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"My dear general, the war can now only be won by the politicians." Von Rundstedt to Kurt Meyer.
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I've been following this thread for a while now. I'm no Wizard business man, just a scenario designer who loves this game. And others.
A question to our community: Why kill a game 
As the restaurant owner that i am it doesnt make sense...You're supposed to make some bucks right?
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 Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:57 pm |
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Afrika Korps
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but if you are incompetent as a manager, what happens with your business? what if a new restaurant opens across the street that offers better service? what if your employees treat badly the customers and negative feedback builds? if you serve the same plate every day, how will your restaurant be seen in the town? what if you serve the food in the same unwashed/badly washed plates? what if the menu is written badly and is full of grammar/spelling mistakes...
what if all the above combined...
either you improve, either you die - as business.
As a personal note: I still play AAM because we have here a great community (1st),you can modify the stock pieces, making them more appealing (2nd) and I have several scenarios in mind that I can play (3rd).
If I were stuck with AAM basic minis and a bunch of alfa-baker-charlie maps, long time ago I would have switch to other ww2 games, not naming them. AAM is fun if you take it for a ride, but when you see that no new stuff (I would have said "shit") comes up, no maps, no coherent rules, bendy barrels and ghostly cards... well then you might as well invest in other minis. Lots of gamers (note that I said "gamers", not "people") done that already. Look at the minis of Westenschlathi (or whatever is his name), see that Sindor switched, some of my friends play with FOW pieces the AAM games... See how disturbing wrong the stats om some cards are (for example the JagdPanzer IV 70, etc - talking about stats not SA's).
I really hope WotCosts will revise their attitude, small improvements will be made, lots of people will come, new people and the game will live, I really hope. But they MUST improve, or else... its a matter of time.
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| Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:13 pm |
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"My dear general, the war can now only be won by the politicians." Von Rundstedt to Kurt Meyer.
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| Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:22 pm |
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AHF Bronze-Rated Trader
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| I was just over there on the trade thread which seems to be hidden and there has not been a post there for 4 days...after a new set the trade threads are usually rockin' |
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| Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:41 pm |
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Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way -- G.S. Patton
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| Lt_Vleclopity wrote: | | I was just over there on the trade thread which seems to be hidden and there has not been a post there for 4 days...after a new set the trade threads are usually rockin' |
Crickets are all I hear over there.....I am not even going to bother updating my trade thread anymore. I think I will just post a link back to this one...much easier. 
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Aaron
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| Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:42 pm |
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| RedBaron wrote: | but if you are incompetent as a manager, what happens with your business? what if a new restaurant opens across the street that offers better service? what if your employees treat badly the customers and negative feedback builds? if you serve the same plate every day, how will your restaurant be seen in the town? what if you serve the food in the same unwashed/badly washed plates? what if the menu is written badly and is full of grammar/spelling mistakes...
what if all the above combined...
either you improve, either you die - as business.
As a personal note: I still play AAM because we have here a great community (1st),you can modify the stock pieces, making them more appealing (2nd) and I have several scenarios in mind that I can play (3rd).
If I were stuck with AAM basic minis and a bunch of alfa-baker-charlie maps, long time ago I would have switch to other ww2 games, not naming them. AAM is fun if you take it for a ride, but when you see that no new stuff (I would have said "shit") comes up, no maps, no coherent rules, bendy barrels and ghostly cards... well then you might as well invest in other minis. Lots of gamers (note that I said "gamers", not "people") done that already. Look at the minis of Westenschlathi (or whatever is his name), see that Sindor switched, some of my friends play with FOW pieces the AAM games... See how disturbing wrong the stats om some cards are (for example the JagdPanzer IV 70, etc - talking about stats not SA's).
I really hope WotCosts will revise their attitude, small improvements will be made, lots of people will come, new people and the game will live, I really hope. But they MUST improve, or else... its a matter of time. |
I think there's a different explanation, that I've seen offered on the boards, that still fits the Baron's metaphor.
What if AAM is a single menu item and not the whole restaurant - let's call the menu item Apple Cobbler in homage to K-rations. You introduce Apple Cobbler and for a while it does well, but it never comes close to the sales volume of other menu items, such as Magic the..., errr, I mean Spaghetti. Plus, the raw materials for spaghetti are much cheaper to produce, less specialized, involve big (not specialized) suppliers and have less waste. So, maybe you keep it on the menu, but rather than focus your attention on Apple Cobbler, you put most of your effort into spaghetti.
I don't know if it's true, but it has been suggested previously on the boards that AAM is WoTC's "Apple Cobbler"compared to their "Spaghetti:" MTG and D&D
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| Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:37 pm |
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Afrika Korps
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interesting point, yes that is a possibility... maybe AAM sells enough to match the effort put in it...
we gamers want so much more though, but the fact remains, if they encounter any competition on this segment... well I said before what could happen.
regards
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| Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:47 pm |
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Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way -- G.S. Patton
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Well if we are generating metaphors/analogies I think it is plain and simple that A&A products in general do not fit WoTC model(interests). I think they would prefer to be all fantasy all the time, but the A&A/Avalon Hill line just sells to well to ditch it.
Now for the analogy:
It is like walking into a ladies boutique and finding a harware section. There is no other hardware store in town, so it sells well. The ladies working the counter do not know much about it except the one guy(Fred) that stocks it for them and only works on Saturday. They really would rather be selling dresses and such, but as long as it sells and Fred is willing to stock it they keep ringing up the sales.
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Aaron
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| Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:53 pm |
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"The Desert Fox"
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| RAEVSKI wrote: | hmmm. most of the Community is here now  |
i hope they dont try to buy us out. then they would just kill it like they did with the others.
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| Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:35 pm |
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| afilter wrote: | Well if we are generating metaphors/analogies I think it is plain and simple that A&A products in general do not fit WoTC model(interests). I think they would prefer to be all fantasy all the time, but the A&A/Avalon Hill line just sells to well to ditch it.
Now for the analogy:
It is like walking into a ladies boutique and finding a harware section. There is no other hardware store in town, so it sells well. The ladies working the counter do not know much about it except the one guy(Fred) that stocks it for them and only works on Saturday. They really would rather be selling dresses and such, but as long as it sells and Fred is willing to stock it they keep ringing up the sales. |
Ladies clothing store? I feel dirty and embarrassed all of a sudden...
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| Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:43 pm |
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Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way -- G.S. Patton
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| Bean965 wrote: |
Ladies clothing store? I feel dirty and embarrassed all of a sudden... |
Ladies boutique...fantasy gaming...seemed to fit. 
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Aaron
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| Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:53 pm |
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AHF Bronze-Rated Trader
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| nice analogy af LOL |
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| Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:29 am |
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Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way -- G.S. Patton
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BTW...no affense meant to all you girls out there that play fantasy games.
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Aaron
"Focus on your own character and your reputation will take care of itself" |
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| Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:31 am |
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Speaking of girls, have we run them all off the boards, or are there a few that tolerate us in spite of our antics?
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| Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:41 am |
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| general Hoth wrote: | I've been following this thread for a while now. I'm no Wizard business man, just a scenario designer who loves this game. And others.
A question to our community: Why kill a game
As the restaurant owner that i am it doesnt make sense...You're supposed to make some bucks right? |
I think it is simple really. They saw an opportunity, they milked it, made good profit, the people in charge got greedy, someone new took over the reins, everything went wrong. They committed to the line a couple years ahead of time and now are just getting ready to dump it when the old stock passes through the warehouse gates. Some attempts to salvage the game were probably done on a shoestring budget, so it failed.
If they were serious about continuing the game or fixing it then there would have been more back stock in the warehouse available for order. From what I have been told there is none. Red Flag number 1.
I could be wrong, and be getting the wrong info, but I suspect not as I have heard this from more then two sources.
The design of the game is also proof of the quick one off they went with, instead of paying for a decent effort to make the game complete from the beginning. By that I mean why were not the complete rules for artillery, air, naval invasion, added terrain, etc ready to go from the beginning? Simple. They never intended them to be. I think the intial two sets did so well that someone decided to expand on that success and did a really bad job of it.
The entire rules for all releases should have been done from the very beginning. Those rules should have been alpha tested or outlined at the very least. It doesnt seem that way given all the conflicts and screw ups. Seems the design team did not communicate with each other very well.
There was a former company playtester (well or someone who claimed they were -- they seemed to add too much inside knowledge in the post to be fake) that posted on the old AH board that they had quit the AAM team because the project planners refused to test the Contested Sky rules with past units, and only with units released in Contested Sky. That person was peeved at the lack of quality control and the attitude the testing team had towards its customers. Hence why the endless errata chasing went on. That post was removed less then two hours after it went up one weekend, and I just happened to catch it as did a few others.
The whole attempt to sneak in the V2 sales on people too goes to show they were aware it was a gamble and tried to hide it. If they had just asked the community on the boards in the first place I think they would have realized how stupid a idea that was. But someone somewhere -- in their ultimate arrogance -- decided that the customers were smucks that would just pony up like a lot of past CCG types do and buy the latest release. Didn't work.
So now starting with this set I hope they are smart enough to start all of the actual rules and special abilities from scratch. Make new rules, call it a new game, and restat all the old V2 units at the very least and sell off those old sets for half price or something. Add new maps and a tournament system that is actually supported with real prizes and not ten free panzersheck minis -- and you have a chance to bring the game back in its real glory.
Otherwise I think the only buyers will be FOW players and the die hards from on this board.
If they do otherwise I predict the game is dead because of lagging sales, and the further recession that we will hit next year when inflation starts to take hold along with increasing commoditiy prices, and no government stimulus to stem the hole this time around. Right now WOTC needs to either cut the price of the minis to a more reasonable 9 bucks per booster retail price, repackage things to sell themed armies, or forget it and be honest with their customers that this and the next set are the absolute last unless sales improve.
But I suspect the final insult will come in the form of WOTC telling customers after the warehouse is empty that too bad - so sad - we are done. Why they did all this and why they screwed the customers so badly can only be attributed to stupidity and arrogance at this point. So I don't see much hope of anything different. I would love if the company proved me wrong.
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| Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:25 pm |
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Afrika Korps
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| NorthernRommel wrote: | So now starting with this set I hope they are smart enough to start all of the actual rules and special abilities from scratch. Make new rules, call it a new game, and restat all the old V2 units at the very least and sell off those old sets for half price or something. Add new maps and a tournament system that is actually supported with real prizes and not ten free panzersheck minis -- and you have a chance to bring the game back in its real glory.
Otherwise I think the only buyers will be FOW players and the die hards from on this board.
If they do otherwise I predict the game is dead because of lagging sales, and the further recession that we will hit next year when inflation starts to take hold along with increasing commoditiy prices, and no government stimulus to stem the hole this time around. Right now WOTC needs to either cut the price of the minis to a more reasonable 9 bucks per booster retail price, repackage things to sell themed armies, or forget it and be honest with their customers that this and the next set are the absolute last unless sales improve.
But I suspect the final insult will come in the form of WOTC telling customers after the warehouse is empty that too bad - so sad - we are done. Why they did all this and why they screwed the customers so badly can only be attributed to stupidity and arrogance at this point. So I don't see much hope of anything different. I would love if the company proved me wrong.
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I agree... not that my opinion would be important, but you said it right... I do not add anything, just your last sentence and your first from the quote are really two important statements.
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| Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:41 pm |
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I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I can't help but laugh:
the most active dry/turf thread on the boards right now is this one, which started out as a commentary on how dead the WoTC AAM boards are and has ended up as WoTC critique identical to a dozen or so that I've read over the past two years...
Don't we have anything else AAM-related to talk about?
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| Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm |
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| Bean965 wrote: | I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I can't help but laugh:
the most active dry/turf thread on the boards right now is this one, which started out as a commentary on how dead the WoTC AAM boards are and has ended up as WoTC critique identical to a dozen or so that I've read over the past two years...
Don't we have anything else AAM-related to talk about? |
Apparently not. BTW, we don't flame over here. That's a "wet" thing. Uncouth hydrojerks.
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| Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:32 pm |
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| Sharpe wrote: | | Bean965 wrote: | I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I can't help but laugh:
the most active dry/turf thread on the boards right now is this one, which started out as a commentary on how dead the WoTC AAM boards are and has ended up as WoTC critique identical to a dozen or so that I've read over the past two years...
Don't we have anything else AAM-related to talk about? |
Apparently not. BTW, we don't flame over here. That's a "wet" thing. Uncouth hydrojerks. |
LOL
Of course, I've been thinking about getting into WAS - more action on their boards!
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| Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:41 am |
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| Bean965 wrote: | | Sharpe wrote: | | Bean965 wrote: | I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I can't help but laugh:
the most active dry/turf thread on the boards right now is this one, which started out as a commentary on how dead the WoTC AAM boards are and has ended up as WoTC critique identical to a dozen or so that I've read over the past two years...
Don't we have anything else AAM-related to talk about? |
Apparently not. BTW, we don't flame over here. That's a "wet" thing. Uncouth hydrojerks. |
LOL
Of course, I've been thinking about getting into WAS - more action on their boards! |
For now.
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| Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:55 am |
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