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Hellcat Commander
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Post subject: BMW R75 - A Second Look
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Since early war is around the corner...this blitzkreig unit is quite an amazing piece. I played a game against my son and took one of these to fill in a 5 point need in my army... and WOW! What a unit.
A 3/3 defense, better than a half track on armor
8 / 6 vs Infantry
Close Assault 4
Speed 5
for a measy 5 Point!
If ever there was a unit that is broken, it is this one. For now, it is a heck of a pwer house for 5 points. I might be rounding out my armies with a couple of these more often.
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 Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:20 am |
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If you think its's good by itself, you should see what's it like when you use it to spawn a Hero! (5 SPD - think about it...)
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| Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:50 am |
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I prefer the old one which had CA6 
And if you include High Gear and subtract Thin Wheels (bad bad ability )...
I don't think the unit is broken, its just bad if you forget to bring your own infantry to go with your tanks.
And being able to spawn heros - its not the fault of the BMW...
The unit is quite balanced with only having 3/3 defence.
Its just THE counter against the Sherman Swarm...
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| Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:28 am |
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Post subject: Re: BMW R75 - A Second Look
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| Snippersly wrote: |
A 3/3 defense, better than a half track on armor
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Well, that's not entirely true: A half track is a vehicle and the BMW is a soldier unit. Therefore the latter is much more vulnerable to fire from (regular) soldiers than the former. Apart from that I agree with you that it's a very good unit, but since they changed the CA value from 6 to 4, I don't think it's broken anymore.
Do you play with the expanded rules as well? It's a superb unit for creating enfilade fire situations! |
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| Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:31 am |
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"My dear general, the war can now only be won by the politicians." Von Rundstedt to Kurt Meyer.
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I've started work on an early war scenario involving the LAH's recon batalion. BMWs, 8 wheeled cars, kubelwagen and sdkfz 222...pitched against the dutch defending keys bridges in holland. 
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| Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:20 am |
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| general Hoth wrote: | | I've started work on an early war scenario involving the LAH's recon batalion. BMWs, 8 wheeled cars, kubelwagen and sdkfz 222...pitched against the dutch defending keys bridges in holland. |
Cool! I really enjoy early war stuff too. I don't know somehow it appeals even more to me than all the heavier later war equipment.
Since we don't have any Dutch troops (yet), may I suggest you use Romanian proxies? We basically had the same uniforms! (The Romanian anti-tank grenadier might just as well have been a Dutch soldier). |
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| Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:32 am |
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"My dear general, the war can now only be won by the politicians." Von Rundstedt to Kurt Meyer.
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| boersma8 wrote: | | general Hoth wrote: | | I've started work on an early war scenario involving the LAH's recon batalion. BMWs, 8 wheeled cars, kubelwagen and sdkfz 222...pitched against the dutch defending keys bridges in holland. |
Cool! I really enjoy early war stuff too. I don't know somehow it appeals even more to me than all the heavier later war equipment.
Since we don't have any Dutch troops (yet), may I suggest you use Romanian proxies? We basically had the same uniforms! (The Romanian anti-tank grenadier might just as well have been a Dutch soldier). |
Good idea!
I will do.
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| Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:49 pm |
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Are Early War games going to be tipped even more in favor of infantry with all those low DEF vehicles? I mean, if you can CA a Panzer IV or a Sherman, a Kubelwagon is going to be mincemeat.
I guess what I'm really asking, since I'm less familiar, historically, with the Early War units, is: What will the flavor of game play/scenarios in Early War be like and is it closer or further from history than the Mid-War and Late War gameplay?
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| Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:29 pm |
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The early war vehicles are way cheaper than the later units. So you can bring more. In a recent game I basically killed a Jagdtiger + change with Engineers in Jeeps and basic infantry.
The balance will be there, but don't epect a panzerjäger I be a serious threat to a KV or IS (or even T-34).
Early war is basically a nod to the historical gamers crowd - and the unit selection already known makes us "non" powergamers very happy...
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| Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:48 pm |
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Posts: 262
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| Richter von Manthofen wrote: | The early war vehicles are way cheaper than the later units. So you can bring more. In a recent game I basically killed a Jagdtiger + change with Engineers in Jeeps and basic infantry.
The balance will be there, but don't epect a panzerjäger I be a serious threat to a KV or IS (or even T-34).
Early war is basically a nod to the historical gamers crowd - and the unit selection already known makes us "non" powergamers very happy... |
Thanks RVM
I don't think I asked my questions clearly enough/in context.
As an historical gamer only, will the Early War AFVs play any decisive role in winning games, or will they be overwhelmed/overpowered by infantry, and whichever way it plays out, will that be closer to the historical situation than what we have now, or further from it?
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| Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:51 pm |
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| Bean965 wrote: | | Richter von Manthofen wrote: | The early war vehicles are way cheaper than the later units. So you can bring more. In a recent game I basically killed a Jagdtiger + change with Engineers in Jeeps and basic infantry.
The balance will be there, but don't epect a panzerjäger I be a serious threat to a KV or IS (or even T-34).
Early war is basically a nod to the historical gamers crowd - and the unit selection already known makes us "non" powergamers very happy... |
Thanks RVM
I don't think I asked my questions clearly enough/in context.
As an historical gamer only, will the Early War AFVs play any decisive role in winning games, or will they be overwhelmed/overpowered by infantry, and whichever way it plays out, will that be closer to the historical situation than what we have now, or further from it? |
I would expect it will play out more or less the same, but only time will tell. Suppose the Schuetzen infantry will spice up the accompanying armour somewhat. I'm basically just into it, because I want to be able to play early war battles too and that's a bit hard with such basic units as Panzer I, II, French plane, French gun, Polish AT gun, Polish officer, Polish MG, Russian fighter, Russian AA etc. missing so far (of course you can always use proxies, but it's just not the same...). Glad we'll be getting most of these now! |
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| Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:37 pm |
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Moderator (here to help you!)
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If you can get 6 tanks instead of 1 they can shoots 6 times more on infantry which in turn usally has to CA vehicle....
I firmly believe the light tanks will find their place.
if your enemy brings an armored car which eats infantry, you probably will counter with a light panzer which can attack the AC from a distance.
Definitly light tanks will find their place in EARLY games.
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Lieber eine flotte Rote als die rote Flotte! |
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| Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:12 pm |
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"Earn This."
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Before the revision the BMW was terribly broken. Running around willy-nilly spawning heroes and tearing up Armored Cars and Light Tanks and even threatening disrupted Shermans...
The change to CA 4 makes it just fine now IMO.
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| Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:16 pm |
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Posts: 262
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| Richter von Manthofen wrote: | If you can get 6 tanks instead of 1 they can shoots 6 times more on infantry which in turn usally has to CA vehicle....
I firmly believe the light tanks will find their place.
if your enemy brings an armored car which eats infantry, you probably will counter with a light panzer which can attack the AC from a distance.
Definitly light tanks will find their place in EARLY games. |
COOL! I'm getting excited now!
I'm putting in an early "order" to all of you - I'll be in the market for a set of the Early War stat cards
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| Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:24 pm |
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I think Snippersly is concerned because so many early war vehicles will have AC 2 or 3 that they will be more susceptible to BMW abuse than later war vehicles which typically have thicker armor. A vehicle with armor 2 has a lot to fear from a motorcycle with CA 4.
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| Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:05 am |
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| Thuddeus wrote: | | I think Snippersly is concerned because so many early war vehicles will have AC 2 or 3 that they will be more susceptible to BMW abuse than later war vehicles which typically have thicker armor. A vehicle with armor 2 has a lot to fear from a motorcycle with CA 4. |
It's mostly the German tanks that have such light armour (typically the French ones are a bit better for example). I don't think the German tanks will have much to fear from the BMW and besides, as I said before, I guess the Schuetzen infantry will toughen them up a little...... |
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| Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:48 am |
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Moderator (here to help you!)
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Th BMW is a very controversial unit
- some think (with good reason) that CA 6 made it an broken unit
Other did not mind (also with some reason) that this did not matter so much.
BMW is one main reason I did NOT adopt the Revision as given to my home games...
IMHO they revised too much that was not broken (most year changes for example, renaming some abilities,...) Other changes were just necessary and in most cases I follow it with relief.
Some issues were NOT solved (in a way it pleases me )
BTW I don't think the revision was a WOTC driven thing, I think the main power behind was our "behated" M2A0.
Guys give the man the credit he deserves...
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| Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:56 am |
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