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Post subject: 100 Point Long Lance Fleet
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I posted the below in response to another thread on a Japanese fleet build. As I would like some more feedback I thought I'd repost as a new topic. My build (so far) is:
Aoba 20
Oi (x2) 34
Yahagi 14
This leaves 32 points to divide up amongst (3) destroyers, depending on what you anticpate your enemy bringing.
My current build has 2 Akitsukis and a Shigure for AA and smoke, respectivly.
The three destroyers + Yahagi give you a +3 to Aoba's flag 2 for innititive.
Use the two Oi's SAs Torpedo Run to flare out the Oi's and your most effective DDs adjacent to the Aoba so as to get max use from it's SA Aggressive Tactics. This can give you a significant boost to your torpedoe output for a single turn (guns too, I suppose...)
SWARBS replied that he thought this an "interesting" build with its main weakness being an "air-heavy" opponent.
Regarding that last comment, how "air-heavy" can one make a 100 point build (within the basic rules)?
And further, I thought the Aki's SA (giving two AA attacks per turn) might help compensate for this weakness. Are they inadequate for this task?
Is the danger that the air wing will eliminate the fleet before it can close to use its torpedoes or claim objectives?
(Please forgive the newb questions... but if the anchor fits I must wear it.)
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 Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:16 pm |
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Tora Tora Tora
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The 'suki's 2 AA5 attacks are hit and miss, though on occasion they have pulled stellar service for me. 100 points air-heavy is not common but it does happen. Air is often a pure crap-shoot at that level. Lastly, when people say 'I'll just bring X and you'll get destroyed' bear in mind that they're getting to see your fleet and build the perfect counter. In a real game they won't have a clue what you're bringing until you set them up...
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| Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:23 pm |
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What do you think of the build (and its basic concept) itself?
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| Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:31 pm |
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Tora Tora Tora
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It's a standard 'kill or die' build. you'll either hit your torp rolls and blast him out of the water or you won't, in which case you die. Pretty solid example of it's type too.
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| Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:33 pm |
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Tora Tora Tora
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Oh, and beware ER ships with it, if they smash your CA's before you close you're in trouble.
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| Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:35 pm |
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| Duck Crusader wrote: | | Pretty solid example of it's type too. |
LOL. We aims to please...
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| Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:48 pm |
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I'd drop Aoba for Nachi, pair an Akitsuki with each Oi and spend the remaining 13 points on an I19 or an A6M2+A6M5 if I'm worried about air. Having +5 init isn't hugely needed at 100 points, +4 should be fine and I think that 'agressive tactics' is occasionally 'suicidal tactics'
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| Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:11 pm |
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Tora Tora Tora
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You'd be kinda right in a normal fleet, but this one's going to be a one-shot wonder most of the time. Get in close and nail 'em, says I.
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| Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:48 pm |
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Nothing but Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash.
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I agree Duck. Torpedo builds come down to rolling sixes anyway, you get more chances at it sometimes if you just rush in. There's no sense in extending a game by maneuvering if you don't actually get more torp chances out of it.
That said, I don't think a fighter or two is a bad idea, but a sub might just be points better off spent on surface torps.
At 100, as far as air goes, you're probably looking at strafing fighters most often, perhaps a PBY or Swordfish (which would be bad for that single sub), and more occasionally something more substantial, but it's reasonable enough to assume that they'll take a BB at 100 points so there can't be that much air.
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| Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:15 pm |
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Alternatively, spend those extra 13 points on one A6M5 and two Kamikazes.
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| Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:26 pm |
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Aoba x2 - 40 points
Oi x2 - 34 Points
Akitsuki x2 - 20 Points
A6M2 - 6 Points
My 3rd generation LL fleet - Initiative +4, Aoba-Oi SA combo for great torpedoes, good AA and ASW. Its about 50/50 but a lot depends on the dice rolls. |
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| Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:45 pm |
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Or the plain nine Isokaze fleet.
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| Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:49 am |
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I don't think 7 units are enough to win.
if you encounter air you will be certainly be blasted ot of the water, if you encounters ubs its the same, you might be better than the average "balanced" fleet, but who builds "balanced" anyways...
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| Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:58 am |
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I'm still not sold on Oi. Sure you get lots of LLs, but very it's vulnerable to air and ER shots. And 17 is a lot to spend on 3 9 3 survivability.
Aoba + Akits can give you 2 LLs from each stratgically placed DD at range 3 - same a an Oi.
How about this:
Aoba (20)
Nachi (19)
2x Akit (20)
Yahagi (14)
Isokaze (11)
I19 (13)
Kamekaze (3)
100 on the button
Nachi gives the best cruiser guns Japan can field, along with LLs. Aoba is the LL force multiplier. Yahagi + Aoba give init bonuses. Winning init means you can get your LLs in the best possible positions. I19 can harrass BBs and may even draw enemy DDs under the guns of Nachi and Aoba. The Kame is filler, but you might get a lucky hit.
Airborne ASW will sink I19, but at least any planes dedicated to this mission will not be attacking your DDs.
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TimK
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| Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:45 pm |
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Tora Tora Tora
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It's not at range that the Oi pays dividends, but to really use it you need Shigures to smoke as you close.
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| Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:04 pm |
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| IJN Fuso wrote: | I'm still not sold on Oi. Sure you get lots of LLs, but very it's vulnerable to air and ER shots. And 17 is a lot to spend on 3 9 3 survivability.
Aoba + Akits can give you 2 LLs from each stratgically placed DD at range 3 - same a an Oi.
How about this:
Aoba (20)
Nachi (19)
2x Akit (20)
Yahagi (14)
Isokaze (11)
I19 (13)
Kamekaze (3)
100 on the button
Nachi gives the best cruiser guns Japan can field, along with LLs. Aoba is the LL force multiplier. Yahagi + Aoba give init bonuses. Winning init means you can get your LLs in the best possible positions. I19 can harrass BBs and may even draw enemy DDs under the guns of Nachi and Aoba. The Kame is filler, but you might get a lucky hit.
Airborne ASW will sink I19, but at least any planes dedicated to this mission will not be attacking your DDs. |
Hey, don't you have an LL fleet taking me on in an online match somewhere? 
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| Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:40 am |
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Indeed.
Sorry - I have been traveling non stop and I thought it was your turn. I missed your last post. Anyway - I placed and rolled init. You're up. but I will be slow to respond again this week.
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TimK
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| Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:55 pm |
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Check Aoba SA...I do not think the aggressive tactics only works if the adjacent ship is i the sector alone....Oi would then be pretty vulnerable to air if it was alone in a sector.
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Aaron
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| Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:52 pm |
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| afilter wrote: | | Check Aoba SA...I do not think the aggressive tactics only works if the adjacent ship is i the sector alone....Oi would then be pretty vulnerable to air if it was alone in a sector. |
Well 'alone' as in, 'without friendly ships'. I did call it 'Suicidal Tactics' earlier
Pretty much anything IJN is vulnerable to air if alone in a sector. I think I'd be more inclined to try to sink Aoba though, get rid of a flag 2 ship and the boosting SA before the surface phase begins.
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| Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:42 pm |
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