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Posts: 59
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Post subject: 100pt Italian Flex Build
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An attempt to make the VV a viable threat...
1x Vittorio Veneto
1x Eugenio di Savoia
1x Luca Tarigo
1x Pegaso
1x C 202 Folgore
1x Re. 2001 CB
1x Ju-87 R2 Picchiatelli
49+13+8+6+5+11+8 = 100
So besides the max point value for the game, a couple key units have the ability to flex their role depending on opponent's fleet/set-up. Obviously VV provides most of the muscle. Savoia adjusts the set-up with Set The Screen: getting a smoke screen laying Tarigo out in front of the VV, making a quick run at a side objective accompanying Pegaso, or setting up Pegaso to take on a lurking sub. Savoia also can make multiple shots at destroyers. Tarigo is there to escort the VV and mitigate threats with smoke screeneither thru blocking LOS or providing cover. Pegaso not only operates as anti-sub but also has range 2 torpedo threat. The aircraft selection provides either two bomb attacks with an escort or two anti-aircraft attacks and a press the atttack dive bomber. |
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 Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:49 am |
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Nothing but Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash.
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I think your surface mix sounds pretty good, but in the air I'd be tempted to leave it as just fighters. Perhaps take three 202's and add an Ambra? Or one 202 and two Ambras. Or leave out the air all together in favor of four more Pegasos (or four MTB's). I think a swarm of something is always a bit more effective than a few of everything.
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| Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:34 pm |
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Dr. Communazi, Ph.D
Posts: 1059
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| swarbs wrote: | | I think your surface mix sounds pretty good, but in the air I'd be tempted to leave it as just fighters. Perhaps take three 202's and add an Ambra? Or one 202 and two Ambras. Or leave out the air all together in favor of four more Pegasos (or four MTB's). I think a swarm of something is always a bit more effective than a few of everything. |
How about 2 202s and one Re.2001, which gives you the "all fighter" option or two fighters and a dive bomber, as the need arises.
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| Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:42 pm |
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Posts: 806
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| Planetary Eulogy wrote: | | swarbs wrote: | | I think your surface mix sounds pretty good, but in the air I'd be tempted to leave it as just fighters. Perhaps take three 202's and add an Ambra? Or one 202 and two Ambras. Or leave out the air all together in favor of four more Pegasos (or four MTB's). I think a swarm of something is always a bit more effective than a few of everything. |
How about 2 202s and one Re.2001, which gives you the "all fighter" option or two fighters and a dive bomber, as the need arises. |
Which leaves you 3 points of wiggle room... which doesn't buy you a lot. Maybe turn the Pegaso into a Luca or the Eugenio into a Gorizia. |
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| Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:24 pm |
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Dr. Communazi, Ph.D
Posts: 1059
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| Asbestos wrote: | | Planetary Eulogy wrote: | | swarbs wrote: | | I think your surface mix sounds pretty good, but in the air I'd be tempted to leave it as just fighters. Perhaps take three 202's and add an Ambra? Or one 202 and two Ambras. Or leave out the air all together in favor of four more Pegasos (or four MTB's). I think a swarm of something is always a bit more effective than a few of everything. |
How about 2 202s and one Re.2001, which gives you the "all fighter" option or two fighters and a dive bomber, as the need arises. |
Which leaves you 3 points of wiggle room... which doesn't buy you a lot. Maybe turn the Pegaso into a Luca or the Eugenio into a Gorizia. |
I think you're going to want at least 3 fighters, since you're coming from the land base entirely, just in case your opponent invests in a couple of US bombers, and if you're going to have any "flex" in the air department, that means at least one Re.2001.
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| Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:04 pm |
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Posts: 59
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PE: I like the suggestion of two Folgore as it provides more aircover. Please don't forget that the Re.2001 has a better anti-air stat (7) than the Folgore (6).
I think one would eat the 3pts as the Pegaso has a great anti-sub SA combo and the best torpedo stat in the Italian Navy with a range two. You really don't lose too much on the other stats.
With Gorizia you would lose Set the Screen and might offset your smoke screens with the Flag2. |
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| Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:41 pm |
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Posts: 287
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Would this fleet have any way of dealing with a bigger battleship like Iowa or even Rodney? Pegaso and Luca have torps but are at the same time too weak to rely on. I would suggest trying to fit in one or two Ambras just to have something to even the score against a bigger BB (although Ambra might not be the scariest sub in the game).
Btw, I find it very hard to build a 100 pt fleet around VV because it´s not really powerful enough to stand up to the bigger ships but at the same time takes up half the points. I find more oppertunities to work something out if I build around Cecare because there are more points left for smaller units. |
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| Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:19 am |
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Nothing but Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash.
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| USS Yorktown (CV-5) wrote: | Would this fleet have any way of dealing with a bigger battleship like Iowa or even Rodney? Pegaso and Luca have torps but are at the same time too weak to rely on. I would suggest trying to fit in one or two Ambras just to have something to even the score against a bigger BB (although Ambra might not be the scariest sub in the game).
Btw, I find it very hard to build a 100 pt fleet around VV because it´s not really powerful enough to stand up to the bigger ships but at the same time takes up half the points. I find more oppertunities to work something out if I build around Cecare because there are more points left for smaller units. |
I don't know that you give VV quite enough credit, she's a big girl. I'd worry about Iowa, but who wouldn't, and Rodney is a better ship, but you can even that if your smoke goes the right way.
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| Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:48 pm |
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Posts: 59
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| Unfortunately Iowas out-class anything the Italians have... VV is not a first -rate bargain but she's not a waste either. Ambra does not have the range nor armor/hull pts to effectively counter large BBs in a 100pt. Taking multiple Ambras would eat into your points; one would be better served with a Sparviero for that point total, especially if you manage to damage the opponent's BB early. I also find Cesare to be too weak especially facing another BB. An Iowa would murder it and the saved 15pts really doesn't buy you a solution. |
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| Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:12 am |
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Posts: 3120
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This is a nice rounded build. At 100 you can't counter everything, so Iowa and Rodney based builds will certainly have an advantage of most 100 point builds short of a Yamato.
If you did want to swap in a Goriza, you might want to change out the Luca for a Vivaldi. Flag 2 would make ramming more useful and smoke less useful.
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TimK
IJN FUSO
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| Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:12 pm |
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Posts: 644
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Here's my Italian 100pts:
Giulio Cesare - 34
Gorizia - 15
Luca Tarigo - 8
Pegaso - 6
C202 Folgore - 5
C202 Folgore - 5
Ju87 Picc - 8
Ju87 Picc - 8
SM79 - 11
Total 100 pts
Gunpower is OK, Gorizia allows Flag 2, two destroyers for ASW, one fighter over the fleet every move, one dive bomber every move OR an all-out air attack every two moves.
The only thing missing is a submarine. In that case lose the SM 79, sacrifice 2 pts and bring in Ambra for 9pts instead.
Thoughts?
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| Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:41 am |
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My $0.02
If you're going w/ air, you're better off with an Aquila for 15 than a Goriza. You can park the Luca w/ Aquila and add smoke for additional cover.
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TimK
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| Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:56 pm |
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Posts: 644
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| IJN Fuso wrote: | My $0.02
If you're going w/ air, you're better off with an Aquila for 15 than a Goriza. You can park the Luca w/ Aquila and add smoke for additional cover. |
Good reply. But... Aquila is a fantasy ship. She was never completed and would have needed one or two years to get operational even after completion and Italy had no safe sea area to 'work-up' and train aircrew, deck crew and develop doctrines from first principals.
I won't play with fantasy ships, I come from the historical wing of wargaming. If I want to play German or Italian then I have to accept land-based air.
In my rules I won't allow smoke to affect air operations - smoke only works against surface or sub-surface threats. Aircraft can see over it.
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| Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:11 pm |
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Posts: 3120
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Given your historical nature - I'd say your build works pretty well then.
If you're playing a "grab the objective" game, I'd be tempted to lose the attack planes but keep the Folgores. I might spend the additional 27 on a
Zara (12)
Garabalid (13)
This gives you an additional group to go up a side and get an edge objective. This also leaves you w/ 2 points that you could "upgrade" your Pegaso to a Luca or Vivaldi. Of course, you light choose to keep the Pegaso for ASW.
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TimK
IJN FUSO
www.modelwarshipcombat.com |
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| Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:30 pm |
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