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[2nd PT & Feedback] HMS Temeraire
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Solomiranthius

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We do ticat. Thanks for trying to bridge the gap.
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PostMon Mar 20, 2017 1:52 am
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au64

 
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Throwing something wild and crazy out there to see what people think...

What if the Brits actually went ahead with the Hybrid Aircraft Carrier concept that they were planning for 1 of the 6 Lion class ships that were scheduled but ultimately cancelled?

Since this is a fantasy ship anyways, why not go WAY out there and build the following:

-------------
HMS Temeraire
Ship - Battleship/Carrier Hybrid
Aircraft Capacity: 1
1943
Cost: 63
Speed: 2
MG: 15-14-13-12
2G: 5-5-4
AA: 8
A/VA/HP: 9/15/5

Extended Range 4 - While undamaged, this unit can make range-4 Main Gunnery attacks using its range-3 attack value.

Torpedo Defense 1 - Each torpedo hit rolled against this unit deals 1 less point of hull damage.

Hybrid: This unit counts as both a Battleship and a Carrier

Class Limit: 1

-----------

For the cost swapped out the Damage Control and subtracted 2D across the Main Gun Line and added a Capacity of 1 for aircraft.  Finally added in an SA that specified it as both a Carrier and a Battleship for other SA interactions such as CAP, Chase the Salvos, etc..

I realize that this unit and design was completely thrown out the window (and I expect no difference here)... but come on!  How cool would this be on the table?   Very Happy



At least everyone can get behind shooting this down.   Wink
PostMon Mar 20, 2017 4:00 pm
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au64

 
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Solomiranthius wrote:
I'll play that against someone (if that someone can map).


Solo, I'll take you on... Setup a room and conditions.
PostMon Mar 20, 2017 6:23 pm
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admiral_tee

 

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Gawd au64 - talk about throwing a spanner into the works Wink

Not a big fan but eh, just my 2 cents and I know how much that's worth.

Tee
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Scharnhorst's fate in WaS: "Scharnhorst is quite a... "Häßlich stinkender Hund" that the only real options are the LS 6 early year 41 cost Gneisenau, and the 4 attack kaboomkannon fantasy Scharnhorst."
PostTue Mar 21, 2017 2:17 am
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Flakstruk

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What about Radar Fire Control, is a technical specification after all

Edit, it would be correct i think that DC would restore RFC as ut does Extended range. Adding value to that SA

Edit 2: the vanguard had 1944 "Type 274" radar for fire cintrol
PostTue Mar 21, 2017 2:29 am
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admiral_tee

 

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Flakstruk wrote:
What about Radar Fire Control, is a technical specification after all

Edit, it would be correct i think that DC would restore RFC as ut does Extended range. Adding value to that SA

Edit 2: the vanguard had 1944 "Type 274" radar for fire cintrol


What about this one Flak?

Flakstruk wrote:

Getting back to Temeraire and looking for the middle ground a thought i had this morning was that we could alternatively to the current proposals amend Stalwart in such a way that Temerarie did not ever suffer the crippled condition on guns, speed, armour or AA.
It doesn't quite go as far as the DC or Tenacity option but it goes a bit further than the Stalwart only option and maintains the favourable historical justification.


Tee
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Scharnhorst's fate in WaS: "Scharnhorst is quite a... "Häßlich stinkender Hund" that the only real options are the LS 6 early year 41 cost Gneisenau, and the 4 attack kaboomkannon fantasy Scharnhorst."
PostTue Mar 21, 2017 4:03 am
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Flakstruk

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Thay was proposed as a single SA, instead of stalwart or DC

I have no issue with it
PostTue Mar 21, 2017 4:24 am
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war at sea 4

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ticat1 wrote:
war at sea 4 wrote:
ticat1 wrote:
I think one of the biggest issues we're having is that we're all wildly throwing darts rather than taking specific aim.

To me, this unit should come in between Tirpitz and Freddy capability wise.  It should best Tirpitz most of the time and lose to Freddy most of the time but remain competitive against both.

Is that what everyone else is thinking?


 Isn't this mind boggling!!!


K, I'm done trying to help.  It's not like you folk believe that I'm/we're listening anyway.



    Sorry for that Ticat1 I know your trying what you think is right. Just a bit of frustration; personally i feel this is really going no where;  all that can be said has been said; so the Team should just do it the way the collective body sees it.
  Tell Shin w'll drop DC and Stalwart if he drops the force field although an ION cannon may be nice.
PostWed Mar 22, 2017 12:00 am
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admiral_tee

 

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Since the idea of a 2 SA Temeraire (besides ER, TD and BWG):
*does not have the majority of support within the team
*has had no visible sign of support from anyone within the team
*does not have the backing of influential members in the team
*is being unduly influenced by past "stinkender Hunds" created by Team X
*only has community support and not committee support
and
*will break the War At Sea game as we know it, thus ending humanity

We're left with little option to settle for something more conservative.Which I guess is... rather fitting for a Brit unit.

I'm sorry to the other guys who really supported having a fun characterful unit to play but as that is sounding more and more like waste of time, let's see where the discussion on having a "technical" SA like "Advanced" Stalwart gets us  Rolling Eyes  Wink  Shocked

Tee
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Scharnhorst's fate in WaS: "Scharnhorst is quite a... "Häßlich stinkender Hund" that the only real options are the LS 6 early year 41 cost Gneisenau, and the 4 attack kaboomkannon fantasy Scharnhorst."
PostWed Mar 22, 2017 1:13 am
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ticat1

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Thank you, war at sea 4.  I appreciate that.

As for Tee's remarks, I'm not against two flavour SAs.  I'm 100% behind DC and I would just rather see something else other than another survivability SA.

I do like the combo of DC and RDF

And I like the "doesn't suffer cripple" SA

I'm not going to speak for the rest of the team, but I do know and can assure you that nothing is yet set in stone
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PostWed Mar 22, 2017 3:09 am
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Not sure what advance stalwart is. What was wrong with the SA's proposed that were discussed? The only difference I had was perhaps on the cost with DC, but I don't see where that was that big a deal. Just asking.
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PostWed Mar 22, 2017 3:10 am
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ticat1

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Advanced Stalwart:  This unit does not suffer the effects of Crippled.
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PostWed Mar 22, 2017 3:28 am
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admiral_tee

 

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Sigh... look up further 12-7, 3 posts above mine on this page.
Flaks early SA proposal.
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Scharnhorst's fate in WaS: "Scharnhorst is quite a... "Häßlich stinkender Hund" that the only real options are the LS 6 early year 41 cost Gneisenau, and the 4 attack kaboomkannon fantasy Scharnhorst."
PostWed Mar 22, 2017 3:31 am
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Thanks,
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PostWed Mar 22, 2017 3:31 am
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admiral_tee wrote:
Sigh... look up further 12-7, 3 posts above mine on this page.
Flaks early SA proposal.


Sorry, hadn't been receiving updates and didn't see it.
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PostWed Mar 22, 2017 3:33 am
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So when 1 Hull is left, treat it as if there are 2 Hull remaining. Hmmmm. That is almost a 6 Hull BB.
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PostWed Mar 22, 2017 3:36 am
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admiral_tee

 

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12-7-gamer wrote:
So when 1 Hull is left, treat it as if there are 2 Hull remaining. Hmmmm. That is almost a 6 Hull BB.


You don't treat it as 2 Hull remaining. Your comment is an inaccurate simplification and implies it can take another hit and not go down, which we know is incorrect.

A fairer and accurate "simplification" statement is to say, "So when 1 Hull is left, this ignores the penalties for being Crippled".

It's not even close to making this an "almost 6 Hull" nor attach it to that debilitating conversation.

Tee
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Scharnhorst's fate in WaS: "Scharnhorst is quite a... "Häßlich stinkender Hund" that the only real options are the LS 6 early year 41 cost Gneisenau, and the 4 attack kaboomkannon fantasy Scharnhorst."
PostWed Mar 22, 2017 4:30 am
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admiral_tee wrote:
12-7-gamer wrote:
So when 1 Hull is left, treat it as if there are 2 Hull remaining. Hmmmm. That is almost a 6 Hull BB.


You don't treat it as 2 Hull remaining. Your comment is an inaccurate simplification and implies it can take another hit and not go down, which we know is incorrect.

A fairer and accurate "simplification" statement is to say, "So when 1 Hull is left, this ignores the penalties for being Crippled".

It's not even close to making this an "almost 6 Hull" nor attach it to that debilitating conversation.

Tee


Ok, thanks, I appreciate the clarification.
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PostWed Mar 22, 2017 4:45 am
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war at sea 4

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Solomiranthius wrote:
That post above is all the long analysis, for those not willing to read it here is the short:

If you look only at this table:



it is crazy to imagine, argue, or defend that Temeraire, lacking the Flag 2 of both Lion and Alsace, lacking the range 3 seconds and true thirds of Alsace, lacking ER5 of Alsace, lacking the main boost of Alsace (due to ES granted) and having maybe 5.5 hull is somehow exactly between the two ships in cost. It is far closer to Lion than to Alsace--again 60-61 points.

Edit--and again--the chance to both gain back ER4 (Temeraire having only 1 hp of damage at the end of a turn) and being able to use ER4 rather than having a main target at range 3 or less is so small the argument is a red herring. (See the long argument for that analysis.)

I would not argue with a 61 point cost max, although I still feel this is probably high. I disagree that even 62 is warranted (which goes into my analysis). 63 is ludicrous.

 
   
   Although its minor to me tertiary guns are a value over bristling with guns;  I would much prefer to have the option to fire on the same target twice; to me it adds even more value to Alsace over Temeraire.
  Maybe not a points worth but at 61 your right on.

PostThu Mar 23, 2017 3:47 pm
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