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SOCCEROO FEVER
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good
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 Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:52 am |
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whatever...
still think Outstanding Air support is too strong for any CV (especially when coupled with Avengers attacking a Battleship) |
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| Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:53 am |
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AHF Bronze-Rated Trader
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| Rengokuy wrote: | whatever...
still think Outstanding Air support is too strong for any CV (especially when coupled with Avengers attacking a Battleship) |
I understand. The limitation is the other carrier has to be in the same sector as the Puncher. That forces trade-offs of its own. It might be a bit strong, but I don't think it is overpowering. It might be an escort carrier someone would actually want to use. 13 points plus the cost of an aircraft is fairly expensive for a capacity one carrier.
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| Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:25 am |
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I just went through the Puncher's history. She conducted training missions, provided air cover for convoys, and conducted air strikes on land and sea targets. Her sister, the Nabob, was the ASW specialist (10 points).
I assume the Outstanding Air Support SA is related to her training days, in some way. I'm afraid I can't really find anything to support it, though. If anything, the ability should allow other carriers to gain her SA's, since she had the teachers. I don't know.
Looking at her history, I'd steal the Fighter Director SA from the Alaska and the Alternate Payload Drill SA from the Casablanca class thread.
HMS* Puncher (* Split British/Canadian roundel)
available from September 1943
Cost 13
Capacity 1
Speed 1
Main 3/3/2
AA 5
Armor 2/8/3
Fighter Director, Alternate Payload Drill
Fighter Director - Once per turn, you may choose a friendly Fighter within range 3 that aborted or destroyed an enemy Aircraft this turn. That Fighter may move to a sector it's adjacent to that contains an enemy Aircraft and make an Antiair attack with a -1 on each attack die against that Aircraft.
Alternate Payload Drill - Once per turn, you may choose a friendly Torpedo Bomber with an Alternate Payload ability. That Torpedo Bomber can make an Alternate Payload Bomb attack instead of a Torpedo attack during your Air Attack step.
Edit... I meant to say Puncher, not Nabob. Nabob should have Expert ASW for 10 points.
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Last edited by chesty on Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:36 am |
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Alternate Payload Drill is unclear to me. Does that mean you can do an Alternate Payload attack even if you have already done it once?
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| Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:02 pm |
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| chesty wrote: | I just went through the Puncher's history. She conducted training missions, provided air cover for convoys, and conducted air strikes on land and sea targets. Her sister, the Nabob, was the ASW specialist (10 points).
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So are you saying Nabob should get Expert ASW instead of Puncher? Should we remove Expert ASW from Puncher and drop the cost?
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| Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:04 pm |
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| weedsrock2 wrote: | | Alternate Payload Drill is unclear to me. Does that mean you can do an Alternate Payload attack even if you have already done it once? |
Yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. This ship can arm its Torpedo Bombers with bombs every turn, if the player chooses to. It appears to have been a common practice, judging from all the different carrier histories I've been reading, so I'm also suggesting that it shouldn't cost much. I'll defer to our experts on cost, but I certainly don't think Fighter Director and Alternate Payload Drill should cost as much as Fighter Cover and Expert ASW. Should they?
| weedsrock2 wrote: | | So are you saying Nabob should get Expert ASW instead of Puncher? Should we remove Expert ASW from Puncher and drop the cost? |
Yes. I think Puncher should get Fighter Director and Alternate Payload Drill for less than 14 points, and I think Nabob should get Expert ASW for 10 points. That would fit their histories and give us useful units.
Best I could think of, for our Maple Leaf kin. 
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| Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:57 am |
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So now where are we?
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| Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:42 pm |
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| weedsrock2 wrote: | | So now where are we? |
Mexico
I'd say just finish Puncher .... |
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| Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:50 pm |
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| Rengokuy wrote: | | weedsrock2 wrote: | | So now where are we? |
Mexico
I'd say just finish Puncher .... |
But with Chesty's revision? What would be the cost. We have to go through RAEVSKI's approval again.
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| Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:16 am |
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| is he suggesting that any bomber can become a torpedo bobmer? |
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| Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:43 am |
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| Rengokuy wrote: | | is he suggesting that any bomber can become a torpedo bobmer? |
Just the opposite. But it assumes the torpedo bomber has a bomb alternate payload. Some don't. So how many dice would you use?
I think this one is back to the drawing board.
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| Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:50 am |
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I don't particualy like an SA that can give an attack like that.
If the torp bomber gets an alternate payload (barracuda was designed for both), then thats ok. But giving it to a plane,...im not buying.
Swordfish acting as divebombers.....just wouldn't happen, teh plane physically can't do it....as level bombers thhey'd be even worse, true they may be able to carry a heavy bomb, but they'd be no where near as accurate as a dive bomber.
What else, Avengers....maybe, they are a better platform than a swordfish. Maybe they can preform a dive bombing run, but overall, Torpedo Bombers just aren't dive bombers. |
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| Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:55 am |
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Guys, look. See the part in italics?
Alternate Payload Drill - Once per turn, you may choose a friendly Torpedo Bomber with an Alternate Payload ability. That Torpedo Bomber can make an Alternate Payload Bomb attack instead of a Torpedo attack during your Air Attack step.
I've been reading so many ship histories, lately. I keep seeing references to Torpedo Bomber squadrons loading up with bombs for strike missions, usually against land targets. In game terms, they were sending their squadrons out with Alternate Payloads every turn. Why can't we?
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| Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:58 am |
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| Rengokuy wrote: | | is he suggesting that any bomber can become a torpedo bobmer? |
Other way around, and only the ones with an Alternate Payload SA, just to be clear. 
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| Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:05 am |
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| chesty wrote: | | Rengokuy wrote: | | is he suggesting that any bomber can become a torpedo bobmer? |
Other way around, and only the ones with an Alternate Payload SA, just to be clear. |
I'm confused, if teh aircraft already has alternate payload....then, what is teh SA doing?
Also, bombing a land target is way differnt than bombing a ship |
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| Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:08 am |
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| Rengokuy wrote: | | chesty wrote: | | Rengokuy wrote: | | is he suggesting that any bomber can become a torpedo bobmer? |
Other way around, and only the ones with an Alternate Payload SA, just to be clear. |
I'm confused, if teh aircraft already has alternate payload....then, what is teh SA doing?
Also, bombing a land target is way differnt than bombing a ship |
Alternate Payload is once per game. Alternate Payload Drill is once per turn.
The bomb dice for Alternate Payload attacks already suffer enough in comparison to Dive Bomber attack dice that I'm not all that motivated to adjust anything. Close enough. 
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| Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:30 am |
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are we doing the card or the thread is dead?    |
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| Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:00 pm |
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Nothing but Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash.
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| I fail at making cards wrote: | | are we doing the card or the thread is dead? |
We'll do the card, sometimes we just stall out a little bit. One of the most important bits that card proposers need to do is just what you've done, keep the thread alive. If it looks like we've stalled, go back to the last viable set of stats we had and repost it, that usually focuses the discussion.
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| Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:17 pm |
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SOCCEROO FEVER
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| swarbs wrote: | | I fail at making cards wrote: | | are we doing the card or the thread is dead? |
We'll do the card, sometimes we just stall out a little bit. One of the most important bits that card proposers need to do is just what you've done, keep the thread alive. If it looks like we've stalled, go back to the last viable set of stats we had and repost it, that usually focuses the discussion. |
This is exactly what i was talking about when i wanted to re jig the process.
It is up to weeds now
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| Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:57 pm |
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