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Nothing but Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash.
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Post subject: State of DR: The ships
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Neutral:
BB 1 Spain
B 1 Nor.
Central Powers:
5 BB 4Ger, 1A-H
4 BC 4 Ger
3 B 1Ger, 2A-H
2 AC 1Ger, 1A-H
1 C 1A-H
1 CL 2Ger
Entente:
7 BB 5UK, 1It, 1Fr
2 BC 1UK, 1Jap
11 B 7UK, 1It, 2Rus, 1Gr
6 AC 2It, 2Fr, 1Jap, 1Gr
2 C 1UK, 1Jap
2 CL 1UK, 1Rus
So, to play-test the game, what do we need? For capital ships, we're pretty well set, though why we don't have most of the British BC's I don't know, and I'm sure we could do another one at least to fill that slight deficiency. Perhaps another cruiser of each type for the Central Powers would be nice, I think two of each rough classification would be a boon to any testing. Finally, and obviously are the hard ones, and the big decisions. First, destroyers, a few types from each side, preferably Germany/UK so at least the two major nations have full fleet capability. Second, we need to decide soonish whether we want subs or aircraft to be a part of the Beta version of the game.
So, here's some goals (feedback wanted):
Central Powers - 1 AC, 1 C, 1 CL, 2 DD or TB
Entente Powers - 1 BC, 2 DD or TB
I'll start a little digging too, I'm not sure I remember how (or if) we decided destroyers should work (one per card, many per card, hull points), and I'll see if we have any ship cards started that come close to matching the goals above. Also, a question, can I start locking up some threads that have ships up in the stickies? I think it might help a bit with the getting up to steam thing.
After not seeing them for a while, I confess to being startled at just how nice these cards are, they've got a real professional feel and look snazzy to boot.
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 Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:06 am |
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Nothing but Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash.
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| Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:34 pm |
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Posts: 2185
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I concur with your above evaluation, these additions would be a boon to playtesting.
Personally (on the DD issue) I think DD's in WWI would be better represented as squadrons rather than as individuals, but that is only my opinion.
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Gaming for 36 Years.
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| Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:35 pm |
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That would solve many issues. I can't remember what the discussions were like last time this came up, but I would love to have DDs as squadrons. How many would that be (per squadron)?
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My new blog, specialised in the military equipment of Greece (1821-today). |
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| Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:55 pm |
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Nothing but Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash.
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I think I'd vote for 2 per unit, though perhaps it could be more than that, and I agree that this is the way I'd like to go.
I know Jesse, however, and a bunch of others liked the single ship, single card method much better the last time we talked about it.
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| Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:15 pm |
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Illuminated Insanity
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| swarbs wrote: | I think I'd vote for 2 per unit, though perhaps it could be more than that, and I agree that this is the way I'd like to go.
I know Jesse, however, and a bunch of others liked the single ship, single card method much better the last time we talked about it. |
After play testing I could go either way for various reasons, each has its benefits.
As for number of ships, I think someone said that it was standard to have 4. Don't know if that is a historical number or what.
Over at TMP other games have squads of 4, but only base 2 to represent 4 ships.
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Always Flying. Always Fighting. RIP JIMMY.
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| Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:57 pm |
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Illuminated Insanity
Posts: 4537
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Post subject:
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| swarbs wrote: | I think I'd vote for 2 per unit, though perhaps it could be more than that, and I agree that this is the way I'd like to go.
I know Jesse, however, and a bunch of others liked the single ship, single card method much better the last time we talked about it. |
After play testing I could go either way for various reasons, each has its benefits.
As for number of ships, I think someone said that it was standard to have 4. Don't know if that is a historical number or what.
Over at TMP other games have squads of 4, but only base 2 to represent 4 ships.
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Always Flying. Always Fighting. RIP JIMMY.
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| Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:57 pm |
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Perhaps the amount of DD's could be flexible, say up to 6 DD's could form a squadron. Casualties could be marked on the squadron on paper or, the way I'd suggest, with a small D6 placed near the squadron of DD's. I'm working on some ideas now on how squadrons will work in conjunction with Def Arm. Still Iffy right now. I'll come back to this soon.
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Gaming for 36 Years.
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| Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:11 pm |
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In my opinion destroyers should be just like MTBs in WAS. One card that represents a squadron, but works just like any other ship (vital it and you killed it).
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My new blog, specialised in the military equipment of Greece (1821-today). |
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| Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:30 pm |
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Nothing but Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash.
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Only problem I see is if the number of ships gets really high there could be a problem with vitaling a unit that represents 4 or more ships. The other problem is 'aborting' a unit with the Def. Armament roll. Aborting one or two DD's sounds ok, but aborting four sounds excessive.
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| Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:20 am |
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Illuminated Insanity
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| swarbs wrote: | | Only problem I see is if the number of ships gets really high there could be a problem with vitaling a unit that represents 4 or more ships. The other problem is 'aborting' a unit with the Def. Armament roll. Aborting one or two DD's sounds ok, but aborting four sounds excessive. |
could put a little die next to it. 
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Always Flying. Always Fighting. RIP JIMMY.
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| Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:02 am |
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To mark casualties is what I meant. At SETTS we use little die to mark hits. A die with a one showing marks one hit, a two marks two hits, etc. etc.
It works for us.
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Gaming for 36 Years.
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| Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:45 pm |
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One ship, one card. Except for MTBs and aircraft.
What are the reasons for using a squadron card
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Eric
- "Think you used enough dynamite there Butch?" |
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| Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:14 pm |
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| ehenry0623 wrote: | One ship, one card. Except for MTBs and aircraft.
What are the reasons for using a squadron card |
as I have said about a year ago, I don't see why we can not have an option for both since there are good reasons for both squads and individuals.
Only thing stopping you is your game group.
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Always Flying. Always Fighting. RIP JIMMY.
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| Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:24 pm |
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so what are good reasons
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Eric
- "Think you used enough dynamite there Butch?" |
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| Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:00 am |
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My reasons for wanting Squadrons or Half Squadrons in DR are.
1) Historically, it is how they were deployed and fought in engagements such as "Dogger Bank" and "Jutland".
2) Clutter, try putting 12 Destroyers (6 friendly, 6 enemy), facing various directions into the same sector and make sense out of it.
3) Tactics, this was the age of the "Dreadnought", and "Torpedoe Boots and Torpedo Boat "Destroyers"" were used in groups to A: disrupt the enemy battleline by torpedo attack or a threatened torpedo attack, B: to counter the enemy when he tries A above or C: to cover your battleline when it withdraws (smoke, act as a rearguard).
4) Communication, Done by such things as flags and signal lamps (Much easier to communicate when the ships being signalled stays within close proximity of the signaller)
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Gaming for 36 Years.
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| Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:30 pm |
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| lotharlutjens wrote: | My reasons for wanting Squadrons or Half Squadrons in DR are.
1) Historically, it is how they were deployed and fought in engagements such as "Dogger Bank" and "Jutland".
2) Clutter, try putting 12 Destroyers (6 friendly, 6 enemy), facing various directions into the same sector and make sense out of it.
3) Tactics, this was the age of the "Dreadnought", and "Torpedoe Boots and Torpedo Boat "Destroyers"" were used in groups to A: disrupt the enemy battleline by torpedo attack or a threatened torpedo attack, B: to counter the enemy when he tries A above or C: to cover your battleline when it withdraws (smoke, act as a rearguard).
4) Communication, Done by such things as flags and signal lamps (Much easier to communicate when the ships being signalled stays within close proximity of the signaller) |
1. Sure. But this is also true of battleships. Since the argument is not unique to destroyers i don't think it can be fairly applied here.
2. Yeah, i got nothing. Is it enough to warrant squadrons or divisions?
3. True. But these tactics could be applied regardless of how the ships are organized.
4. Also true, but again, not unique to destroyers.
2, by itself, is a fairly compelling argument. If we go forward with groups i hope we keep them at two max. And what's the proper term squadron or division
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Eric
- "Think you used enough dynamite there Butch?" |
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| Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:49 pm |
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I've got some Ideas where other ships would benefit by being adjacent, or in the same sector as an appropriate Flagship they just haven't been completely developed as of yet, meaning I have some general ideas but am not sure of the specifics just yet.
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Gaming for 36 Years.
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| Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:45 pm |
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Illuminated Insanity
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I have not come across an exact number.
But just about every naval game that does include destroyer squadrons represents them at 4. Age of Dreadnought has you base them individually, but I believe still makes use squadrons, I will have to look up in my rule book.
Most books I have read describe destroyer squadrons with multiple destroyer, 4, 5, 6, etc.
Thus far the only time I have came across 2 destroyers as a squadron is with the Austrian navy which sent to destroyers out on patrol.
Though I am certain there are far more cases of 2 destroyer squadrons.
All that has to be done for what ever number you want in your game is multiply by 2 or 4 for the cost.
I R Gooder in math.
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Always Flying. Always Fighting. RIP JIMMY.
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| Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:48 pm |
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Yeah i've seen squadrons applied to groups of 3 or 4.
I think the correct term for two ships is division; needs more research...
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Eric
- "Think you used enough dynamite there Butch?" |
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| Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:44 pm |
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