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| drittal wrote: | I have to agree with Warpite on this. Anytime you build a UK fleet it is a compromise. They are outclassed by almost every nation at every position. Warspite is the best option they have at 100pts, too bad WotC designers felt that a USN cruiser had better torpedo protection.  If you want a great UK fleet you almost have to borrow from commonwealth countries or do some lend/lease for decent aircover. I like playing the brits, but as one of the major countries they have gotten the shaft. BB's with fatal flaw, jammed mount, and lack of TD. Two heavy cruisers with NO secondaries that are outclassed by all other CA's. Their two CL options are they best options they have. ONLY 1 DD IN TWO SETS!!! evidentally the brits had 4 times as many BB's as destroyers. Wait, I lied. The brits have a great sub. not the best but in my top three. Rodney is a great unit, but Slow 1 always bites me in the but at the worst time possible.
I like your build Warspite, although I have very limited luck with Swordfish. I consider them a success if they get one hit before being AA fodder. |
I wasn't disagreeing with Warspite. In fact, I think this build concept is interesting and will give it a try sometime. Was just wondering whether a Beaufighter or two Hurrys might be the best choice for the last 10 points. You hit upon my worry with the Swordfish. They are decent for ASW duty, but tend to get aborted or flamed when attacking capital ships in WAS.
I think the thing that hurts the British side in WAS is that although many of their ships were old and WERE at a disadvantage one-on-one in the actual World War II, they had more of them than any nation except the U.S. after its build-up. For example, Tirpitz might have been able to take on either of the Nelsons, the Queen Elizabeths or the KG V class individually, but it certain couldn't take all of them together. The Queen Elizabeth Class ships were not speedy by World War II standards, but you still didn't want to mess around with a group of 3-4 of them in the Mediterranean. But in point-limited WAS games, the English ships are often caught matched one-on-one against more modern ships. And cruisers, an English strength (they had a lot of them), don't matter as much in WAS as they did historically. That's why I get a kick out of posters worrying about all the U.S. battleships in WAS. They only matter if you can play them, and you're only going to play all of them if you like to play games larger than 500 points. All that said, I still like to play the Commonwealth. |
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 Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:46 pm |
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| drittal wrote: | I have to agree with Warpite on this. Anytime you build a UK fleet it is a compromise. They are outclassed by almost every nation at every position. Warspite is the best option they have at 100pts, too bad WotC designers felt that a USN cruiser had better torpedo protection. If you want a great UK fleet you almost have to borrow from commonwealth countries or do some lend/lease for decent aircover. I like playing the brits, but as one of the major countries they have gotten the shaft. BB's with fatal flaw, jammed mount, and lack of TD. Two heavy cruisers with NO secondaries that are outclassed by all other CA's. Their two CL options are they best options they have. ONLY 1 DD IN TWO SETS!!! evidentally the brits had 4 times as many BB's as destroyers. Wait, I lied. The brits have a great sub. not the best but in my top three. Rodney is a great unit, but Slow 1 always bites me in the but at the worst time possible.
I like your build Warspite, although I have very limited luck with Swordfish. I consider them a success if they get one hit before being AA fodder. |
I treat the lack of secondaries on some of the cruisers as an errata - I have no idea why the designers missed them off.
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| Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:59 pm |
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After being away from the game for a while, I'm finally getting the chance to play again!
So I've been thinking a lot about fleet building lately, and naturally I'm studying the threads in this section. Warspite's build is interesting, but I would be inclined to go with something like this:
Rodney
Javelin x4
Halifax
(100 pts. total)
The Rodney is, of course, the most competitive RN battleship (not to knock the Warspite, which is great for its price point).
4 Jav + Halifax is very strong ASW in a 100 pt. game.
The Javelin's torps are not to be sneezed at, and the four of these can provide more flanking pressure than a single Truc.
4 Javelins also give you enormous smoke screen potential.
The Halifax is effective against most cruisers.
Against heavy bombers -- well, you'll need a bit of luck.
Here are a few options:
-For the sweet initiative bonus, swap a Jav and the Halifax for a Jamaica. Init bonus + smoke may seem counterintuitive, but it's really the best of both worlds.
-For more air options, try swapping a Jav (or two) for a Beaufighter.
-To improve your AA cover, swap all the Javs for 3 Haida/Arunta/Van Galen. Group like so: Rodney/Haida/Van Galen + Haida/Haida/Arunta.
Any comments or criticisms are quite welcome, thanks.
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| Fri May 01, 2009 5:36 am |
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| Fri May 01, 2009 11:27 am |
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Caesar Americanus II Munchkin Wrangler
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You might take a look at my "Stilton Fleet", too, for ideas, althoguh you have some interesting ones over here too.
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| Fri May 08, 2009 12:07 am |
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one hit? now lets not get too ambitious D.
I like this build a lot, warspite is a classic BB that was just made for 100 point games.
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| Fri May 08, 2009 4:33 pm |
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I like the Rodney and 4 Javelin build. It's pretty solid for what it is. The Halifax is ok to pick off a cruiser somewhere.
Rodney can take on anything and has a chance of defeating it. The German ships are good but not indestructible. It was that way in real life also.
Rodney had bigger guns than Bismarck or Tirpitz and probably just as good an armor rating. Rodney also has the distinction of sinking Bismarck as well. 
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| Fri May 08, 2009 4:47 pm |
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not a bad days work that.... thank god for swordfish.
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(TF57... British Pacific Fleet 1944-45)
A swordfish is for life, not just for Bismarck, Littorio, Veneto... or any poor IJN carrier that runs out of Zero's. |
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| Fri May 08, 2009 4:51 pm |
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This was one of my first reads on this forum and my recent purchases reminded my of it.
Considering how enamoured some seem over the new (Flank Speed) Repulse how do you think that unit might effect the above build?
Something like:
Repulse 33
Fencer 14
Swordfish 10
Arunta 7 (because I have her)
Truculent 12
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Total 76
Leaves 24 points for options...
Another Truculent would be 12 point (2 would be 24 for an even 100)
Barracuda the same
So 1 Barracuda and 1 Truculent are also a possibility.
Another option would be a Belfast (14 points) to make up for the loss of a Flagship in Warsprite plus another destroyer (9 or 10 points). I'd probably field a Javelin and play at 99 (or upgrade Arunta to Van Galen for 1 point).
Any thoughts?
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| Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:46 am |
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Assuming a standard objective game, how about:
HMS Rodney
HMS Repulse
HMAS Arunta
Obviously against subs and air, you just have to race for the objectives and hope to live long enough. But Rodney has TD, so that helps. Against battleship builds Rodney can tie down the enemy BB while Repulse romps around and eats up objectives and cruisers
This matches up very neatly against the German equivalent...
Bismarck
Scharnhorst
Karl Galster |
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| Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:57 am |
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Yes, but the "trick" of the previous build seemed to focus on the strength of a BB, the air cover of the Fencer and the ability to place a Destroyer in the same square with the two of them.
Truculent and Swordfish have also been constants in the build.
For purposes of this discussion (and especially and selfishly because I HAVE those pieces) I'd like to keep the discussion aimed at that base build.
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| Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:07 am |
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The problem is Fencer has speed one only so if you group her with Repulse and the Arunta your only surface group won't get into combat.
If you split her out she will be easy prey for enemy aircraft (a 3 Kondor strike will cripple her first turn).
I would dump the Fencer and go with a couple of Fighters to provide air cover instead. Something like
Repulse
Javelin
2 Saumarez
2 Trucs
Halifax
2 Martlets
100 pts.
Strong enough against a BB with the 2 Trucs. assisisting Repulse.
Excellent vs Sub builds with the Trucs. and 3 DD's boosted by Halifax.
OK vs air with the two fighters.
You also have the smoke of the Jav. to increase Repulse's survivability. |
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| Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:32 pm |
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| Bartacus wrote: |
Repulse
Javelin
2 Saumarez
2 Trucs
Halifax
2 Martlets
100 pts.
Strong enough against a BB with the 2 Trucs. assisisting Repulse.
Excellent vs Sub builds with the Trucs. and 3 DD's boosted by Halifax.
OK vs air with the two fighters.
You also have the smoke of the Jav. to increase Repulse's survivability. |
Not a bad build, but the problem with using a small battleship and subs against a large battleship is that the subs have to do 80% of the work. For example, the Repulse should not tangle with a Musashi until the Musashi has been crippled by the subs; but just two subs will probably fail at this. The Saumarez's BB Killer SA might help, but I think that a better strategy is to include more subs for the anti-BB role, and redefine the Repulse's role to that of a cruiser and destroyer killer. Maybe something like this:
1x HMS Repulse (33)
1x HMCS Haida (7)
4x HMS Truculents (48)
2x Marlets (12)
Personally, I would want an initiative bonus with that many subs; so I would swap the Repulse for a Jamaica with additional destroyers and fighters; but that is probably altering your build a little too much. |
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| Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:51 pm |
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Posts: 110
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Post subject: Re: The ideal Royal Navy 100 points?
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| 'Warspite' wrote: | I've been giving some thought to an ideal Royal Navy 100-point hand.
I've come up with this:
HMS Warspite - 46 pts
HMS Fencer - 14 pts
Hr Ms Van Galen - 8 pts
HMS Truculent - 12 pts
Swordfish - 10 pts
=90pts
Tactics: the three warships stay together and always move in the same square. They will be slower because of Fencer's move of 'one' so I'd aim for the middle objective if you are playing with objectives. Plough into that slow and steady and then either go for an untouched left or right objective or else seek and destroy to get the points.
Van Galen's SA means all three ships can remain in the same square. Fencer's Fighter Cover ranges out to three squares so it is vital that Truculent remains within the three squares umbrella while the enemy still has airborne ASW. Once airborne ASW is written down Truculent can free hunt or orbit the main group as an ASW asset herself.
If you play offensive keep the two Swordfish well in hand. I'd favour staying within three squares of Warspite/Fencer/Van Galen and only flying both when the land-based second is available - on alternate moves. If attacked by a U-boat use the Fencer's Swordfish in ASW role, again within the three square Fighter Cover umbrella.
Enemy submarines can be attacked by Truculent, Van Galen or the Swordfish while Warspite's triple battery is enough to keep two enemy cruisers occupied at the same time and probably vital one of them....
Another variation would be to sacrifice Truculent for more air or maybe some more destroyers. One could almost squeeze a cruiser @13pts (say cruiser and Beaufighter) but keep the cruiser in the three square Fighter Cover umbrella early in the game - perhaps to run ahead and grab an objective. |
Gentlemen, I understand and appreciate the wisdom of your suggestions but my intent was to explore Warsprite's initial fleet above modified by the Repulse for Warsprite subtitution.
The "spirit" of this build seems to be successful deployment of HMS Fencer's anti-air cover but it also offers a unique challenge because of Fencer's speed (1).
So, in keeping with the above suggestions for more "ships" (and limited by what I have on hand) how does this build look to you?
Repulse 33
Fencer 14
Swordfish 10
Van Galen 8
Truculent 12
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Total 77
Leaves 23 points for options...
With the options being the additon of Javelin and Belfast (making for 100 points).
The main difference would be in deployment, with Fencer and Van Galen in the same square as Javelin (giving possible smoke cover) while Repulse and Belfast move toward an objective in a more "traditional" role (but still under Fencer's air cover).
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| Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:00 pm |
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| What about the original build, but dump the Van Galen for an Arunta, toss a Beaufighter on the landbase, and upgrade the Fencer's Swordfish to a Barracuda? It has pretty much everything the original build has, but an every round attack aircraft that's less likely to get splashed/aborted. |
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| Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:15 pm |
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Dr. Who WhatNow?
Posts: 430
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Tried the
Repulse 33
Fencer 14
Swordfish 10
Van Galen 8
Truculent 12
Plus Belfast Javelin fleet in a 100 point tourney tonight.
Beat a Musashi Luca Tarigo x2 U-66 build
With only Belfast and Repulse dying and taking out all the enemy.
Last Game I used it against Yamashiro Isokaze x2 Akisuki x2
Ended up with Truculent Repulse dmg 3 and Swordfish alive and no one left on the map. Having Range 2 torps off the BC helped but I was sweating the LL shots. Luckily he never got a hit on the Repulse with one.
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| Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:25 am |
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| Stormhawk4107 wrote: | Tried the
Repulse 33
Fencer 14
Swordfish 10
Van Galen 8
Truculent 12
Plus Belfast Javelin fleet in a 100 point tourney tonight.
Beat a Musashi Luca Tarigo x2 U-66 build
With only Belfast and Repulse dying and taking out all the enemy.
Last Game I used it against Yamashiro Isokaze x2 Akisuki x2
Ended up with Truculent Repulse dmg 3 and Swordfish alive and no one left on the map. Having Range 2 torps off the BC helped but I was sweating the LL shots. Luckily he never got a hit on the Repulse with one. |
Well done that man!
Rule Britannia! (waves flag as my canoe sinks beneath my feet).
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| Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:56 am |
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| Inspiring Lieutenant wrote: | | Bartacus wrote: |
Repulse
Javelin
2 Saumarez
2 Trucs
Halifax
2 Martlets
100 pts.
Strong enough against a BB with the 2 Trucs. assisisting Repulse.
Excellent vs Sub builds with the Trucs. and 3 DD's boosted by Halifax.
OK vs air with the two fighters.
You also have the smoke of the Jav. to increase Repulse's survivability. |
Not a bad build, but the problem with using a small battleship and subs against a large battleship is that the subs have to do 80% of the work. For example, the Repulse should not tangle with a Musashi until the Musashi has been crippled by the subs; but just two subs will probably fail at this. The Saumarez's BB Killer SA might help, but I think that a better strategy is to include more subs for the anti-BB role, and redefine the Repulse's role to that of a cruiser and destroyer killer. Maybe something like this:
1x HMS Repulse (33)
1x HMCS Haida (7)
4x HMS Truculents (48)
2x Marlets (12)
Personally, I would want an initiative bonus with that many subs; so I would swap the Repulse for a Jamaica with additional destroyers and fighters; but that is probably altering your build a little too much. |
Agree that's potentially a stronger build versus Musashi but I'm looking for a nice balance in my fleets.
That said you've tweaked my interest now so I'm going to try both fleets out against the Musashi build and see how it plays out. I do like the greater objective grabbing power in my fleet, might balance things out more than it may seem at first site. |
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| Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:34 pm |
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Posts: 34
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Post subject: Re: The ideal Royal Navy 100 points?
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| 'Warspite' wrote: | I've been giving some thought to an ideal Royal Navy 100-point hand.
I've come up with this:
HMS Warspite - 46 pts
HMS Fencer - 14 pts
Hr Ms Van Galen - 8 pts
HMS Truculent - 12 pts
Swordfish - 10 pts
=90pts
The extra 10pts are then spent either offensively or defensively
Offensive - another Swordfish
Defensive - two Sea Hurricanes @ 5pts and both based ashore, one flying on each alternate move.
Tactics: the three warships stay together and always move in the same square. They will be slower because of Fencer's move of 'one' so I'd aim for the middle objective if you are playing with objectives. Plough into that slow and steady and then either go for an untouched left or right objective or else seek and destroy to get the points.
Van Galen's SA means all three ships can remain in the same square. Fencer's Fighter Cover ranges out to three squares so it is vital that Truculent remains within the three squares umbrella while the enemy still has airborne ASW. Once airborne ASW is written down Truculent can free hunt or orbit the main group as an ASW asset herself.
If you play offensive keep the two Swordfish well in hand. I'd favour staying within three squares of Warspite/Fencer/Van Galen and only flying both when the land-based second is available - on alternate moves. If attacked by a U-boat use the Fencer's Swordfish in ASW role, again within the three square Fighter Cover umbrella.
Enemy submarines can be attacked by Truculent, Van Galen or the Swordfish while Warspite's triple battery is enough to keep two enemy cruisers occupied at the same time and probably vital one of them.
Now if the other player gets familiar with this hand then the third variation is to use the spare 10 points for a 9pt Beaufighter every once in a while and play at 99pts.
Another variation would be to sacrifice Truculent for more air or maybe some more destroyers. One could almost squeeze a cruiser @13pts (say cruiser and Beaufighter) but keep the cruiser in the three square Fighter Cover umbrella early in the game - perhaps to run ahead and grab an objective.
Thoughts anyone? |
I think you should always use hurricanes, becsuse with out them you offensive air will be shot down quickly.
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| Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:24 pm |
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F*** all these guntoting hip gangster wannabes
Posts: 443
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Enough with the Hurricanes, especially when you have the far better Martlets when using the RN. The Sea Hurricanes were a joike to begin with and now are so usless they become space fillers that are always shot down turn 1 in EVERY game I have seen/played.
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Sets: Not bad for a starter...
Base: 35/64 Total: 44
Task Force: 32/60 Total: 48
Flank Speed: 31/40 Total: 48
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| Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:40 pm |
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