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Covering Fire
 
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Vetnor

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Post subject: Covering Fire  Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
If ship A with the SA Covering Fire fires at ship B and ship A is then destroyed in the same Surface Phase is ship B still penalised the next turn?

My understanding is that the effect of the SA is removed when the unit with the SA is destroyed?
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PostMon Sep 05, 2016 8:30 am
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firesdstny

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That is correct.

Similarly if Ship A fires on B, but then gets blown up in the airphase next turn, B's penalty is lifted.
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PostMon Sep 05, 2016 1:10 pm
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war at sea 4

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Wasn't their a big discussion on this with the Sullivan SA?? last deck.
    I believe most in the Forum agreed  SA effects end with the destruction of the unit at the end of the phase.

  I believe if an SA is worded that the destruction of a unit allows the SA to take place;; it should
  Inspire to Victory

   Chikuma's Scout Plane is worded; until end of turn.
Would that allow SUBs to benefit from that SA in the sub phase if the Chikuma was sunk in the Surface phase ??

   I can't find anything in the Rules that say it one way or the other ;;But to keep it KISS the Consensus was probably right.
PostMon Sep 05, 2016 1:13 pm
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Vetnor

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Thanks Guys
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PostMon Sep 05, 2016 1:52 pm
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firesdstny

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war at sea 4 wrote:

   Chikuma's Scout Plane is worded; until end of turn.
Would that allow SUBs to benefit from that SA in the sub phase if the Chikuma was sunk in the Surface phase ??

   I can't find anything in the Rules that say it one way or the other ;;But to keep it KISS the Consensus was probably right.


There was an official clarification some where.  Even though chikumas sa says the end of turn if chikuma dies during surface the subs do not benefit.
PostMon Sep 05, 2016 3:37 pm
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Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
firesdstny wrote:
war at sea 4 wrote:

   Chikuma's Scout Plane is worded; until end of turn.
Would that allow SUBs to benefit from that SA in the sub phase if the Chikuma was sunk in the Surface phase ??

   I can't find anything in the Rules that say it one way or the other ;;But to keep it KISS the Consensus was probably right.


There was an official clarification some where.  Even though chikumas sa says the end of turn if chikuma dies during surface the subs do not benefit.


As I understand it, fires is right, because you remove units at the end of the phase in which they die. (If destroyers are sunk by air or other surface ships, they don't suppress ASW during the Sub phase.) So at the end of the turn the ship is not there, then it doesn't benefit anyone any more.
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PostMon Sep 05, 2016 5:39 pm
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CommanderSam

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So if a ship/A/C lays mines but is later destroyed, the mine is removed?
PostMon Sep 05, 2016 8:49 pm
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war at sea 4

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The Great Huscari;; made a decision on Caio Dullio's Covering Fire SA.
  Some say it was broad enough to mean all SA's die with the unit at the end of the phase;;;    
 I believe thats the most reliable source of a question you could get.
   I never read it personally so i can't judge for my self if his intention was so broad.
I personally would like more intention of meaning to some SA's as Chikuma and so on; But we all know what that would mean to a simple game such as WAS.
   So if i'm sitting across the table from you, we'll decide on matters as this.
PostTue Sep 06, 2016 2:24 am
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firesdstny

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CommanderSam wrote:
So if a ship/A/C lays mines but is later destroyed, the mine is removed?


No because you Marker the sector.  The marker stays.  That is not consistent to the unit markers (Chitose, etc.) but that is always how I have understood it.  Hitting the mines doens't remove the marker either.  Only a minesweeper unit.
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PostTue Sep 06, 2016 3:33 am
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Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
firesdstny wrote:
CommanderSam wrote:
So if a ship/A/C lays mines but is later destroyed, the mine is removed?


No because you Marker the sector.  The marker stays.  That is not consistent to the unit markers (Chitose, etc.) but that is always how I have understood it.  Hitting the mines doens't remove the marker either.  Only a minesweeper unit.


The same thinking would apply to smoke screen markers.
I wish this general "SA negated by destruction" had been clarified or stated. It seems quite confusing. I don't remember my group playing this way (SA was applied as from its trigger to its planned end).
PostTue Sep 06, 2016 11:20 am
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LcdrSwizzle

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Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
CommanderSam wrote:
firesdstny wrote:
CommanderSam wrote:
So if a ship/A/C lays mines but is later destroyed, the mine is removed?


No because you Marker the sector.  The marker stays.  That is not consistent to the unit markers (Chitose, etc.) but that is always how I have understood it.  Hitting the mines doens't remove the marker either.  Only a minesweeper unit.


The same thinking would apply to smoke screen markers.
I wish this general "SA negated by destruction" had been clarified or stated. It seems quite confusing. I don't remember my group playing this way (SA was applied as from its trigger to its planned end).


Good point about this could use clarity. It would seem that anything you "mark" (mines, smoke) stays, and other things go away. That's a simple ruling, but I'm not sure what loop-holes it leaves.
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PostTue Sep 06, 2016 12:46 pm
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war at sea 4

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Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
firesdstny wrote:
CommanderSam wrote:
So if a ship/A/C lays mines but is later destroyed, the mine is removed?


No because you Marker the sector.  The marker stays.  That is not consistent to the unit markers (Chitose, etc.) but that is always how I have understood it.  Hitting the mines doens't remove the marker either.  Only a minesweeper unit.


I think most use a marker for Chikuma; reason would have it the scout plane still marked the unit;
  I don't see how their can be any clarity to this if its not in the rules and their is no addendum.  As i said i think the Forum keeps it simple this way and its fine.
                BUT
  The rules to this game can be grasped by experienced War gamers new to the game quickly and if they don't see it this way, as an experienced War Gamer their is one cardinal rule for disputes;
  Its used all the time its fair and quick

PostTue Sep 06, 2016 3:24 pm
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