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Forumini Armies Aircraft basic stats guidelines
 
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NeuralDream

 
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Post subject: Forumini Armies Aircraft basic stats guidelines  Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
One aircraft miniature represents exactly one aircraft.


Before starting to add numbers, let's look at them theoretically.

When mentioning Speed, I don't mean their overall max speed, because this is achieved at very high altitudes, and in this game we assume that the aircraft fly just above strafing altitude (maybe 1,000m). Speed here refers to their max speed at 1,000m altitude.

The gunnery ranges for aircraft are 0-3, 4-5.

Anti-fighter
-------
Depends on Speed, Climb, Dive, Roll Rate, Turning ability, and firepower.

For fighters, it demonstrates the ability to get a kill in a dogfight. It is high at short and medium range, but drops considerably at long range because enemy fighters are small and nimble targets compared to enemy bombers.

Anti-bomber
-------
Depends on Speed, firepower and armour. It is high at all ranges for common 20mm cannon and very high for 30mm cannon even at long range, because enemy bombers are easy to hit even at 500+ m.

Anti-Infantry
--------------
Depends mainly on Guns. The following is a rather subjective choice of stats, as there is no real scentific study for the effectiveness of strafing on groups of soldiers. I assume that number of guns and caliber are equally important.

2x 7.92mm MG-17 -> 6/4/0  (e.g. BF109B2)
2x 12.7mm -> 6/4/0 (e.g. Ki.43II)
4x 7.92mm MG-17 -> 7/4/0  (e.g. BF109E1)
2x 7.92mm MG-17 + 1 or 2x 20mm MG/FF -> 7/5/0  (e.g. BF109E7, BF109F4)
4x 12.7mm -> 7/5/0  (e.g. Finnish B-239)
2x 7.7mm + 2x 12.7mm Browning -> 7/5/0  (e.g. Dutch B-339)
2x 7.7mm ShKas + 2x23mm Vya23 -> 7/6/0 (e.g. IL2 Type 3)
2x 7.7mm ShKas + 2x37mm NS-37 -> 7/6/0 (e.g. IL2 Type 3M)
4x 7.7mm + 2x 12.7mm Browning -> 8/5/0  (e.g. P40C)
4x 7.92mm MG-17 + 2x 20mm MG/FF -> 8/6/0  (e.g. BF110C4)
6x 12.7mm Browning -> 8/6/0  (e.g. P40E)
2x 13mm + 2x 20mm MG-151 -> 8/6/0 (e.g. FW190F8)
4x 20mm Hispano -> 8/6/0 (e.g. Spitfire Vc)
12x 0.303 Browning -> 9/5/0 (e.g. HurricaneIIb)
2x 13mm + 2x 20mm + 1x 30mm -> 9/7/0 (e.g. BF109G10)
2x 20mm + 2x 30mm -> 9/7/0 (e.g. BF110G4)
8x 12.7mm Browning -> 9/7/0 (e.g. P47D10)
2x 13mm MG-131 + 6x 20mm MG-151 -> 10/8/0 (e.g. FW190A9)

Anti-vehicle
----------
Depends only on armor penetration stats of the Guns. Unless this is the only type of gun ignore MGs below 10mm. Caliber is more important than number of guns.

Browning .30, Browning .303, ShKAS, MG 17, MG 81, Type 92, Type 97  -> (1-8x) 1/0/0  (9+) 1/1/0
Browning M2, UBS, UB(T), MG 131, Ho-103 Type 1, 13 mm Type 3, MG 151/15  -> (1-7) 1/1/0 (8+) 2/1/0
MG FF/M, Browning M3 -> 2/1/0
Hispano Mk. II, Hispano Mk. V, Hispano M3, ShVAK, ShVAK(S), B-20S, MG 151/20, Ho-3 Type 97, Type 99 model 1, Type 99 model 2, Ho-5 Type 1, Ho-3 Type 97  ->  (1-4x) 2/2/0 (5+) 3/2/0
Mk 108, Nudelman-Rikhter NR-23, VYa  -> 3/2/0
Ho 155, 30mm Type 5, Ho203 -> 4/3/0
Mk 103, Oldsmobile M4 -> 5/3/0
Vickers S, N37, Nudelman N-37  -> 7/4/0
NS 37 -> 7/5/0
BK 37  -> 8/5/0


Bomb
------
Depends on Bombload and only

2x 50 kg -> 2
1x 100 kg -> 2
1x 113 kg -> 2
4x 50 kg -> 3
2x 100 kg -> 3
1x 227 kg -> 3
1x 250 kg -> 3
2x 227kg  -> 4
2x 250 kg -> 4
6x 100 kg -> 4
1x 453 kg -> 5
1x 500 kg -> 5
2x 454 kg -> 6
2x 500 kg -> 6
1x 900 kg -> 6
2x 1000 kg -> 7
1x 1800 kg -> 8

Some bombers that were exceptionally accurate by design get the DIVE BOMBER S.A..


Defense
---------
Depends on Speed, Roll Rate, Turning ability and Armour.

For fighters, it demonstrates the ability to survive a dogfight by reducing the energy deficit against an enemy fighter that has the initial advantage. In practice, it is a highly subjective way to classify the fighters in a small number of categories:

2/3 -> Storch
3/3 -> PZL.23
3/4 -> P24, Ju87B
3/5 -> I-16, MS406, Hurricane I
4/5 -> Ki.43Ia, D.520
4/6 -> Bf109E1, early spits, MC.200, P-40, IAR80
4/7 -> MC.202, early-to-mid spits
5/7 -> 109F4, early Bf109G, MC.205, mid -war spits, early Mustangs
6/8 -> Bf109K4, BF109G10, late spits, Ki84, FW190D9, Tempest V

Speed
--------
The max. speed at 1km altitude.
See the list below for a number of aircraft.


S.A.s
------------

DEFENSIVE ARMAMENT 3: When this unit is attacked by enemy aircraft, it gets +1/+2 defense and it can make an immediate 5/4 attack against one of them.  [cost 2.2]

DEFENSIVE ARMAMENT 2: When this unit is attacked by enemy aircraft, it gets +1/+1 defense and it can make an immediate 4/3 attack against one of them.  [cost 1.8]

DEFENSIVE ARMAMENT 1: When this unit is attacked by enemy aircraft, it gets +0/+1 defense and it can make an immediate 4/2 attack against one of them.  [cost 1.0]

DIVE BOMBER: This unit gets +1 on each attack die when making Bomb attacks.  [cost 1.0]

BOOM & ZOOM: ...  [cost 2.0]

HEAVY ARMOR: Ignore the first Damaged counter this unit receives each game.  [cost 4.0]



Cost
____________
For the time being we'll use this simple one for the alpha phase of cardmaking:

Cost = [  8*(DamageDefense + DestroyDefense) + 5*(Bombs + Antivehicle) + 1*(Antisoldier + Antifighter + AntiBomber) +0.5*Speed ]  /  15  +  S.A. costs

Playtesting may dictate a more complex formula, such as the one suggested by AngelOfDeath.
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Last edited by NeuralDream on Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:35 pm; edited 74 times in total
PostSat Dec 20, 2008 3:21 pm
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NeuralDream

 
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Since air speed at 1km isn't obvious to find, I'll make a list based on my sources.
If each hex is 100m and movement phase lasts 1 minute, then 1km/h is the equivalent of 1/6 of a hex.

At altitude of 1,000m  (Aircraft, Speed in km/h, Speed translated in AAM [in case someone is crazy enough to play on 200x200-hex maps ])
------------------------
A5M4,415,69
A6M2-21,447,75
A6M3,477,80
A6M5,477,80
A6M7,477,80
BF109E4/B,481,80
BF109E4,491,82
BF109E7,492,82
BF109F2,528,88
BF109F4,537,90
BF109G10,589,98
BF109G14,586,98
BF109G2,548,91
BF109G6A/S,601,100
BF109G6,543,91
BF109K4,596,99
BF110C4,480,80
BF110G2,516,86
CR-42,356,59
DO335,630,105
F2A1,435,73
F2A2,468,78
F4F3,472,79
F4U-1A,568,95
F4U-1D,569,95
F6F-3,519,87
FM-2,472,79
FW190A4,559,93
FW190A5,587,98
FW190A8,583,97
FW190A9,606,101
FW190D9,628,105
FW190F8,569,95
G4M1-11,396,66
G-50,408,68
Gladiator II,361,60
Gladiator I,358,60
Hurricane II,432,72
Hurricane I,433,72
I-16 Type 16,426,71
I-16 Type 24,442,74
IAR-80,497,83
IAR-81A,490,82
IL-10,537,90
IL-2 1940,439,73
IL-2 1941,436,73
IL-2 I,422,70
IL-2 M3,410,68
J2M3,587,98
J2M5,588,98
JU87B2,354,59
JU87D3,365,61
JU87G1,348,58
JU88A4,408,68
KI-100 I,520,87
KI-27,421,70
KI-43 IA,442,74
KI-43 II,463,77
KI-61 I,494,82
KI-84IA,596,99
LA-5,566,94
LA-7,619,103
LAGG3-35,530,88
LAGG3-4,511,85
LAGG3-66,556,93
MC200,477,80
MC202,514,86
MC205,546,91
ME262,841,140
MIG-3,517,86
Mosquito FB VI,563,94
MS406,398,66
Morko Morane,453,76
N1K1J,562,94
N1K2JA,567,95
P11C,328,55
P-36A4,428,71
P-38J,574,96
P-38L,572,95
P-39D,560,93
P-39Q1,548,91
P-400,512,85
P-40B,477,80
P-40E,490,82
P-40M,488,81
P-47D10,552,92
P-47D22,553,92
P-47D27,583,97
P-51B,599,100
P-51C,602,100
P-51D20,614,102
P-63C,607,101
PE2-S1,472,79
PE3-S1,462,77
Spitfire Vb,477,80
Spitfire VIII,555,93
TA152-H1,613,102
Tempest V,625,104
YAK-1,491,82
YAK-3,586,98
YAK-7,492,82
YAK-9,542,90
YAK-9M,531,89
YAK-9K,535,89
YAK-9D,555,93
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PostSat Dec 27, 2008 4:15 pm
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Angel of Death

 

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Hi ND,

Here's some feedback. I hope you find it useful. Thanx for trying to build this from the ground up : that's hard work.


Any chance of more insight to what these numbers represent (i.e. Bombs / Rockets , and Speed rating) and how the cost is calculated ( Anti Soldier total : you mean 10 / 8 / 6 would add up to 24 and thus add only 2 points ?)

Also, any chance of insight on how you get to your defense ratings ? What is the theoretical basis for the defense values ? You seem to have a system for this, but it's not transparent. If you can make it transparant other people can help build aircraft.




On cost calculation : Defense should be valued higher, I think. A planes survivability should be an expensive factor, not something that costs nearly nothing. Every use and re-use of the aircraft depends on the sturdyness, (+ speed, roll, turn) of it.

Bombs should be valued lower (not only because they are 1 use only, but also because they cannot be used after a dogfight / strafing run as they would have been jettisoned before that). Especially in the current system, bombs are more of an afterthought. If they are expensive but not that useful (bombs 6.. why bother?, what do they do?), I dont want to pay points for them.



I think the calculation of the point value doesnt get good results. My basic and unrefined model of cost calculation (every model has faults, but let me try) looks more like this :

Cost = 8 + (Defense - 4) x 3  + ( Bomb value -4 / 4 ) + ( Rocket value / 4 ) + (Antitank short -2 + Antitank medium -1 + Antitank long ) /2 + (Antisoldier short - 8 + Antisoldier medium -6 + Antisoldier long - 4  (cannot be lower then 0) ) / 2  + ( Antifighter short - 8  + Antifighter medium -6 , + Antifighter long -4  (cannot be lower then 0) ) / 2  + (Antibomber short - 8 + Antibomber medium -6 + antibomber long -4 (cannot be lower then 0) / 2  + / - something for speed


Maybe an extremely long calculation, and one that needs some finetuning, but I think the calculation should be more susceptible to smaller deviations in values.


There should be a few 'prototype' aircraft with tried and tested values, to build the model with (maybe even a different model for Spotter - aircraft, Dive-bombers, Fighters, Fighterbombers, tactical Bombers and strategic bombers/transports).

Everything deviating from the norm should have that difference put to value. Sometimes extra die for ground attack (8 or 10?) is a big deal, worth a lot more then +- 0,167 points.
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PostSun Dec 28, 2008 3:11 am
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NeuralDream

 
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Hi AoD, I agree that the cost system is far from perfect, so I will first make many aircraft with this simplistic formula and then let someone else (maybe you?) find the costing formula. I really don't care about costs at all, as I play AAM and WAS without costs.

I will now try to make the guidelines for stats. Check again in a few hours Smile.
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PostTue Dec 30, 2008 11:55 pm
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Angel of Death

 

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Good luck ! Any chance of the P-47 in there somewhere as an archetype aircraft ? Razz
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PostWed Dec 31, 2008 1:16 am
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NeuralDream

 
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This will be a difficult aircraft. Quite slow and not at all manoeuvrable at altitude of 1km, yet able to withstand unreal punishment. I tend towards defense 5 for the early 47D and 6 for the late 47D, but I will have to look into the details of each model. They would all get the ability Boom n Zoom. I don't think it can serve as an archetype, because it's not easy to make Razz.



Btw, in reply to a comment of yours that I somehow missed, bomb 6 means that you roll 6 dice against the top defense of an enemy vehicle. That's a lot of dice for many tanks Wink.
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PostWed Dec 31, 2008 1:26 am
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Sharpe

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What about the Blackburn Roc?
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PostWed Dec 31, 2008 2:40 am
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lotharlutjens

 

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This looks pretty good ND.
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PostWed Dec 31, 2008 3:30 am
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NeuralDream

 
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I reduced the Anti-infantry strafing values by a bit. Now the max is 9 at range 0-3.
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PostWed Dec 31, 2008 9:51 am
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NeuralDream

 
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I reduced the Anti-vehicle values. Now the max is 7/5/0 for Stuka G-1.
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PostMon Jan 05, 2009 1:51 pm
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Zeus

 

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Just a small note: The Ho203 appears in the list twice, with 4/3/0 and 5/3/0 stats  Smile .
PostWed Feb 11, 2009 9:22 pm
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NeuralDream

 
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Zeus wrote:
Just a small note: The Ho203 appears in the list twice, with 4/3/0 and 5/3/0 stats  Smile .

Thanks for spotting this. It would had created problems later. The correct one is 4/3/0 Smile.


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