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Post subject: Italian Sub+Aquila
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I thought i might try to give those cheap Italian subs some love, heres what i came up with for a 100 point match:
3 Ambra
Aquila
2 RE2001
2 Folgore
2 Luca Tarigo
Zara
Total 102 pts
Just a bit over, but i wanted that second smoke screen to buy time for the subs. Paring Aquila with one Luca, Zara with the other, each moving towards an objective (Aquila towards the far one from the enemy). The three fighters a turn should cover the subs fairly nicely, and the RE's can bomb with an escort if theres no air threat to your subs! |
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 Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:01 pm |
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Posts: 142
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Post subject: Re: Italian Sub+Aquila
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| hansfranz wrote: | I thought i might try to give those cheap Italian subs some love, heres what i came up with for a 100 point match:
3 Ambra
Aquila
2 RE2001
2 Folgore
2 Luca Tarigo
Zara
Total 102 pts
Just a bit over, but i wanted that second smoke screen to buy time for the subs. Paring Aquila with one Luca, Zara with the other, each moving towards an objective (Aquila towards the far one from the enemy). The three fighters a turn should cover the subs fairly nicely, and the RE's can bomb with an escort if theres no air threat to your subs! |
To make it an even 100, I'd drop one Folgore and upgrade the Zara to a Gorizia. The initiative bonus is very important to both subs and planes, and you'll get some smoke synergy with Bad Weather Fighter. |
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| Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:25 pm |
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Forum Administrator
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I actually disagree. I think you lose the synergy of your build by putting together Gorizia and Luca Tarigo.
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| Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:36 pm |
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Posts: 142
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| jfkziegler wrote: | | I actually disagree. I think you lose the synergy of your build by putting together Gorizia and Luca Tarigo. |
Granted, Gorizia is an odd piece since it has both a flag bonus and Bad Weather Fighter; and smoke works better if you lose initiative. However, for me, winning initiative takes precedence because it helps with aircraft placement (And deciding which mode to use your CB.2001s in) and lining up torpedo shots (Ambras need all the help they can get). Bad Weather Fighter is just there in case you lose initiative. |
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| Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:02 am |
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Posts: 96
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| the swap might just be worth it to get that initiative and have higher success in concealment. Winning initiative might make up for the loss of that extra fighter. I was worried maybe i had added too many fighters to be really effective. |
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| Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:56 am |
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Nothing but Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash.
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I generally agree with jfkziegler on this one. If I go with smoke, I eschew flagged units despite their other advantages. I don't think Gorizia is bad if your focus is on sub effectiveness though, why not switch out the Lucas for something else in that case, be it more Ambras or for Ugolinos.
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| Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:58 am |
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Posts: 805
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| Thing is that the most the Italians will bring to the table is Flag 2. The Allied nations (beyond France) can easily bring this with a number of ships and will almost always have the better, or comparable, initiative. So, even if you show up with Gorizia, I think you'll still be able to get that smoke off. |
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| Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:12 am |
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Posts: 421
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Maybe I have tunnel vision, but I always start evaluating a fleet from the assumption that my opponent will bring an Iowa (or Musashi). Once I feel like I can at least have a fighting chance in that scenario, I'll consider sub-swarms, DD/PT-swarms, air-heavy builds, etc.
The Re2001s are not going to land hits on Iowa, nor will Zara. Your Taragos lack range 2 torpedoes, so they will probably bite the dust before helping much too.
Since Ambras provide the meat of your anti-battleship (and ASW) power, I don't think 3 is enough. Will they get off the necessary 36 torpedo shots to sink Iowa before you lose? I think a sub swarm at the 100 point level needs at least 4 if you are talking U-boats with wolfpack with Kondor support, but for Ambras I'd want 5 minimum.
As far as Gorizia, I'd take it if possible--the Ambra benefits from winning initiative probably more than any other submarines, there's a 3x difference between your range-0 shot and range-2 shot... |
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| Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:13 am |
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Posts: 96
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In a scenario against Iowa or Musashi the build might be weak, but i don't think it's out entirely. Depends on how you roll. One would have to hope to grab two objectives and then scoot around in smoke till Iowa is down from sub attacks.
I generally do not play with the Italians, so i haven't got much experience with them. I do think though that with Aquila and the fighter bombers you can create an adaptable build which may be successful against an array of opponents. |
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| Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:43 pm |
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