class had so many variations of refit I think it is fine to just go with a 'general purpose' early fit.
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| Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:18 am |
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*Does my job*
First off. There were many different refits of the old flush deckers. Second though outwardly similar the Clemson Class and The Wickes Class had differences, and should be treated as separate classes. Even though their stats will probably be similar in game.
I suggest....we go with the Clemsons for start.
and use thier origional cofiguration. (which the majority still carried during the early years for the USN)
1190t - 1308t 35knots
4 - 4in (102mm) only 3 max broadside.
1 - 3in (76mm), By WWII these were replaced with a 3in DP gun.
12 - 21in (533mm) (6 tubes per broadside)
I cant find any Light AA noted, but i'm nearly postive some was. These guys actually popped up in the Grand Scenario. (They would have been given to the Atlantic fleet, lol) If we can figure out if it got any light AA, that'd be good.
Otherwise, we are looking at a very cheep, light Destroyer that can sometimes be good at stuff other than fodder. |
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| Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:20 am |
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SOCCEROO FEVER
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armour 1 6 2 for starters.
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| Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:09 am |
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The standard 'AA' was the one 3 inch DP gun and about 6 x .50 caliber machine guns. I am using "Flush Deck Destroyers in World War Two" by Glenn R. Arnold as a reference. So it wasn't much.
By the summer of 1942 they were all hastily armed with one to three 20 mm Oerlikons. But I agree we should do a 'December 1941' baseline outfit. So I think AA 3.
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| Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:28 am |
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Is this where we are? Do we want to name it? I would vote for the USS Edsall. Give it the Determination SA for dodging the entire Japanese fleet surface escort for several hours and totally humiliating them.
Clemson class
Cost: 6
Speed: 2
Main: 3/3/2/-
AA: 3/-/-/-
ASW: 3/-/-/-
Torp: 2/2/1/-
A/VA/H: 1/6/2
SA's for the class?
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| Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:28 am |
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Nothing but Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash.
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More than one possible SA for this ship, interesting history. Chase the Salvoes, Valiant Stand, Evade Bombs...a pretty cool story.
The four US destroyers that sank a handful of Japanese transports in Balikpapan harbor were also Clemson class, three of them actually survived the war, some cool histories there too.
Paul Jones, Parrott, Pope, John D. Ford
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| Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:57 am |
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AHF Bronze-Rated Trader
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So how about a class card without SA's, USS Edsall with 'Determination' and USS Pope with 'Destroyer Hunter'?
Point cost is hard because 1) there isn't a lot of differentiation room at this point level and 2) the torpedo stat is very good for a destroyer but the rest of the stats are very low. I think that is correct, but it makes them difficult to classify.
I will venture a cost of 5 for the class card and 6 for the other two with one SA each. The Bagley class cards are probably the closest 'guideposts'. The Clemson's have a fair torpedo 'punch', but they have poor survivability.
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| Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:28 pm |
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SOCCEROO FEVER
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done
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| Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:02 am |
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AHF Bronze-Rated Trader
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Excellent. I will make all three as soon as my computer finishes it's blasted back-up. It has taken four days and is now about 92% done. Unbelievable.
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| Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:13 am |
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Why is the rum always gone?
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Thank you, gentlemen. Didn't mean to pull the pin and run away on this one. Work has been scary crazy. I think I agreed with pretty much everything you guys came up with and like the results.
You guys rock.
Cheers...
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| Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:51 am |
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Here are the three cards. According to Conway's there were 71 remaining Clemson class DD's in service in the fall of 1941. So I used that number for the class. Not very powerful units, but certainly iconic. I will be extremely dissappointed if we do not get a miniature of this class in Set IV or V.
Clemson class
USS Edsall
USS Pope
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| Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:28 am |
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SOCCEROO FEVER
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beautiful
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| Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:15 am |
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| Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:53 pm |
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AHF Bronze-Rated Trader
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I thought they were ugly when I was young, but they grow on you with age. I wonder why? 
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| Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:08 pm |
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AHF Bronze-Rated Trader
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Locked and loaded.
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| Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:31 am |
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