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Afrika Korps
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Post subject: Input for 1946 Scenario
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Here it goes:
I was thinking for some time now to create a scenario that is based on a slightly modified reality (fictional) in which in 1946 the War is not over. This would allow to use units like the Centurion, Gloster Meteor or IS3, that do not get to play in historical scenarios.
I could use also various opinions about what the plot could be - I was thinking to create a rapture between the Allies, such that Soviet forces would fire on British-American forces. The scenario could take place in 1946 in Germany (The Fuhrer is dead, there is power struggle between SS/Nazi figures and some High Ranking Generals in the Wehrmacht to control the Third Reich or what is left of it). Any ideas?
On the map, the Germans are attacked from two directions (by the Soviets and by the USA/UK forces). After inflicting as much damage as possible to both enemies, the Germans retreat to "high ground/defensive line" for a number of turns, leaving the US/UK forces head-to-head with the Soviets. After a few turns the Germans must counterattack with what they have left, after the initial turns. So, this could be a scenario for 3 players. It should be a scenario in which a German player, a US/UK player and a Soviet player should fight for the win.
Any thoughts?
I would like some opinions also regarding: what war equipment could have been still in use by the sides - keep in mind the context.
I believe that for the Germans we could have:
-The Hetzer (1944) should have been available in numbers.
- Me262 plane (1944) already operational and used by the Germans.
- Dornier DO 335 (1945) would this have been produced and see any combat if the war would have lasted?
- JagdPanzer 70 (1944) this could fit the scenario.
- Panther (1943) and JagdPanther (1944)
- King Tiger (1944) and JagdTiger (1944)
The above units should appear in the Scenario, but what else could fit?
What about the Allies and Soviets?
Feel free to comment.
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 Sat May 09, 2009 8:54 pm |
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"Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak, Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." - Churchill
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Hm, I thought about an "after war time" scenario based on the Korean War. The koreans used Soviet and Chinese weapons while the U.S used well...U.S weapons, and I believe all weapons were of WW2 era.
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| Sun May 10, 2009 2:30 am |
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Caesar Americanus II Munchkin Wrangler
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A while back, I was looking at something similar based on the alternate-history novels Fox on the Rhine and Fox at the Front.
Never did figure out the balancing, but my sides were:
->Allied including Rommel German
->Himmler German
->Soviet
Someday, I'd also like to write one inspired by C&C: Red Alert (think Germany and Russia trade places, but no SS units--transfer them to the Reds and call 'em NKVD).
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| Sun May 10, 2009 6:12 am |
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You might draw inspiration from IL-2 Sturmovik:1946 game.
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| Sun May 10, 2009 7:29 am |
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The Panzer Collector
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more 'uber tanks' made most likely, Panther II with the 88mm gun, perhaps a Maus or 2 for a 1946.
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| Sun May 10, 2009 11:49 am |
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"My dear general, the war can now only be won by the politicians." Von Rundstedt to Kurt Meyer.
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| Sun May 10, 2009 1:53 pm |
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IIRC the Do335 was operational since Jan. 1945. In fact, one encountered Tempests before the war ended.
A typical luft46 aircraft is the Go229, although I think it's of no use in a AAM scenario.
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| Sun May 10, 2009 2:41 pm |
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UK - Comet, Centurion
US - M26 Pershing, M24 Chaffee
USSR - IS-2, IS-3, T-34/85 (also remove "command dependant" from infantry, late war Soviet troops were much more motivated then early war troops)
SS units were staunchly anti-communist, they would have probably joined the US/UK. |
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| Sun May 10, 2009 3:02 pm |
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Afrika Korps
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@TorontoBizz
Yes, I was thinking in the same way. For the US, I guess (along with the Pershing and Chaffee) we can include the Sherman with the long barrel? As for the UK, the 17 Pounder Sherman, along with the Comet and Centurion.
For the USSR, for a late-1946 scenario the KV types would have been a little obsolete I guess, since we have the IS variants and T34's. What about the self-propelled guns?
Would there be a place for the Elephant in a late-1946 scenario as described in my first post? Or were these tank destroyers in a way abandoned.
@ND
So actually, I could include the Dornier in this scenario, regarding the facts you stated.
What means IIRC?
@Diamondback
I was thinking of keeping the Germans independent in this scenario, but motivated to fight the Soviets (obviously) and also fight the US/UK Allies since the latter did not accept an agreement that would take Germany out of the war in a certain (proposed) way. So, the challenge is to create such a scenario that is balanced and which keeps the Soviet-US/UK forces from destroying the Germans first and then fight each other. I have in mind a solution though.
------
As for the other replies: Maus tanks, Panther 2, T55 are not units we have in AAM currently, more than that, most players do not like to proxy units so I will stick with what is currently available in AAM.
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| Sun May 10, 2009 3:57 pm |
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IIRC: If I remember correctly.
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| Sun May 10, 2009 4:00 pm |
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Caesar Americanus II Munchkin Wrangler
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| TorontoBizz wrote: | | SS units were staunchly anti-communist, they would have probably joined the US/UK. |
ler
Assuming the Allies would take 'em--the two cases I'm talking about would be different timelines.
1. In the Fox on the Rhine duology, Rommel's deployed in a German counterattack--the Stauffenberg plot succeeds but sees an immediate countercoup by Himmler. Patton defeats Rommel, accepts his surrender, and Rommel's entire army even defects to form a "German Republican Army" as part of the Allies. Which means you basically see a "German Civil War", with one side having joined the Allies but the Reds at war with both. Spoiler: in the end, Zhukov's HQ in Potsdam gets Little Boy instead of Hiroshima as in our timeline.
2. In the Red Alert timeline, Hitler is eliminated in 1923. No Hitler, no Mein Kampf, no Nazis, no WWII--which sounds good until you consider: nobody standing in Stalin's way when he decides to send the Red Army west, changing that last to "no WWII as we know it". Since I don't expect to see genuine NKVD chekist scum (NKVD=KGB, and there's major bad-blood between me and them--far as I'm concerned, with few exceptions the only good KGB is dead KGB), I figured using the stats of SS units under a new name would be an expedient proxy.
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| Sun May 10, 2009 4:42 pm |
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Post subject: re
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Diamondback:
Thanks for mentioning those alternate history books! Love reading that stuff!
However, before we worry about the Germans being unable to stop the Red Army in 1923.....don't forget about the Poles!! In fact, the Poles stopped the Russians in 1919-1920! Of course, the Poles due owe some credit to the Russians, who shot themselves in the foot with their own stupidity! |
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| Sun May 10, 2009 5:17 pm |
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Caesar Americanus II Munchkin Wrangler
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But my read on C&C: Red Alert's backstory is Stalin didn't make his play in '23, but closer to start-of-war in OTL and thus allowing the Red horde more time to buildup. (Basically I'm trying to write an AAM scenario based on a computer-game storyline.)
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| Sun May 10, 2009 5:29 pm |
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Post subject: I've been thinking something different...
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| Steel_Panther wrote: | | more 'uber tanks' made most likely, Panther II with the 88mm gun, perhaps a Maus or 2 for a 1946. |
I like the idea of incuding these units, especially the Maus super-heavy.
I think the three player game concept is really interesting b/c of the way the 2 players will gang up but try to get an advantage for when the third player is knoced out (How would the German player achieve victory though? VPs based on units destroyed?).
I've been thinking about a "What if?" scenario in which the Germans are successful in their invasion of the Soviet Union, so by 1944 they have the resources/industry of the SU, but are still fighting a two-front war b/c Japan needs their help in the Pacific. Perhaps the Allies have come up through the Middle East to retake the oil fields of the Caucasus and Stalingrad.
I'm seeing German-made T-34s and ISs... |
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| Sun May 10, 2009 7:05 pm |
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Afrika Korps
Posts: 1390
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Post subject: Re: I've been thinking something different...
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| Bean965 wrote: | | I think the three player game concept is really interesting b/c of the way the 2 players will gang up but try to get an advantage for when the third player is knoced out (How would the German player achieve victory though? VPs based on units destroyed?). |
| Quote: | | On the map, the Germans are attacked from two directions (by the Soviets and by the USA/UK forces). After inflicting as much damage as possible to both enemies, the Germans retreat to "high ground/defensive line" for a number of turns, leaving the US/UK forces head-to-head with the Soviets which must engage each-other. After a few turns the Germans must counterattack with what they have left, after the initial turns. |
Something like this... of course, it will change a little until the scenario will be defined. It will be included a "motivation" for the Soviets to attack the US/UK while the Germans are - for some turns - inactive.
For my scenarios I do not use Victory Points... I do not like that. Also I do not use limited turns most of the time. I use Objectives (conquer a hex, defend a hex).
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| Sun May 10, 2009 7:12 pm |
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I like the idea.
For Alternate History books I recommend
Harry Turledove - Timeline 191 - 11 books spanning 1862 - 1944 (1945?)
Story:
in 1862 the Confederates manage to decisevly defeat the US. UK+France recognice the Souths independence and fore the US to sue for peace.
After another war between North and South (+Uk+FR) in the 1880s the again defeated US ally themselves with the Germans (they defeated France in 1870/71).
In Europe nothing really changes until 1914 when the Great war breaks out.
The US again goes to war against the South, but this time the English and French are also fighting in Europe (drawing UK troops to Canada, the situation for the Central powers is better).
I do not reveal too much when I say this time Germany wins the Great war - in 1917 the US of course does not side with the Entente  .
Consequences are that NO Hitler rises to power, because Germany won the war ...
in 1941 the second great war starts - again the same nations fight...
I was thinking to divide the AAM US units between north and south (Sherman wiould be an US unit, M3 "Lee" an Confederated unit...)
Would be a nice battle North vs. South with WWII equipment 
BTW no Soviet troops - Russia still has a Czar in 1941....
But I don't want to hijack this thread - I would like to see a 1946 scenario...
But I would start with an occupied Germany. the Point of diversion could be that the Western allies do not retreat from territory they conquered from Nazi Germany, but was promised to be in the Russian zone of influence (Yalta?).
Germany would have surrendered, but the Wehrmacht not disbanded because of tensions between East and West. Dönitz as Reichskanzler (he was Hitlers sucessor in reality) could support the ida of an war against Communism. The US and UK might use the SS (and Wehrmacht) as a "first line of defence" against an enraged Stalin who orders the Red Army to occupy the "promised" Territory.
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| Wed May 13, 2009 3:34 pm |
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I would love to see german He162 in the scenario. A weak but cheap fighter tries to defend the remaining german ground units...
Models are available in various scales...the 1:144 f.e. is about the size as the AAM Stuka. And since A&AM doesnt use constant scales with their planes why not use these for '46 scenarios?
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| Wed May 13, 2009 4:33 pm |
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