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Hood

 
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Post subject: Hms Tiger  Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
If the RN had kept Tiger and refitted it to same standard as the Kongo class would it have been an effective ship to serve in WW2?
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PostSun May 24, 2015 9:03 pm
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montyburns1982

 

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Biggest problem would have been rearming her, as 13.5 ammunition was phased out in favour of 14, 15 and 16 in guns.
PostSun May 24, 2015 10:39 pm
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Hood

 
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montyburns1982 wrote:
Biggest problem would have been rearming her, as 13.5 ammunition was phased out in favour of 14, 15 and 16 in guns.

Thats true I wonder of any one has done a conversion on a Woc Kongo to Hms Tiger?
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PostSun May 24, 2015 10:46 pm
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montyburns1982 wrote:
Biggest problem would have been rearming her, as 13.5 ammunition was phased out in favour of 14, 15 and 16 in guns.

I think they could have made more. From what I understand, treaty ink not shell size doomed her. If refitted, she would have been a quite capable warship.
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PostTue May 26, 2015 11:56 pm
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'Warspite'

 

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montyburns1982 wrote:
Biggest problem would have been rearming her, as 13.5 ammunition was phased out in favour of 14, 15 and 16 in guns.


Not quite so. The Royal Marines Siege Regiment was issued with three spare 13.5-inch railway guns and used them for cross-Channel bombardment from 1940 onwards. There were also more spare guns and turrets aboard HMS Iron Duke, by then reduced to use as a training ship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BL_13.5-inch_Mk_V_naval_gun#Railway_guns

While the retention of 13.5-inch as a calibre would have been inconvenient, its cost was as nothing compared to that of the completed ship. HMS Tiger was probably an unfortunate choice for scrapping but I believe it was a treaty obligation at the time. If she had been retained in the Iron Duke's role (i.e. training ship) she could then have been re-armed in war-time as a fast cruiser killer. Her armour even bears some favourable comparison with HMS Repulse.

Oddly Kongo's sister ship, HIJMS Hiei, had also dodged the scrapyard by going the 'training ship' route:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kongō-class_battlecruiser#Hiei

Given the choice (and the money) I would have re-armed Kongo with either twin x 4-inch AA or twin x 4.5-inch AA and got rid of all of the 6-inch in favour of the AA and extra armour over the magazine crowns and turret roofs. But remember that in the Depression/Post-Depression 1930s UK money was very short and scrapping a large ship like Tiger would create much-needed employment. In those days all RN scrapping of warships was carried out in the UK.
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PostWed May 27, 2015 4:29 pm
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montyburns1982

 

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Warspite I know they kept the guns, but they no longer manufactured the ammo (I guess the shore batteries used up old stock?), which is what I was getting at. Tiger would have probably had to have been rearmed. Iron Duke doesn't count as by then she was no longer an effective warship.

I remember the same conversation when we talked about a possible modernised HMAS Australia.
PostWed May 27, 2015 5:08 pm
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'Warspite'

 

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montyburns1982 wrote:
Warspite I know they kept the guns, but they no longer manufactured the ammo (I guess the shore batteries used up old stock?), which is what I was getting at. Tiger would have probably had to have been rearmed. Iron Duke doesn't count as by then she was no longer an effective warship.

I remember the same conversation when we talked about a possible modernised HMAS Australia.


The manufacture of ammunition is never a great issue. Established production lines can be easily re-started. India no longer manufactures 25-pounder ammunition but has stated that it would re-start if there was a buyer. (India was the last world supplier for the venerable 25-pounder).

The other question is how much ammunition was still in stock to begin with? If there was enough to re-mount and start firing three x 13.5-inch in 1940 then that implies that even without a re-start of manufacture there would have been enough to outfit an eight-gun ship in 1931/34.

***

Intrigued, I just checked Nav Weapons and found this:

"54 guns were still in existence in 1939 along with six turrets removed from HMS Tiger and HMS Iron Duke and placed in storage at Rosyth."

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_135-45_mk5.htm

The same link also says:   "Four guns together with their slides and cradles from the scrapped battlecruiser HMS Tiger were sold to Turkey before the start of World War II, but none were ever delivered."

If we were selling the guns to Turkey and keeping the other 50 in stock then that suggests that ammunition was available or could be available. You don't keep old guns if you have nothing to fire from them.

Barry


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