Painting advice

?FoG? · **?FoG?**

I'd really like to paint my War at Sea minis. But I have no idea how to get started. I looked through the first couple of pages and found no topics for absolute beginners. I have the space to work on the little buggers, but have no idea what equipment, paint brands or any other info on how to get started. I went to Barnes and Noble to look for a magazine to maybe get me pointed in teh right direction, but nothing popped out. Any chance someone might have posted a beginners thread on here somewhere?

Thanks in advance!
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cealigh the MadScot · **cealigh the MadScot**

Well FoG, be sure to hold yer nose as ya dive in there. Anny hoo. There really isn't a beginners file or thread or what have you. Now there was a thread started recently about tools of the trade where we were incouraged to show pics of our tools IE; paints, knives, modelling putty etc. If you will look closely you will see an assortment of paint brands on our tables. I like a wide variety of brands from Delta's "Ceramcoat" line to Games Workshop's paint lines. I personally like using the Tester's "Model master" line of paints for some things and Valejo brand for others. If you desire to repaint yer mini's I would suggest starting with some good reference material that show colour photos or plates. Or for that matter if you don't know for sure about what colour you should use... Well we have this handy little forum here for just that purpose... I't is always a good Idea to prime yer figs first in any case b4 you start paintin on em. If this is yer first foray into aspect of the hobby, don't be too dissappointed if at first yer ships do not come out the way you had hoped... It takes practice. of course I've seen examples of first timers knock out some really stunning work too...
A suggestion, if you have not already done so I would recommend that you set up a Photobucket account so you have a place to store yer pics and then be able to link them here for all of us to enjoy.
Best o' luck to ya and feel free to ask questions here. That's why we are here.
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Campbjj · **Campbjj**

Citadel paints, nice thin and can easily fill all the little gaps nicely.
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MrKen · **MrKen**

Sometimes you will get minis with cast marks still on them. If your pieces still have them removing them will improve them as much as a really good paint job. In fact, not removing them will ruin a really good paint job.

Next, wash them in warm water with some mild detergent. You want to get all the release agents and oils from all the fingers that have touched the piece, off the models. I have an old toothbrush I use to help get into the tight places. Here in Denver I can dry them by laying stuff on a soft cloth for a few minutes, some places they might not dry after a week, you need to judge this.

I don't know about the priming part as I think they would already be primed but I defer to those who actually know, but I will attest to how important this step is if not done.

Your paints, ehh, I don't really care all that much but there is a difference. The more expensive paint has more pigment and more finely ground pigments. The cheap stuff is more medium, the stuff that suspends the pigments and this means sometimes you need more coats to cover, more coats of paint hides details. Can make a big difference. Don't buy your paints by the quart or gallon though, save that stuff for the terrain. Smile

Paint can and some times must be diluted. Generally I use water, experience will tell you just how much you will need. There are thinning agents out there you can use for effects. Again, experience and ability will be the judge on their use.

Next, paint brushes. Believe it or not, the quality of your brushes is important. A cheap brush will ruin your work at times. Generally when you are working on your Yorktown or Bismark. Hairs will flow nicely onto your work and just ruin the finish, removing it ruins it further. Get nice brushes. You will need a variety of brushes to compliment the painting you do. Don't be tempted by the low cost of a brush, a good brush will last a long time. I have brushes that are forty years old and are still in very good condition.

Lighting. You need good lighting. I use a light with a large magnifying glass built in. Yes it sometimes gets in the way, but without it I am painting something that is almost unseeable.

Last but not least, patience. Go as slow as you need to go to create a masterpiece, all the time. Go fast and you are on your own. And your mini will be relegated to the back of your closet as you will be embarrassed to show it, especially here next to some of the really excellent work you will see displayed. I suggest you go into the forum and go back a ways and look at the stuff already posted. You will see just how good you can get. I always thought there is less talent in painting and more of an ability to manipulate the tools. I really am not that good of a painter though. lol But I do have a fairly good technique.

cealigh the MadScot · **cealigh the MadScot**

cealigh the MadScot · **cealigh the MadScot**

seisen · **seisen**

Hey you got some great advise going... not much more to say. You have one of THE BEST modeling groups here on this forum with a mirriad of styles and techniques. No single one is better than the other and it is often best to incorporate the techniques and advise from all here...I certainly do! Dont hesitate to ask any one of us questions about what you want to do or what you are considering, send PM's too, everyone here is more than happy to help.

Sincerely,

Chris Hernandez
(aka seisen)
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MrKen · **MrKen**

Brought over from another thread but was good advice.

seisen

AHF Bronze-Rated Trader

Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 387

Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:40 am Post subject: Painters, CHANGE YOUR WATER...

Hey guys,

This is going to sound stupid or hilarious, which one depends on each of you I guess.

My friend and well known figures painter Mr. Al Troutwine (Games Workshop) was recently diagnosed with acute influenza caused by Legionella pneumophila. This is the first step to Legionnaires' Disease which can develop into bad pneumonia. He lives close to me here in the midwest USA. Anyway, he received the bacteria from the stagnant water he had been using to clean his brushes with. Yeah I know, its almost unbelievable, but it can happen. I guess there is a slight increase in its frequency here in the midwest with the heat and humidity we are facing this summer. Alan is alright, like most of us he has a healthy immune system and is recovering quickly.

I have since come down with a case of bronchitis (yeah in summer I know) from the same bacteria due to the same damn thing. So I shall do my good deed for this day and encourage my fellow painters to please CLEAN YOUR PAINTING WATER. Don’t use water that has been stagnant for more than 12 hours. If you are painting and you see a subtle milky film on your brushes coming from the water... bad idea to continue using it. It wont hurt to rinse your brushes in warm soapy water either. Some of us use our fingers to pull our brushes to a point after cleaning them and this is how the bacteria gets transferred...it was on our fingers and we wipe our mouths, or rub our eyes, etc. etc. Look I’m no "Mr. Rogers", but please change your brush water.

Thanks,

Chris Hernandez
(aka seisen)

?FoG? · **?FoG?**

Awesome awesome information. Thank you sooo much! Keep coming witht at good info if anyone has any.
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cealigh the MadScot · **cealigh the MadScot**

MrKen · **MrKen**

A question by UNC Samuri solicited a response from Seisen reads:

seisen

AHF Bronze-Rated Trader

Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 420

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject:

If you prefer priming with black and dont like pre-white-ing area's that will take yellow, red or orange, you need to find some heavy pigminted paints. If you are a Citadel/Games Workshop painter then I understand your frustration...the citadel yellows tend to be on the thin side, make sure you shake your yellows and greens for a long while before-hand if you use Citadel. Id suggest splurging on some Vallejo or grab some dark yellow Delta Ceramcoat (the cheaper option). They cover black better than anything else, but honestly, if you are painting something in yellow/tan tones overall you should use a white primer... greens, greys, and browns use black primer. I always use black for infantry however... less work that way. Just works for me that way...not that Im the expert here. For my AAM/AAWAS aircraft, I use white as a basecoat regardless of what the aircraft is and what colors it will take. I dont primer my ship figures though, the plastics and vinyl used by WOTC for them is really textured so paint sticks very well...above average for sure...but then again I use Vallejo almost exclusively. For my scratchbuilt ships I do primer them... sheet styrene has a zero abrasive surface so paint tends not to stick to it, just runs off like water sometimes. The AAM tanks though... I have about a 50/50 percentage of getting paint to stick without primer, so I primer them like the aircraft now. Samurai, have you ever tried Humbrol Military Colors on your AAM/AAWAS figures? Ive never used them, so I couldnt say, but there are a lot of GW/Citadel painters around here that do use them... quite a bit! Ive never seen them sold around here...maybe Hobbytown USA?

panzerpainter · **panzerpainter**

This may be redundant, but I just gave a basic outline for wet-brushing, damp-brushing, and dry-brushing on another thread, so I decided to copy-paste it here. I simply cant explain everything in my head, as it is way to jumbled up there, and I tend to "over-talk" and end up rambling like an idiot.
======================================

#1 - Thier is no substitute for your own trial and error. I thought I had this down pat a couple years ago, and looking back at my slightly older work, my new stuff makes them look kinda bad now.
#2 - Half the battle is being able to visualize what colors to use, or using inks over the wrong color paints to create the correct, envisioned color.
#3 a huge amount of colors, brushes, and spar time doesnt hurt.
BUT:
I can tell you these basic tips, the part where rust is talked about is underlined (since that was your original question):
WETBRUSH - Brushes with normal amount of paint = For applying the base color with a wide brush, or fine details with a pin-point brush.
DAMPBRUSH - A brush wetted with paint, then excess paint rubbed off onto a paper towel = for applying a lighter shade of your base coat over the entire vehicle (to get highlighted effect) or use in isolated areas to get the look of rust or wear. For things like rust and wear, this should be done last, after all other details are painted.
DRYBRUSH - A brush dipped in paint, then rubbed onto a paper towel until all traces of paint SEEM to be removed = Applied all over the vehicle for the to bring out the fine highlights like edges and rivets. Use this technique with silver paint on a fine tipped brush to get th elook of wear on tracks, and anywhere that metal rubs. Dry-brushing should never be overdone. You will need to experiment to know when to stop. Whenever you dry-brush, if your brush becomes stiff, you will need to rinse it out, and set it aside. Switch to another brush that is completely dry, or wait for your other brush to dry. ANY traces of water still in the brush will cause smears if you try to drybrush with it. You will need to practice rapid, light pressure brush strokes to get this down.
EXAMPLE:
Paint a tank with dark panzer grey, with a wet brush. Go over it with a damp brush of medium panzer grey. Then go over the entire vehcile with a dampbrush of light grey. Paint treads with dark brown or black wetbrush. Dampbrush a medium brown over this to bring out dirt and rust color, then drybrush over the tracks with silver to bring out the track wear. Lastly, use a dampbrush and make just a few smudges of reddish brown tones and lighter brown tones on the fenders or wherever you want rust to be (rust is best depicted with 2 different shades of brown).
Said example only explains basic color and treads, and does not get into any of the details.
INKS = Thats a whole nother boat, requiring a novel to explain. But I can tell you to make sure your paint under the ink is 100% dry before you ink or you get disaster. Its like reversing my previous method. Instead of applying lighter shades over darker shades, this applies darker shades over lighter shades, and settles the dark colors in the cracks and depressions. But it will alter the overall shade of the paint underneath and requires experimentation. Also, I recommend dry-brushing over areas you have inked, but you must give inked areas EXTRA time. You can not drybrush over inked areas even if they feel dry. You will get hideus smears and ruin the model. Let it set overnight, or under a lamp to harden the ink 100%. I use mostly brown ink (and NOT reddish brown ink - you need TRUE brown tones) and sometimes I use black ink (mostly around treads, under the hull line, barrel ends, and exhaust).
Dont mess around with inks until you have your different brush techniques practiced. After you apply ink, the model may appear ugly, but damp-brushing and drybrushing over it will bring it to life.
EXAMPLE (for ink used as an over-all color). To paint a tank sand, sometimes I paint it cream color, or bone white, then after dry I ink bath it (50% diluted with water) and shake the excess off or dab the excess ink off with a brush. I let them sit overnight, under a lamp. The next day, I dry-brush over it with more cream color or bone white to bring the edges back out. The ink settles in the recessed areas and creates depth and also provides a mottled look to the color., but it also changes the tint of the paint, and if you use the wrong shade ink over a color (or the correct ink over the wrong base color), you will end up with a wierd overall color.
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RMSINSD · **RMSINSD**

I'm curious if anyone has used the Tamiya "Fine Surface Primer" on their metal Naval miniatures, and if so whether they'd recommend it. It comes in white or light grey, and a thin spray on the metal would seem to be a good way to keep from obscuring fine detail. Thanks in advance for any replies!

Jameson · **Jameson**

Silly question:

What exact type/mix of mild detergent solution do you use? It's been ages since my model railway days.
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MrKen · **MrKen**

Hey Jameson, not sure what you are referring to, but I use detergent in two ways. One as a means to get my minis clean prior to to priming them. In this case I will use a squirt of dish soap in my yogurt container. I then use an old tooth brush to scrub the mini.

What I don't use is a drop or two in my water when mixing paint. Over the years I have heard some painters swear by using a drop of dish soap in their water as a wetting agent. Personally I think this as over kill but they swear by it.
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Jameson · **Jameson**

Thanks, I was referring to the detergent before priming.

I should have been more specific.
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weedsrock2 · **weedsrock2**

I have spent several months painting color chips of Vallejo paints on white styrene plastic and then comparing them to the WWII naval color paint chip sets printed by Snyder and Short. It seems a lot of miniature painters like this line of paints, and it is certainly extensive. This project started from a similar list I found on the Internet, but only had some of the Royal Navy colors. The attached .pdf has a color table that matches Vallejo paint colors to official naval colors of the USN, RN, Regia Marina, IJN, and Kreigsmarine. At the end of each nation I also list the 'core colors' for those of you that cannot afford all the colors. I have compared these color chips twice at two week intervals under outdoor sunlight and outdoor overcast to see if I picked the same colors both times. I was pretty close. I don't promise exact matches, but they are as close as I could tell. Be aware that these colors will be darker on a miniature. Most paint references suggest lightening the colors with about 25% white. I leave that up to you. Don't try it with red though - you will get pink! I have given you the colors, but you are on your own to figure out the multitude of camouflage systems used during the war!

Any suggestions or feedback on color choices is appreciated.

Please go to the next post for an updated file!
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weedsrock2 · **weedsrock2**

This is an updated version of the color table with some corrections and some additions to the Kriegsmarine. I don't know how to delete the old version.

Click to download file
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