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Admiral Duncan

 
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Post subject: Stalemate?  Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
I am playtesting my Standard 100pt Weserubung/Bergen scenario, and this is the situation:

All the German ships are sunk, and they have only a single He111H left.

The Allies have lost all their ships and have an installation (worth 11 points), 2 subs and 5 air units left.

The Germans have 140pts and the Allies 135pts.

The Germans could win by destroying the installation, but the chance of the lone bomber doing this before the two Skuas shoot it down are low.

Can the German player, if he wishes, just assign the bomber to the Land base every turn, and would this be considered a stalemate, and thus a German victory on points, or would it be a draw, because the game could still go on?

Obviously I will play on, but the situation warranted the question.
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PostSat Jul 23, 2016 9:46 am
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Last edited by Vetnor on Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
PostSat Jul 23, 2016 10:00 am
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Admiral Duncan

 
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Vetnor wrote:
When all ships with sea control are sunk of one player or both players the game is concluded at the end of that turn.


Where does it say that in the rules?

It says:
"If, at any time, your opponent has no units left at the end of a phase, the game ends and you win."

That applies to all units, not just objective claim capable units.

They also say:
"When your enemy has no ships remaining in play other than Torpedo Boats (Submarines and Aircraft don't count as Ships), you score 50 bonus points. You score this bonus only once, the first time it happens during the game."

This rules mentions nothing about the game ending in this situation?

The rules for stalemate only give a situation where neither side can attack each other, or claim objectives i.e. fighters and subs. In my situation both sides can attack each other, but the only way the German player can win is to destroy the installation and thus score 151 points, and the only way the Norwegian player can win is to destroy the He111 and thus eliminate all his opponents units. In this situation the German player is choosing not to leave his Land Air Base, thus creating a 'stalemate' by default and winning the game on points.

Is this really a stalemate? or is it a draw because the German could fly his plane thus allowing one side or the other to win?
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PostSat Jul 23, 2016 11:43 am
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Solomiranthius

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I'd say it is poor ettiquette at that point to not fly the bomber against the installation. Since one unit could attack the other.

But has the He111 used its Alternate Payload? If so... It also seems ridiculous to force a player to fly a plane against a unit it cannot damage. Weird situation.
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PostSat Jul 23, 2016 11:51 am
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Admiral Duncan

 
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Solomiranthius wrote:
I'd say it is poor ettiquette at that point to not fly the bomber against the installation. Since one unit could attack the other.

But has the He111 used its Alternate Payload? If so... It also seems ridiculous to force a player to fly a plane against a unit it cannot damage. Weird situation.


This is an early war custom He111. Just a basic bomber, not a naval attack unit. Yes I agree it must attack, and it will. If it was the torp version, then yes, once it had used it's alternate payload then I think you are right and it would indeed then be a stalemate.

But the question remains. If the German player continues to fly missions to the land air base, what is the outcome of the game?
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PostSat Jul 23, 2016 5:05 pm
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Solomiranthius

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A punch to the German player's nose? Wink Laughing

J/K

Not sure there is a definite answer here. This goes beyond rules to gamer etiquette.
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PostSat Jul 23, 2016 10:55 pm
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This is called "turtling" in the tabletop game business and it is extremely bad etiquette. When I was a MechWarrior Battlemaster I had the right to declare a player was "turtling" and force him/her to go into harms way and engage the opponent. In a formal tournament environment it is necessary to have a way to force the game to continue to completion. Almost by definition the player that is turtling is at a disadvantage for being forced to engage. But that is just the way it goes. Don't get in that situation in the first place!

But there is no formal way to stop this in the WaS Rulebook. It comes down to the player's sportsmanship. My own opinion is the player should take a chance and engage, or cede the win to the opponent. But that is just my opinion. I hate turtling.  naughty
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PostSun Jul 24, 2016 5:32 am
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Admiral Duncan

 
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Agreed. Not engaging was never an option, but I realised that in reality it is an option someone could take, and how would players deal with it.

IMO, in this situation, with the Germans in the lead points wise, I think if the German player won't commit to action then the game should be declared a  tie. If they had been losing on points then non-commitment should be an Allied victory.

Well the He111 proved very resilient. The Skuas struggled to abort it with 5 dice v 5 armour and they never shot it down. 4 successes with 7 dice proved fairly easy and eventually the 4 hits required to turn Kvarven Fort into rubble were achieved for a German victory of 151:135 points.

Much closer than the first game where the Allies only got twenty something points. I soon realised that the air must go all out for the German combat ships and can leave the merchants alone, while keeping the tiny Norwegian surface force out of harms way for as long as possible. However, with the merchants left alone until later, one manged to get to the nearest island and land her vital cargo for 8 points that in the end proved decisive. Also, a lucky roll of 11 against Hellen fort with a single Landing 1 Type 23/24 Destroyer helped.

Lets see if the allies can win my third game.


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PostSun Jul 24, 2016 6:52 am
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