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| Tripwire wrote: | "If she WERE alive. . ." not "If she was alive. . ."  |
Me just dead laughing
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Lieber eine flotte Rote als die rote Flotte! |
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 Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:59 am |
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START THE PURPLE!
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I KNEW one of you would catch that. Mom would be so proud.
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| Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:49 pm |
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| Cpt. John Miller wrote: | | These plus a Pillbox and a good overwatch hex make the 88 a nifty unit depending on the map and especially in early war games. |
The 88 is the only thing I've been able to use to beat a Char B1 in a 1940 battle. (Wermacht Sniper and anti-tank guns are another option, but that darned Panhard P178 has always killed either my sniper or anti-tank guns.) I almost don't want a new set to come out if the frogs get an aircraft in it. It will make fights against the French just that much harder. |
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| Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:34 am |
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"Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak, Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." - Churchill
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And y'all thought the frenchies couldn't fight....
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"Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak, Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." - Churchill
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| Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:02 am |
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AHF Silver-Rated Trader
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| acs0424 wrote: | | And y'all thought the frenchies couldn't fight.... |
They just have to introduce a Phone boot... that as to be use every time a Soldier/Commander/Tank what to move or shoot.
They could also introduce the Gas Station for B1-Bis...
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Remember-OWS-
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| Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:13 am |
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"Earn This."
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I personally believe that the 88 and all artillery should have a minimum of Relocate 1. It's just lame when you can't use your 88 on some maps to counter the Char B1. I have been able to take down Chars with Elite Panzer IVs and Panzer IIIs but if they have 2 or more then the Germans have to go Infantry heavy in games vs. the French early war. The French also got a 5/5 and a machine gun in the last few sets so they're damn good in pre-42 games.
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| Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:19 am |
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AHF Gold-Rated Trader
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Not too fond of 88mm against the France because of the map layout and it can be taken down with the Panhard.
I played a couple of early battles between France and Germany. Last game played my team was experimenting to take down the French armor using transports (Kubelwagon V/SD Kfz 231) with mounted Soldiers (Panzergrenadier, Flammewerfer35, PAK 35/36 ATG, Pioneers). With the new stacking rules you can move your transports in for CA by:
1.) If the opposing tank is already disrupted you can move in a Soldier mounted on a cheap transport (Jeep/Kubelwagon) in the same hex for Close Assault.
2.) For an undisrupted tank, this can be done if you have at least two cheap transports with mounted Soldiers. For example, a PAK 35/36 ATG towed by a Kubelwagon. Move the Kubelwagon into the same hex as the opposing tank. If the tank defensive fires on the Kubelwagon then have the PAK 35/36 dismount for Assault. Otherwise move into the hex of the tank and dismount the PAK 35/36. If the first Kubelwagon has been halted due to defensive fire then have the second transport move into the tank hex to Close Assault.
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| Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:41 am |
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"Earn This."
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| hey_yu wrote: | With the new stacking rules you can move your transports in for CA by:
1.) If the opposing tank is already disrupted you can move in a Soldier mounted on a cheap transport (Jeep/Kubelwagon) in the same hex for Close Assault.
2.) For an undisrupted tank, this can be done if you have at least two cheap transports with mounted Soldiers. For example, a PAK 35/36 ATG towed by a Kubelwagon. Move the Kubelwagon into the same hex as the opposing tank. If the tank defensive fires on the Kubelwagon then have the PAK 35/36 dismount for Assault. Otherwise move into the hex of the tank and dismount the PAK 35/36. If the first Kubelwagon has been halted due to defensive fire then have the second transport move into the tank hex to Close Assault. |
You would think that was how it works but actually it's been clarified on the other boards.
At the end of any phase in which there is an overstack, the opponent of the player that caused the overstack may choose any of that player's units in the overstacked hex to receive an immediate face up disruption counter. Units mounted in transports can receive this counter as well. With this clarification it's not as effective of a strategy as you might think even with the new stacking rules.
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| Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:59 am |
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| hey_yu wrote: | ...
2.) For an undisrupted tank, this can be done if you have at least two cheap transports with mounted Soldiers. For example, a PAK 35/36 ATG towed by a Kubelwagon. Move the Kubelwagon into the same hex as the opposing tank. If the tank defensive fires on the Kubelwagon then have the PAK 35/36 dismount for Assault. Otherwise move into the hex of the tank and dismount the PAK 35/36. If the first Kubelwagon has been halted due to defensive fire then have the second transport move into the tank hex to Close Assault. |
This can turn out costly in the end. You can loose the entire assault in one wave if the B1 Bis annihilate the first Kub/Pak assault. The second may come in, if remaining movement points are available, but if the French Commander is doing his planning right, he will not only put 1 B1-Bis but rather 2 or 3.
If the French army gets his airplane, I am afraid that the combo, kub/pak will not survive long enough to do any harm to the "Bis".
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Last edited by Remember-OWS- on Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:02 am |
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| Cpt. John Miller wrote: |
You would think that was how it works but actually it's been clarified on the other boards.
At the end of any phase in which there is an overstack, the opponent of the player that caused the overstack may choose any of that player's units in the overstacked hex to receive an immediate face up disruption counter. Units mounted in transports can receive this counter as well. With this clarification it's not as effective of a strategy as you might think even with the new stacking rules. |
Please point this out to me. The rules in the rule update clearly states receiving a face-down hit counter for an overstack hex for an overstack hex at the end of the Movement and/or Assault phase.
http://www.wizards.com/avalonhill/rules/AAM_Updates.pdf
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| Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:03 am |
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| Remember-OWS- wrote: |
This can turn out costly in the end. You can loose the entire assault in one wave if the B1 Bis annihilate the first Kub/Pak assault. The second may come in, if remaining movement points are available, but if the French Commander is doing his planning right, he will not only put 1 B1-Bis but rather 2 or 3.
If the French army gets his airplane, I am afraid that the combo, kub/pak will survive long enough to do any harm to the "Bis". |
It's not a blind charge to move them in. With 5 movement and a couple of turns you can move them in close. As for the point exchange, take in consideration the point cost.
Char [21PT]
[8PT] Kubelwagon with Pak 35/36 or Flammewerfer
[7PT] Kubelwagon with Panzergrenadier
[15PT]
You're still up 6PT.
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Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. |
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| Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:06 am |
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| hey_yu wrote: | | Remember-OWS- wrote: |
This can turn out costly in the end. You can loose the entire assault in one wave if the B1 Bis annihilate the first Kub/Pak assault. The second may come in, if remaining movement points are available, but if the French Commander is doing his planning right, he will not only put 1 B1-Bis but rather 2 or 3.
If the French army gets his airplane, I am afraid that the combo, kub/pak will survive long enough to do any harm to the "Bis". |
It's not a blind charge to move them in. With 5 movement and a couple of turns you can move them in close. As for the point exchange, take in consideration the point cost.
Char [21PT]
[8PT] Kubelwagon with Pak 35/36 or Flammewerfer
[7PT] Kubelwagon with Panzergrenadier
[15PT]
You're still up 6PT. |
Ah point for point it's a feasible tactic I never said the contrary, but bear in mind that now the French army will finally have his plane to counter grand movement.
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Remember-OWS-
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| Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:08 am |
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Yes and the Germans can have a SD Kfz 7/1 or other Anti-air means. The French player(s) can decide to risk using their planes to shoot up a 7/8PT transport.
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Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. |
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| Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:13 am |
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| hey_yu wrote: | | Not too fond of 88mm against the France because of the map layout and it can be taken down with the Panhard. |
I'm usually able to keep the Panhards from getting into the extreme rear with a couple of 88's and one or two lighter anti-tank guns on overwatch and scattered MG's covering approaches to the rear. It's a danger, of course, but it's not a certainty like the board control in the middle of the battlefield that the Panhard player gets in every game.
| Cpt. John Miller wrote: | | I have been able to take down Chars with Elite Panzer IVs and Panzer IIIs but if they have 2 or more then the Germans have to go Infantry heavy in games. |
Darn scale difference. *grumble* Infantry heavy is what I usually use, as the one nice thing (from Germany's perspective) about the French tanks is that they don't have very good infantry attacks. (They're also slow, but since they usually don't have to worry about German guns much in 1940 unless you play the 88 that isn't a huge problem for them.)
Last edited by Johnny_Thunders on Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:22 am |
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| hey_yu wrote: | | Yes and the Germans can have a SD Kfz 7/1 or other Anti-air means. The French player(s) can decide to risk using their planes to shoot up a 7/8PT transport. |
This is not a obvious task, but that means a good portion of the German tactic have to rely on the fact that at least, in your calculation, ±30 points of rapid assault (kub/pak, kub/Flam) plus the SdKfz 7/1, 16 additional points, will have to face 2 or 3 B1-Bis.
I would ask for the old 2" map to be use, for a better chance of pincer or flank attack, but it is a nice task to achieve and rewarding to put down a B1-Bis this way and probably more effective than bringing a Flak 88 so fragile.
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| Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:24 am |
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"Earn This."
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| hey_yu wrote: | | Cpt. John Miller wrote: |
You would think that was how it works but actually it's been clarified on the other boards.
At the end of any phase in which there is an overstack, the opponent of the player that caused the overstack may choose any of that player's units in the overstacked hex to receive an immediate face up disruption counter. Units mounted in transports can receive this counter as well. With this clarification it's not as effective of a strategy as you might think even with the new stacking rules. |
Please point this out to me. The rules in the rule update clearly states receiving a face-down hit counter for an overstack hex for an overstack hex at the end of the Movement and/or Assault phase.
http://www.wizards.com/avalonhill/rules/AAM_Updates.pdf |
http://community.wizards.com/go/t...se_Assault_from_Fighting_Platform
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| Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:41 am |
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Again, we are still experimenting with this and usually play larger point games with Germans vs French/British. So, we faced British planes before.
I think it depends on how it's done. For this tactic in the 1940 German vs France.case instance I think you have a decent mechanized force depending on the point battle. For example in a 100PT you could go for:
[26PT] Panzer III x2
[21PT] SD Kfz 231 x3
[12PT] Kubelwagon V x4
[8PT] Panzergrenadier x2
[10PT] Flammenwerfer 35 x2
[8PT] Grizzled Veteran
[15PT] Wehrmacht Veteran Infantrymen x3
[100PT]
Panzer III to provide smoke for cover. Everyone is mobile. The Panzer III and SD Kfz with mounted Soldiers can shoot at any planes. The mechanization allows you to bear your whole force to take on vehicles and soldiers.
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James 1:17
Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. |
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| Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:44 am |
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Thanks for the link. However, the answer to the inquiry was whether or not a transported unit can receive a hit. It does not state if the hit is a face-down or face-up counter. The update rules states it is a face-down counter. So, the unit will not be immediately disrupted unless you can point to me another reference. The rule update reference is my other post if you want to check it.
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James 1:17
Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. |
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| Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:47 am |
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| Johnny_Thunders wrote: | | hey_yu wrote: | | Not too fond of 88mm against the France because of the map layout and it can be taken down with the Panhard. |
I'm usually able to keep the Panhards from getting into the extreme rear with a couple of 88's and one or two lighter anti-tank guns on overwatch and scattered MG's covering approaches to the rear. It's a danger, of course, but it's not a certainty like the board control in the middle of the battlefield that the Panhard player gets in every game.
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Usually the Strike and Fade can put the 88 out the misery.
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James 1:17
Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. |
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| Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:53 am |
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| hey_yu wrote: |
Usually the Strike and Fade can put the 88 out the misery. |
We let the German player use the MG-42 as an MG-34, so that may be affecting my experiences facing the Panhard.
Usually in my games the Panhards will operate at long range for the first few turns until they manage to disrupt the MG-42's and let French Alpine Troops march in to take the objective. At that point the French player is able to move the Panhards into the rear and attack my 88's. But if it gets to that point I've lost already. The German player has to be aggressive to win. |
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| Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:42 am |
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