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RN destroyer refits?
 
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Shinnentai

 

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Post subject: RN destroyer refits?  Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
Hi guys,

I'm looking to recreate 4 Meditteranean theatre battles :

Calabria (09/07/40)
Spartivento (27/11/40)
Matapan (27/04/41)
2nd Sirte (22/03/42)

WotC & the Forumini card decks cover a lot of the units involved, leaving around 80 units which I'd like to make cards for.

Conways says that several of the RN destroyer classes involved went through refits during the war, but doesn't tell me when these refits were. Since these mainly involve halving the torps in exchange for light AA they have a bearing on the stats that I'll be using.

Unfortunately I haven't had much luck in finding when the refits would have occurred, or in the case of the detailed table of movements, it just states that it was in refit without confirming that it's the refit which changes the armament.

Can anyone shed any light on what armament these destroyers would have had on these dates? (ie mostly when they lost half their TTs) :

'D' class Destroyer
HMS Dainty - 09/07/40
HMS Decoy - 09/07/40, 27/04/41
HMS Defender - 09/07/40, 27/04/41
HMS Diamond - 22/03/42

'E', 'F' class Destroyer
HMS Encounter - 27/11/40
HMS Faulknor - 27/11/40
HMS Firedrake - 27/11/40
HMS Forester - 27/11/40
HMS Fury - 27/11/40

'G', 'H', 'I' class Destroyer
HMS Gallant - 27/11/40
HMS Greyhound - 27/11/40, 27/04/41
HMS Griffin - 27/11/40, 27/04/41
HMS Hasty - 09/07/40, 27/04/41, 22/03/42
HMS Havock - 27/04/41, 22/03/42
HMS Hereward - 09/07/40, 27/11/40, 27/04/41
HMS Hero - 09/07/40, 22/03/42
HMS Hostile - 09/07/40
HMS Hotspur - 27/04/41
HMS Hyperion - 09/07/40
HMS Ilex - 09/07/40, 27/04/41

'J', 'K' class Destroyer
HMS Jaguar - 27/11/40, 27/04/41
HMS Janus - 09/07/40, 27/04/41
HMS Jervis - 27/04/41, 22/03/42
HMS Juno - 09/07/40, 27/04/41
HMS Kelvin - 27/11/40, 22/03/42
HMS Kingston - 22/03/42
HMS Kipling - 22/03/42

Any help would be much appreciated!
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PostWed May 28, 2014 9:40 pm
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torpman

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I lack the time to look them up right now, but I will say the refits happened at the end of 1940 to early 1942. Any battles in 1941 or 1942 they would have 1/1/1 torps and +1 AA with likely -1 cost.
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PostWed May 28, 2014 9:50 pm
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Shinnentai

 

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Doesn't look like anyone is going to be my saviour on this one ^^.

Can anyone recommend any books that would have sufficiently in-depth detail as to determine date & extent of refits for individual ships, so that I could work out armament during the battles in question?
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PostFri Jun 20, 2014 3:54 pm
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direwolf

 

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Shinnentai wrote:
Doesn't look like anyone is going to be my saviour on this one ^^.

Can anyone recommend any books that would have sufficiently in-depth detail as to determine date & extent of refits for individual ships, so that I could work out armament during the battles in question?


Have you tried Wikipedia?  I know it's not always 100% accurate, but I think for this it would be fine.

For example, HMS Gallant swapped out her rear torpedo tubes for a 3 inch gun in late June 1940.  SOURCE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Gallant_%28H59%29
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PostFri Jun 20, 2014 9:57 pm
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direwolf

 

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I quickly researched on the net for these, so I don't guarantee 100% accuracy.  The J/K class was really vague on the info.  I hope this helps.  Please post the cards when you make them!

'D' class Destroyer
HMS Dainty - 09/07/40 (original)
HMS Decoy - 09/07/40, 27/04/41 (original)
HMS Defender - 09/07/40, 27/04/41 (original)
HMS Diamond - 22/03/42 (original)

'E', 'F' class Destroyer
HMS Encounter - 27/11/40 (swapped out rear TT for 3in?)
HMS Faulknor - 27/11/40 (original, note destroyer leader with 5x4.7")
HMS Firedrake - 27/11/40 (original)
HMS Forester - 27/11/40 (original)
HMS Fury - 27/11/40 (original)

'G', 'H', 'I' class Destroyer
HMS Gallant - 27/11/40 (swapped out rear TT for 3in)
HMS Greyhound - 27/11/40, 27/04/41 (original)
HMS Griffin - 27/11/40, 27/04/41 (rear TT & .5 cal MG removed, 1x3in & 4x20mm added)
HMS Hasty - 09/07/40, 27/04/41, 22/03/42 (rear TT & .5 cal MG removed, 1x3in & 4x20mm added)
HMS Havock - 27/04/41, 22/03/42  (rear TT & .5 cal MG removed, 1x3in & 6x20mm added)
HMS Hereward - 09/07/40, 27/11/40, 27/04/41 (swapped out rear TT for 3in)
HMS Hero - 09/07/40, 22/03/42 (unknown, probably swapped rear TT for 1x3in )
HMS Hostile - 09/07/40 (original)
HMS Hotspur - 27/04/41 (rear TT & .5 cal MG removed, 1x3in & 4x20mm added)
HMS Hyperion - 09/07/40 (unknown, probably swapped rear TT for 1x3in )
HMS Ilex - 09/07/40, 27/04/41 (probably original)

'J', 'K' class Destroyer
HMS Jaguar - 27/11/40, 27/04/41 (probably swapped rear TT for 4in gun & 0.5 cal MG for 3x20mm, DC, and type 286 air warning radar)
HMS Janus - 09/07/40, 27/04/41 (probably swapped rear TT for 4in gun & 0.5 cal MG for 3x20mm, DC, and type 286 air warning radar)
HMS Jervis - 27/04/41, 22/03/42 (destroyer leader, time of refit unknown)
HMS Juno - 09/07/40, 27/04/41 (probably swapped rear TT for 4in gun & 0.5 cal MG for 3x20mm, DC, and type 286 air warning radar)
HMS Kelvin - 27/11/40, 22/03/42 (probably swapped rear TT for 4in gun & 0.5 cal MG for 3x20mm, DC, and type 286 air warning radar)
HMS Kingston - 22/03/42 (swapped rear TT for 4in gun)
HMS Kipling - 22/03/42 (probably swapped rear TT for 4in gun & 0.5 cal MG for 3x20mm, DC, and type 286 air warning radar)
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PostFri Jun 20, 2014 10:45 pm
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torpman

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That looks pretty much good. Though I will add that 'x' mount on the HMS FAULKNOR  was replaced by a 4 inch HA gun. Though I do not know when. She did likely always carry a full torpedo load though. http://www.naval-history.net/Photo10ddFaulknor1NPPeterCrocker.JPG
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PostMon Jun 23, 2014 10:49 pm
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'Warspite'

 

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torpman wrote:
That looks pretty much good. Though I will add that 'x' mount on the HMS FAULKNOR  was replaced by a 4 inch HA gun. Though I do not know when. She did likely always carry a full torpedo load though. http://www.naval-history.net/Photo10ddFaulknor1NPPeterCrocker.JPG


Confusingly a few destroyers are known to have been swapped back to having two torpedo mountings with the 4-inch HA gun removed again. Probably vessels where the surface threat was thought greater than the AA threat although it should be mentioned that the 4-inch HA was intended as a star-shell gun as much as anything.

Also be aware that if four torpedo tubes remain on board, it is possible that only three torpedoes were carried. The fourth tube was sometimes loaded with an extra large deep water Mark X depth charge.


From Wiki:
Quote:
The British Mark X depth charge weighed 3,000 pounds (1,400 kg) and was launched from 21-inch (53 cm) torpedo tubes of older destroyers to achieve a sinking velocity of 21 ft/s (6.4 m/s).[9] The launching ship needed to clear the area at 11 knots to avoid damage, and the charge was seldom used.[9] Only 32 were actually fired, and they were known to be troublesome.[10]



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