:: :: FAQ :: Search :: Memberlist :: Join! (free) :: Profile :: Log in to check your private messages :: Log in ::
THE LOSS OF ARK ROYAL
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Axis & Allies ForuMINI Forum Index -> WAS General Discussion -> Naval Research
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
HMS ARKROYAL

 

Joined: 14 Apr 2015
Likes received: 2

Posts: 286
FLAGS




Post subject: THE LOSS OF ARK ROYAL  Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
It has always puzzled me how this famous ship was lost to a single torpedo from a u boat.
Did it not have a torpedo bulge to protect against it or was it a very lucky hit from the u boat?
It certainly took a long time to sink after the initial hit from the torpedo.
So I presume flooding took hold quickly and the pumps could not cope?
PostWed Apr 15, 2015 1:22 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
CommanderSam

 Fluctuat Nec Mergitur

MySingleNationClub

Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Likes received: 21

Posts: 997
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
From Wikipedia

Spoiler:

Following the sinking, a Board of Inquiry was established to investigate the loss. Based on its findings, Captain Loben Maund was court-martialled for negligence in February 1942. He was found guilty on two counts of negligence: one of failing to ensure that properly constituted damage control parties had remained on board after the general evacuation, and one of failing to ensure the ship was in a sufficient state of readiness to deal with possible damage.[105] The board tempered their judgement with an acknowledgement that a high standard was being expected of Maund, and that he was primarily concerned with the welfare of his crew.[105]

The Bucknill Committee, which had been set up to investigate the loss of major warships, also produced a report. This report said that the lack of backup power sources was a major design failure, which contributed to the loss: Ark Royal depended on electricity for much of her operation, and once the boilers and steam dynamos were knocked out, the loss of power made damage control difficult. The committee recommended the design of the bulkheads and boiler intakes be improved to decrease the risk of widespread flooding in boiler rooms and machine spaces, while the uninterrupted boiler room flat was criticised. The design flaws were rectified in the Illustrious- and Implacable-class carriers, under construction at the time.

The Board of Inquiry closed its report with the observation that Ark Royal had sunk 22 nmi (25 mi; 41 km) east of Europa Point, the southernmost tip of Gibraltar. This was accepted as the wreck location for 60 years.


My comprehension is a combination of design flaw (damage control relying too much on failible electricity sources that could be lost for good in case of flooding), lack of preparation to attack and unsufficient damage control crew remaining on board after the torpedo hit.

I think I read something about smoke collection vulnerability (located on the ship sides, was hit and punctured and conveyed ingressing water directly to the boilers, shutting off power that would have been necessary to reject the flow).
PostWed Apr 15, 2015 1:50 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
gaz01

 Remember The Hood


Joined: 16 Apr 2010
Likes received: 40

Posts: 657
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
It was a balls up.

Pretty much from the word go the Germans were claiming ARK sunk every other attack and I bet they couldn't actually believe it when they did.

It should of made Gib and ultimately heads rolled.

It could not have come at a worse time as well with the fleet casualties at Greece/Crete, Hood sunk, Barham soon to be sunk and QE/Valiant about to have a meeting with some Italian frogs.
_________________
"We went out, got our arses kicked, then came back again"
PostSun Apr 19, 2015 2:59 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
ticat1

_
 
MySingleNationClub
MyTheaterClub

Joined: 15 Apr 2010
Likes received: 818

Posts: 10680
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
Another issue was general untidiness on the ship.  There was a lack of discipline when it came to securing items about the ship and as a consequence the water pumps got clogged couldn't do their job.
_________________

Qui Tangit Frangitur

To you, from failing hands we throw the torch; be yours to hold it high
-John McCrae
PostSun Apr 19, 2015 4:21 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
Shinnentai

 

Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Likes received: 416

Posts: 11688
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
As others have posted, an unfortunate combination of flaws in her design and inadequate damage control measures. Here's a summary taken from British Aircraft Carriers by David Hobbs:

- The size of the hole caused by the torpedo was unusually large (130ft by 30ft), causing an initial list greater than anticipated (suggesting a failure in the internal anti-torpedo structure) - this may have been worsened by the delay in bringing Ark Royal to a halt as communications were cut with the engine rooms.

- Premature evacuation order (flooding of the main switchboard room and telephone exchange caused the loss of all lighting, electrical power and telephones, making the situation appear worse than it was). By the time the Captain ordered damage control parties to attempt to save the ship, several key men had already been taken off. Several manhole covers and armoured doors were also left open during the evacuation, increasing the rate of flooding.

- Lack of any diesel generators aboard, making the ship reliant on her boilers for electricity supply.

- Failure to keep Laforey alongside as insurance once power had been restored (she was supplying power for a time, but then cast off once damage control restored the port boiler room).

- Boiler room uptakes were routed beneath the lower hangar deck, therefore too vulnerable to flooding (had they been taken any higher they would have limited the number of aircraft carried). Once the uptakes flooded, the exhaust gases from the port boiler room built up, causing a fire and evacuation of the room, and loss of power for a 2nd time.

- Shortcomings in damage control measures (if the port engine and boiler rooms had been flooded once steam had failed this 2nd time, the ship would have been brought upright with enough buoyancy to make harbour. However the damage control procedures book gave no examples of lists greater than 8).
_________________
www.shinnentai.com


"...we shall prove ourselves once more able to defend our island home, to ride out the storm of war... if necessary for years, if necessary alone."
PostWed May 06, 2015 6:44 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
'Warspite'

 

Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Likes received: 12

Posts: 2896
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
Shinnentai wrote:


- Boiler room uptakes were routed beneath the lower hangar deck, therefore too vulnerable to flooding (had they been taken any higher they would have limited the number of aircraft carried). Once the uptakes flooded, the exhaust gases from the port boiler room built up, causing a fire and evacuation of the room, and loss of power for a 2nd time.



All are correct but the above was the killer factor. As the water rose in one boiler room it entered the uptake (chimney to the rest of us) and then poured down into the second boiler room and put the fires out. When the power died, the ship died.

Ark Royal is now taught as an exercise in damage control on RN training courses.
_________________
'Master and Commander' afloat on the seas of life...
PostWed May 06, 2015 11:51 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
'Warspite'

 

Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Likes received: 12

Posts: 2896
FLAGS




Post subject: Re: THE LOSS OF ARK ROYAL Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
HMS ARKROYAL wrote:
It has always puzzled me how this famous ship was lost to a single torpedo from a u boat.
Did it not have a torpedo bulge to protect against it or was it a very lucky hit from the u boat?
It certainly took a long time to sink after the initial hit from the torpedo.
So I presume flooding took hold quickly and the pumps could not cope?


As a general point most warships cannot cope with asymmetric longitudinal flooding.
The majority of WW1 and WW2 warship losses were capsizes.
Both Bluchers (WW1 and WW2)
Both Scharnhorsts
Gneisenau in WW1
Bismarck
HMS Barham
HMS Prince of Wales
HMS Repulse
HMS Royal Oak, etc

Capsize is why most warship damage control emphasised counter-flooding and/or throwing top hamper overboard.

Barry


_________________
'Master and Commander' afloat on the seas of life...
PostThu May 07, 2015 8:40 am
Back to top View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic



   Axis & Allies ForuMINI Forum Index » WAS General Discussion -> Naval Research

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Editor's Choice
Forumini Generals
All AAM cards
All AAAF Cards
All War At Sea Cards
Forumini Admirals
A20 World Rankings
1. Jcmonson 1066
1. Bean965 1038
3. Vergilius 1024
WAS World Rankings
1. Admiral Wannabee 1240
2. mnnorthstars 1170
3. Azrael 1120
AAM World Rankings
1. Lil Snips 1096
2. Tripwire 1021
3. Kawolski 1010
Friends
Official WoTC site
Richard Baker's new Blog
Le Forum de A&ANM
Riverside Gaming
A&A Underground
Top posters
Brigman 42738
weedsrock2 36854
Flakstruk 35335
RAEVSKI 26750
firesdstny 26685
Asbestos 24554
SWO_Daddy 23223
Solomiranthius 19325
NeuralDream 18234
nrnstraswa 17161
herky80 16512
Lt_V 16301
jfkziegler 15353
Swished3 14762
carrion 14490
LcdrSwizzle 13698
packertim 13611
DaJudge 13360
mnnorthstars 12784
The_lucky_Y 12511
danaussie 12161
Shinnentai 11688
hokiepastor 10867


Forumini Newsletter
Issue #10 (Sep. 2013)
Issue #9 (Sep. 2012)
Issue #8 (Dec. 2011)
Issue #7 (Sep. 2011)
Issue #6 (Apr. 2011)
Issue #5 (Christmas 2010)
Issue #4 (Dec. 2010)
Issue #3 (Jul. 2010)
Issue #2 (Apr. 2010)
Issue #1 (Feb. 2010)


Card File  Gallery  Forum Archive
Theme by: :: Cosmic Distortion ::
Powered by phpBB © 2001 phpBB Group
Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum