| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Posts: 9282
|
|
|
Post subject: Vehicle stats guidelines
|
 |
|
DEFENSE (front, side, rear, top)
There are four defense values (front, side, rear, top).
For front, side and rear we calculate the effective armor as
defense = thickness / cos (angle)
Angle is 0° when there is no slope and it's 90° when it's parallel to the ground.
Consider round armor to be the equivalent of +15 degrees of angle.
Consider top armor to be at 45 degrees always (ignore relevant angle data and use 45 instead). This represents the approximate angle of a strafing attack.
Effective armor
--------------
Unarmored = defense 1/2
up to 10mm = defense 1/3
10.1-12.5mm = defense 2/3
12.6-15mm = defense 2/4
15.1-20mm = defense 2/5
20.1-25mm = defense 3/5
25.1-30mm = defense 3/6
30.1-35mm = defense 3/7
35.1-40mm = defense 4/7
40.1-45mm = defense 4/8
45.1-50mm = defense 4/9
50.1-55mm = defense 5/9
55.1-60mm = defense 5/10
60.1-65mm = defense 5/11
65.1-72mm = defense 6/11
72.1-80mm = defense 6/12
80.1-85mm = defense 6/13
85.1-93mm = defense 7/13
93.1-102mm = defense 7/14
102.1-110mm = defense 7/15
110.1-118mm = defense 8/15
118.1-127mm = defense 8/16
127.1-135mm = defense 8/17
135.1-143mm = defense 9/17
143.1-152mm = defense 9/18
152.1-160mm = defense 9/19
160.1-168mm = defense 10/19
168.1-177mm = defense 10/20
177.1-185mm = defense 10/21
185.1-193mm = defense 11/21
193.1-202mm = defense 11/22
202.1-210mm = defense 11/23
210.1-220mm = defense 12/23
220.1-230mm = defense 12/24
230.1-240mm = defense 12/25
...
* For front defense use the average of Hull front, Turret front, Superstructure front, Mantlet front
* For side defense use the average of Hull side and Turret side
* For rear defense use the average of Hull rear and Turret rear
* For top defense use the superstructure only
SPEED
We use both offroad speed and on-road speed:
speed = 0.06 * (offroad + onroad speed in km/h)
high-gear bonus = 0.09 * (onroad speed in km/h) - 0.06 * (offroad speed in km/h) - 1
ANTI-VEHICLE ATTACK
Available ranges (0-1) / (2-4) / (5-8) / (9-12) / (13 - 17) / (18 - 24)
There are two factors that we take into account:
Penetration at each distance and Accuracy (muzzle velocity)
Penetration
-------------
up to 12mm -> 1 die (rifles and 7.7mm MGs are here)
13-14mm -> 2 dice (12.7mm MGs are here)
15-17mm -> 3 dice
18-21mm -> 4 dice
22-25mm -> 5 dice
26-30mm -> 6 dice
31-35mm -> 7 dice
36-40mm -> 8 dice
41-50mm -> 9 dice
51-60mm -> 10 dice
61-70mm -> 11 dice
71-80mm -> 12 dice
81-90mm -> 13 dice
91-100mm -> 14 dice
101-115mm -> 15 dice
116-130mm -> 16 dice
131-150mm -> 17 dice
151-170mm -> 18 dice
171-200mm -> 19 dice
201-230mm -> 20 dice
231-270mm -> 21 dice
Accuracy (Muzzle Velocity)
------------------------------
up to 500m/s : Reduce all Anti-Vehicle values by 20% (multiply by 0.8)
ANTI-SOLDIER ATTACK
For tanks
----------
ranges (0-1) / (2-4) / (5-8)
1x7.62mm flexible -> 6/5/4
1x12.7mm flexible -> 7/6/5
2x7.7mm flexible -> 8/7/6
3-4x7.7mm flexible -> 9/8/7
For armored cards
----------
1x 7.7mm -> 8/7/6
2x 7.7mm or 1x7.7mm + 20mm autocannon -> 9/8/7
COST
This may change, but to start with something reasonable:
cost = [ 0.1* (Sum of defenses)^1.28 + 0.1* (Sum of attacks)^1.12 ]^ (1+ 0.01* speed + 0.005*high-gear)
Additional cost for S.A.s
_________________
 
My new blog, specialised in the military equipment of Greece (1821-today).
Last edited by NeuralDream on Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:06 pm; edited 32 times in total |
|
 Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:15 pm |
|
|
Posts: 9282
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
Armor penetration data for specific guns
-----------------------------------------------
(GERMANY)
GUN TYPE and AMMO TYPE --[MUZZLE VELOCITY]-- Penetration @ 100m / @ 500m / @1000m / @1500m /@2000m
* 2cm KwK30 & 38 L/55, and 2cm FlaK 30 & 38 L/112.5 2cm Pzgr --[780 m/s]-- /20mm /14mm /9mm /X /X
* Same as above 2cm Pzgr40 --[1050 m/s]-- 49mm/ 20mm /X /X /X
* 2.8cm sPzB41 2.8cm Pzgr41 --[1430 m/s]-- 60mm/ 40mm /19mm/ X/ X
* 3.7cm PaK35/36 L/45 and 3.7cm KwKL/46.5 3.7cm Pzgr --[745 m/s ]-- 34mm /29mm/ 22mm/ 19mm /X
* Same as above 3.7cm Pzgr40 --[1020m/s]-- 64mm/ 34mm/ X/ X/ X/
* 3.7cm KwK34(t) (A3) L/40 3.7cm Pzgr --[690 m/s]-- 37mm /31mm/ 26mm /22mm/ X
* 3.7cm KwK38(t) (A7) L/47.8 3.7cm Pzgr --[750 m/s]-- 41mm /35mm/ 29mm/ 24mm/ X
* Same as above 3.7cm Pzgr40 --[1040 m/s]-- 64mm/ 34mm/ X/ X/ X
* 3.7cm FlaK43 L/89 3.7cm Pzgr18 --[770 m/s]-- 35mm/ 28mm /21mm/ 17mm /X
* 4.7cm PaK (t) L/43/4 Pzgr36(t) --[782 m/s]-- 54mm/ 48mm /41mm/ 35mm /X
* Same as above Pzgr40 --[1080 m/s]-- 100mm/ 59mm/ X /X/ X
* 5cm KwK38 L/42 Pzgr39 --[685 m/s]-- 54mm /46mm/ 36mm 28mm 22mm
* Same as above Pzgr40 --[1060 m/s]-- 96mm /58mm/ X /X/ X/
* 5cm KwK39 L/60 Pzgr39 --[835 m/s]-- 67mm /57mm/ 44mm 34mm 26mm
* Same as above Pzgr40 --[1180 m/s]-- 130mm/ 72mm/ 38mm /X/ X/
* 5cm PaK38 L/60 Pzgr39 --[835 m/s]-- 67mm/ 57mm/ 44mm/ 34mm /26mm
* Same as above Pzgr40 --[1180 m/s]-- 130mm /72mm/ 38mm /X /X
* 7.5cm KwK37 L/24 and 7.5cm StuK37 L/24 K Gr rot Pz --[385 m/s]-- 41mm /39mm/ 35mm /33mm/ 30mm
* Same as above Gr38 H1/A --[450 m/s]-- 70mm/ X/ X /X/ X/
* Same as above Gr38 H1/B --[450 m/s]-- 75mm/ X/ X /X/ X/
* Same as above Gr38 H1/C --[450 m/s]-- 100mm/ X/ X /X/ X/
* 7.5cm KwK40 L/43 and 7.5cm StuK40 L/43 Pzgr39 --[740 m/s]-- 98mm/ 91mm/ 82mm/ 72mm/ 63mm
* Same as above Pzgr40 --[920 m/s]-- 126mm/ 108mm/ 87mm /69mm /X
* 7.5cm KwK40 L/48 & 7.5cm StuK40 L/48; 7.5cm PaK40 L/46 & 7.5cm PaK39 L/48 Pzgr39 --[760 m/s]-- 106mm /96mm/ 85mm /74mm/ 64mm
* Same as above Pzgr40 --[990 m/s]-- 143mm /120mm /97mm/ 77mm /X
* 7.5cm KwK42 L/70 and 7.5cm StuK42 L/70 Pzgr39/42 --[925 m/s]-- 138mm /124mm/ 111mm /99mm/ 89mm
* Same as above Pzgr40/42 --[1120 m/s]-- 194mm/ 174mm/ 149mm /127mm /106mm
* 7.62cm PaK36(r) L/51.5 Pzgr39 --[720 m/s]-- 98mm/ 90mm 82mm 73mm 65mm
* Same as above Pzgr40 --[960 m/s]-- 135mm/ 116mm/ 94mm /75mm /58mm
* 8.8cm FlaK18 and 37 L/98 Pzgr --[810 m/s]-- 97mm/ 93mm/ 87mm/ 80mm /72mm
* Same as above Pzgr39 --[800 m/s]-- 127mm/ 117mm/ 106mm 97mm 88mm
* 8.8cm KwK36 L/56 Pzgr39 --[773 m/s]-- 120mm/ 110mm/ 100mm /91mm/ 84mm/
* Same as above Pzgr40 --[930 m/s]-- 171mm /156mm /138mm /123mm/ 110mm
* 8.8cm PaK43 L/71 and 8.8cm KwK 43 L/71 Pzgr39-1 --[1000 m/s]-- 203mm /185mm /165mm /148mm /132mm
* Same as above Pzgr40/43 --[1130 m/s]-- 237mm /217mm/ 193mm /171mm /153mm
* 10cm K18 Pzgr rot --[805 m/s]-- 164mm /149mm /133mm /119mm /109mm
* 10.5cm leFH18 L/23 and 10.5cm StuH 42 L/28 Pzgr --[470 m/s]-- 63mm /59mm /54mm/ 50mm /46mm
* Same as above Gr39 H1/A --[497 m/s]-- 80mm/ X/ X /X/ X/
* Same as above Gr39 H1/B --[495 m/s]-- 90mm /X/ X /X/ X
* Same as above Gr39 H1/C --[495 m/s]-- 100mm X/ X /X/ X
* 12.8cm K40 L/61 Pzgr --[880 m/s]-- 201mm/ 176mm/ 150mm/ 132mm /120mm/
* 12.8cm PaK44 L/55 Pzgr --[860 m/s]-- 189mm /166mm/ 143mm/ 127mm /117mm
* Same as above Pzgr43 --[845 m/s]-- 187mm/ 178mm/ 167mm/ 157mm/ 148mm
* 15cm sIG33 L/11 and 15cm StuH43 L/12 Gr39 H1/A --[280 m/s]-- 160mm/ X/ X/ X/ X
* 15cm sFH13 L/17 Gr39 H1/A --[460 m/s]-- 160mm /X/ X /X/ X
* 15cm sFH18 L/29.6 Gr39 H1/A --[465 m/s]-- 160mm /X/ X /X/ X
_________________
My new blog, specialised in the military equipment of Greece (1821-today). |
|
| Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:50 am |
|
|
Posts: 585
|
|
|
| Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:28 am |
|
|
Posts: 89
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
Just wondering: when you say "hull front", do you use upper hull only, or the average of upper and lower hull, or another method?
Also, do you take the mantlet into account?
I statted my units using equal share for lower hull, upper hull, turret front and mantlet, but I'm in doubt whether the lower hull should get a lower share (it could be hit, but the upper hull and turret would be hit more often I expect, the upper hull being the largest visible target and the turret being what you'd probably aim for). Something like (1x lower hull + 2x upper hull) / 3 to get the average hull armor. |
|
| Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:53 am |
|
|
Posts: 9282
|
|
|
| Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:40 am |
|
|
Posts: 89
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
I think there IS no "bad idea" in this, as long as you apply it consistently to all units, so they all feel correct relative to each other  .
Having said this, the mantlet does constitute a large part of what you see when you look at the front turret, and the superstructure would probably be hit more often than the lower hull, which would only really be visible in clear terrain.
I'm not a tank driver (assuming Battlefield 1942 doesn't count  ), but I think I would either aim at the middle of the tank (as tariff.net calls it: upper hull, or as onwar calls it: superstructure) to increase my chances of hitting at all, or at the turret to increase the chance of killing the commander and damaging the main gun. You would probably only aim specifically at the lower hull when shooting at the side and trying to immobilize.
I'm thinking of using the formula (1x lower hull + 2x upper hull + 2x turret front + 1x mantlet) / 6 for the front ( (1x lower hull + 2x upper hull + 1x mantlet) / 4 for no-turret vehicles). Extensive playtesting is the only way to be even remotely sure that the mix feels right  . |
|
| Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:32 am |
|
|
Posts: 9282
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
Ok, but I'd prefer (lower + upper + turret + mantler) /4, which is not only simpler, but also (sort of) takes into account the fact that the attacker aims at a specific part of the enemy tank, so it's not completely random (assuming that your 1,2,2,1 weights correspond to random hit). Otherwise, we'll have the unwanted effect of a tank that is impossible to kill from the front although in reality an enemy could disable it by hitting a specific part of it. The "2" weights for the heavily-armoured parts maximise the probability of this problem appearing.
_________________
My new blog, specialised in the military equipment of Greece (1821-today). |
|
| Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:49 am |
|
|
Posts: 89
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
Good point, and I agree.
Saves me redoing all defenses too, as I already used that method .
Edit: I checked my Excel sheet, and it seems that about 80-90% of the vehicles in there had more or less the same armor on upper and lower hull anyway.
The mantlet BTW is often the best protected part of the tank, especially for the heavier tanks. |
|
| Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:55 pm |
|
|
Posts: 9282
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
Front defense guidelines updated according to the discussion with zeus.
_________________
My new blog, specialised in the military equipment of Greece (1821-today). |
|
| Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:07 pm |
|
|
|
