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Post subject: Something for IJN fans: Sanshiki shells?
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I was reading up on Yamato and saw a mention of something called a 'Sanshiki' or 'beehive' shell for the main 18 inch guns. It appears to have basically been a shell packed full of bullets and shot up to aircraft height with a timed fuse so it would be in effect a massive flak shell.
Anyone have any more info about these? Were they effective in theory but rarely put to effect?
I've been considering 'upgrade' cards that adjust point values/SAs/stats of ships. Was thinking about something like these shells for IJN ships. |
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 Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:57 pm |
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Nerd on the Prairie
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The San-shiki was not just designed for the 18.1", but for their 8", 14", and 16" too. From what I have read, and others can correct me if I am wrong, they were pretty ineffective against aircraft. I do think they were used to good effect against henderson field.
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| Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:13 pm |
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| drittal wrote: | | The San-shiki was not just designed for the 18.1", but for their 8", 14", and 16" too. From what I have read, and others can correct me if I am wrong, they were pretty ineffective against aircraft. I do think they were used to good effect against henderson field. |
I've seen stuff pointing to Yamato having the San shikis for her 18.1s as well. |
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| Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:16 pm |
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Nerd on the Prairie
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| Asbestos wrote: | | drittal wrote: | | The San-shiki was not just designed for the 18.1", but for their 8", 14", and 16" too. From what I have read, and others can correct me if I am wrong, they were pretty ineffective against aircraft. I do think they were used to good effect against henderson field. |
I've seen stuff pointing to Yamato having the San shikis for her 18.1s as well. |
Hence my stating that they were not just designed for the 18.1", but for the 8", 14", and 16" too. Implying that they were designed for all of them. 
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| Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:22 pm |
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Btw, I was considering that 'upgrade' card to be something like the following.
'Beehive Shells' Cost: +2 points (maybe more?)
At the beginning of the turn this unit can have two extra AA attack dice at the cost of 3 less Main Gunnery attack dice. This effect lasts until the end of the turn.
Basically some of the mains get loaded with the San-shikis during a turn, players can opt to use them or not use them each turn as they see fit. Adds some versatility to the ship.
Edit: Ha, whups, sorry I misread it as 'was NOT designed for the 18.1'.  |
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| Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:22 pm |
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Caesar Americanus II Munchkin Wrangler
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Catch is, they also wreaked havoc on the bores they were fired through... usable life went way down on each barrel with prolonged use of 'em.
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| Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:42 pm |
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| Diamondback wrote: | | Catch is, they also wreaked havoc on the bores they were fired through... usable life went way down on each barrel with prolonged use of 'em. |
I read that as well, then read elsewhere that it was a myth. I'm inclined to believe that it was a myth, I can't imagine any particular quality of the shell that would cause the barrel to be wore down any more than say... a HE shell or an AP shell. As near as I can figure these were basically HE shells with some of the HE filling replaced with steel balls and set for a timed, rather than impact fuze. Of course, I don't really have the schematics or designs of these things. |
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| Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:55 pm |
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Is the general consensus that these things weren't all that useful in any size shell?
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| Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:42 pm |
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The Japanese also tried stocks of "Red-Phosphorus" rounds for their main armament called "Sanshikidan" for area saturation of low level torpedo bombers. The red-phosphorus is often confused with the "beehive" shell. If you read the Futabasha books (Imperial Japanese Navy 1932-1945) there is an awesome chapter dedicated to both rounds in addition to the AAA unguided rockets used on some ships.
The Sanshikidan were the direct cause of the Mutsu's explosion (though the IJN investigation cited the ammunition was sabotaged) and all stocks of this ammo were removed from IJN warships in November 1943. According to Futabasha research the Mutsu was not the sole example of the Sanshikidan being too dangerous to use, there are other less publicised incidents of the rounds "decaying" over time and self detonating.
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| Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:49 am |
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