| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Afrika Korps
Posts: 1390
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
 |
|
As long as they keep making money with AAM and WAS, regardless of their official forum, the game will continue.
When the money stops flowing, then even with the forum, the game will die. I believe this is their principle.
Of course, having good support for a game could increase (I repeat could) your sales.
Another issue to think about: the EF set, with all the problems that came with it (no planes, bendy barrels, yet another Tiger I and so on) sold well I tend to believe. I have no real info but I followed the trend and it seemed to be doing ok. So, the money comes, they are satisfied, regardless of customer support.
If tomorrow a Competitor arrives with 15 mm plastic prepainted ww2 units, THEN they will have a problem.
_________________
Custom AAM Maps & Counters here
 |
|
 Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:24 pm |
|
|
AHF Silver-Rated Trader
Posts: 705
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
| RedBaron wrote: |
If tomorrow a Competitor arrives with 15 mm plastic prepainted ww2 units, THEN they will have a problem. |
I'm trying, I'm trying.
But I may need to adopt some chinese children to help out with the labor.
BTW, Baron, have you gotten your latest package yet? Cant wait to hear how you like these ones.
_________________
painting services available for any kind of minis.
If forum e-mail does not work, please manually e-mail me at timdrocks@mchsi.com |
|
| Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:10 pm |
|
|
Afrika Korps
Posts: 1390
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
salt on my wounds...
It may have arrived, I am not in town yet... I will let you know as soon as I return in my home town (that will be next week).
I am sure that you with 2-3 other persons could make a better version of this game (minis, rules, maps). But you need a little budget to get it going. 
_________________
Custom AAM Maps & Counters here
|
|
| Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:24 pm |
|
|
AHF Silver-Rated Trader
Posts: 705
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
| RedBaron wrote: | | But you need a little budget to get it going. |
I'm working on that too, but the lottery people are not cooperating.
_________________
painting services available for any kind of minis.
If forum e-mail does not work, please manually e-mail me at timdrocks@mchsi.com |
|
| Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:29 pm |
|
|
Posts: 147
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
You know over the past month or so I have run into a number of the old AAM players around the city here and many still have their V1 collections gathering dust in their basements.
If WOTC were to release a final box set for V1 to compliment the V2 set I think they might actually make money off it enough, and maybe bring some of the old players back out of the wood work and back to the game tournaments. If they had just did a final V1 release before going on to V2, and then made V2 all new rules with better stats and better rules proofs and maps then it would have been WAYYYYY better a decision.
I think the miniatures themselves would have lived on and held some value if the V1 thing had been finished in the way it was deserved. But I suppose WOTC had other stupid grandiose profit ideals. |
|
| Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:14 am |
|
|
Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way -- G.S. Patton
Posts: 2823
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
The only thing happening on the other site is crickets chirping. Even after the gleemax conversion there were still several posts a day in each catagory. Currently there a froums that have not had a single post in days. 
_________________
Aaron
"Focus on your own character and your reputation will take care of itself" |
|
| Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:00 pm |
|
|
AHF Gold-Rated Trader
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
| NorthernRommel wrote: | If WOTC were to release a final box set for V1 to compliment the V2 set I think they might actually make money off it enough, and maybe bring some of the old players back out of the wood work and back to the game tournaments. If they had just did a final V1 release before going on to V2, and then made V2 all new rules with better stats and better rules proofs and maps then it would have been WAYYYYY better a decision.
I think the miniatures themselves would have lived on and held some value if the V1 thing had been finished in the way it was deserved. But I suppose WOTC had other stupid grandiose profit ideals. |
word.
Minis was close to being acceptable and 30 more vehicles would have wrapped it up. The planes play fine next to Minis. In the world of Maxis the planes look exceptionaly silly and the maps do not allow room to have strategic movement with vehicles. They play nicely for me as infantry maps with increased stacking though.
I own about 400 vehicle Minis and about 6 vehicle Maxis. So I suppose I'm one that hung around but I haven't bought a booster since Reserves.
_________________
formerly Polish_Horsy on A&A minis website
my trade list |
|
| Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:21 pm |
|
|
AHF Gold-Rated Trader
Posts: 1045
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
| NorthernRommel wrote: | You know over the past month or so I have run into a number of the old AAM players around the city here and many still have their V1 collections gathering dust in their basements.
If WOTC were to release a final box set for V1 to compliment the V2 set I think they might actually make money off it enough, and maybe bring some of the old players back out of the wood work and back to the game tournaments. If they had just did a final V1 release before going on to V2, and then made V2 all new rules with better stats and better rules proofs and maps then it would have been WAYYYYY better a decision.
I think the miniatures themselves would have lived on and held some value if the V1 thing had been finished in the way it was deserved. But I suppose WOTC had other stupid grandiose profit ideals. |
Not sure if this would've worked. There was post in regards to this:
http://aaminis.myfastforum.org/about8892.html
_________________
James 1:17
Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. |
|
| Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:28 pm |
|
|
Posts: 147
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
Thanks for the links. I was not aware of this other discussion or the article linked to it.
Mage Knight 1.0 was a game that could have been salvaged. The problem was that Whizkids only sanctioned the Version 2 miniatures very quickly on. They wanted 1.0 version to die. To say what they did was beyond stupid is a understatement.
I tried to fix things locally by making variant rules that would keep MK 1.0 tournaments alive, but the WhizKids company apparently took steps to stop people running MK 1.0 tournaments in local stores because they wanted to squash the MK 1.0 line period, and sell more Dungeon sets. The local venues had no choice but to stop running even open older versions of the game, and not allow MK 1.0 stuff even to be used with the Dungeons expansion set -- which was truly not that bad.
There were gamers willing to keep the old game alive. When the venues however pulled a Judas -- that was it. The efforts were dead.
The same thing happened with AAM V1 in my opinion.
As many know I did some pretty extensive rules extensions to the game to make it more realistic and more historic. But when our favorite local store started running those historical tournaments, some Jackhole complained and the DCI police threated the stores license to sell Wizzies junk. The local two stores that ran the game had no choice but to do what the DCI police wanted So yet again it was the company that killed the effort of the players.
There was no need of it, and not to rehash a dead horse (sorry Polish Horsey) but this was as much the gamers fault as the company. People should have refused to buy ANY of the V2 minis that came out. It would have been that which would have forced Weasels of the Coast to listen.
But it didnt happen.
With AAM 2.0 the writing was on the wall. I don't understand why more people did not realize it.
When the change happened with AAM V2 it was me that posted the probablility of the change on the old WOTC boards. I have been in the game design and playing business long enough to read between the lines and knew exactly what they were intending to do. The signs were obvious. I think one of the reasons I ticked off a lot of the WOTC types was that I openly challenged them on the old boards to fess up -- and surprisingly they did. But my actions in forcing the company to spill the beans months before the V2 release did more damage then I had intended to cause. When it turned out I was right some regulars on that board emailed me and openly apologized for the attacks.
A LOT of people who had formerly called me a nutcase for even suggesting that WOTC would do something so stupid, suddenly did a 180 and openly quit the game. To this day I feel bad about being the catalyst for that.
But you know the truth is that the gamers do not need the company if the game dies. The longevity of this forum that Neural Dream set up is proof of that.
IF AAM dies as a product then good riddance in some respects. The parent company will shoot itself in the foot yet again and show what a bunch of idiots they are.
But the gaming public will still have many of the miniatures sitting in tubs as the other poster spoke of Mage Knight. IF we collectively wanted to the game to live on we could do it. The rules could be rewritten properly to live with the existing miniatures. I know my RMB rules were a big hit for WW2 in general (I am now adapting it for use with both 1/72 scale as it was originally intended -- and for use with AAM).
The strength is in the pieces. Just as with Mageknight, AAM could certainly be saved by the people who want to play it.
Now if WOTC were SMART -- just for a moment -- they would swallow some of the profit loss and put out that final set for AAM V1 and personally I think it would revive enough of the game (and their reputation) to start right from scratch with the new Early War set and as Mike Holmes says -- "just do it right."
Maybe if enough gamers raised their voices to email WOTC about this then it could convince the right open mind at that company that it would work.
Now that I would applaud. For Wizards to put all those profits and prove they can actually give a dam about their audience.
Otherwise I would suggest that people boycott "Early War" completely so that there is not one copy of the game purchased. It may seem extreme but it is only through extreme unity and effort by the people who play the game and want to preserve it that the games companies will be forced to listen.
If the game falls then enough of us with talent here could resurrect it so that the miniatures live on.
Now that I would be impressed to see happen. |
|
| Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:30 am |
|
|
"Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak, Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." - Churchill
Posts: 1961
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
That wouldn't work. Too many people have already switched to V2.
_________________
"Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak, Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." - Churchill
+45 on GTL
 |
|
| Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:07 am |
|
|
Afrika Korps
Posts: 1390
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
I would add to Rommel's post that there are a lot of people - as myself - that started playing with 3945 set, the first v2 set.
A total boycott of the Early War is impossible to achieve since even if 100 regular users from this forum do not buy 1 piece of the new set, that will not matter in the long run. The other thousands of customers will.
I can see how the Wizards of the Costs "hit" the former AAM community by changing the scale. It's like a punch in the face for the "old" players.
I am not a fan of the MAO bunch, but as I said many times they have no real opponents on the market. NO other 15mm plastic prepainted ww2 minis out there.
A last thing: if now I should choose between the v2 (1:100) and the v1 (1:120), I would go for the 15 mm (1:100) because they seem large enough and small enough in the same time.
regards,
----
@Westen...thi: did I use the correct scales? Cause if I mixed them up again once more
_________________
Custom AAM Maps & Counters here
|
|
| Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:57 am |
|
|
AHF Gold-Rated Trader
Posts: 1045
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
NorthernRommel,
That's quite a post. Thanks for the reply. I'm not too familiar with the past history of AAM. As a player that got into the game sometime after the 1939-1945 set (Missing the firestorm about the version change). So, I can't really make a comment about it. I would be interested in seeing some of your rule updates/suggestions if possible.
_________________
James 1:17
Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. |
|
| Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:44 pm |
|
|
Posts: 147
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
| RedBaron wrote: | I can see how the Wizards of the Costs "hit" the former AAM community by changing the scale. It's like a punch in the face for the "old" players.
|
That punch in the face as you put it is why I think the game is doomed sooner then later. I know a lot of the WW2 genre players in my area that were attracted to the initial game would never invest in V2 because they fully expect the line of miniatures would end up half finished again after a few more set releases. They would see no reason to invest a few thousand only to end up back in the same boat. So out of the twenty or so players I know, maybe three would bother with the V2. But then again that is why no one sells AAM around here anymore, and also why none of the stores will run it, host it, or sell it. This is a military city with a lot of historical oriented folks about. Most of them speak badly of the game if you even mention it.
From what I understand getting old copies of the 39-45 and Desert War sets from the manufacturer now is hopeless as one local vendor was told by a distributer that the warehouse was empty. I assume that means that WOTC has sold out of all its first production runs. But even if they could get it the price is outlandish in these parts. Maybe you guys know some suppliers of V2 early sets that are more affordable for a old salt like me.
The only reason I would bother at this point is to get enough base miniatures together to mold my own. As I mentioned in a earlier post the process is not complicated, but I dont recommend it unless you want large armies or can spread out the costs by sharing the load with friends who also play. Way cheaper in the long run, and I don't mind the painting effort. Not for everyone.
At this point I have almost as many 1/72 and HO scale stuff to rival my AAM V1 collection, but for someone starting out in that area -- be advised it takes years if not decades to gather most of the different models required to make a proper collection.
Cheers. |
|
| Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:38 pm |
|
|
"My dear general, the war can now only be won by the politicians." Von Rundstedt to Kurt Meyer.
Posts: 1488
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
Nice post. 
I believe AAM will endure. Have a look at Squad Leader (1978), it died down a few years just to be bought by MMP.
And what a come back! Plus it sells again.
_________________
Scenarios?:
http://aaminis.myfastforum.org/forum3.php. |
|
| Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:48 pm |
|
|
AHF Silver-Rated Trader
Posts: 705
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
THANK YOU WIZZIES FOR SCREWING IT ALL UP - I mean it!
I was an old mage knighter. When the game collpased (I saw that is was doomed as soon as mage knight 2.0 came out). I was all into makge knights, and a guy could make a decent living reselling them on ebay. That was all I did. Buy mage knight cases, open them, resell them. Was great fun. Then I got a couple requests to paint figures. About the time that started to "click", they kill edit. I was mad, wondering if I had to start flipping burgers to pay the bills. Then AAM got me, and now I am hooked.
1) They killed MK = I got into AAM.
2) They made crappily painted tanks = I got into painting AAM.
3) They made new AAM = I got to use minis that hold crew better, and a few V1 customers had to order from me all over again.
---
Wizzies = lose/lose
Moi = win/win
---
Mage Knights = once dead, stays dead.
AAM = once dead, minis survive to fight on with other game rule sets.
The tanks will always be good for someone. Just look at me. I have not so much as even read the AAM rules. Not 1 single sentence from the rule book. I have my own rules, and without even reading AAM's rules, I know mine are better.
---
Oh yeah, one more thing = the other site make sme mad when I can not bookmark the modeling forum. I have to navigate all the way through thier stuff each time I go there.
_________________
painting services available for any kind of minis.
If forum e-mail does not work, please manually e-mail me at timdrocks@mchsi.com |
|
| Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:54 pm |
|
|
A quiet man.
Posts: 152
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
If the geniuses at WOTC drop A&A, which will happen sooner or later (probably sooner), I have enough stuff to enjoy the game without any other purchases. I could even use other rules if I wanted more realism.
I have the pieces. I'm good to go.
Besides, as Sharpe has done, if you want new stuff, you just make up new cards and proxy the pieces. Let's face it, WOTC has not been that accurate in identifying the units.
I used to look forward to new releases, but now...well, it honestly seems as though WOTC wants to kill the game.
Bicycle troops? Are you kidding? How often were THEY used?
An Australian Carro Armato? What, does it have a special kangaroo painted on the side (sure to be a rare)? The poor Aussies only used those because there was nothing better, and it was only for a short time.
I'll take a Russian plane and the new Japanese Oscar if I can get one.
Other than that, forget it.
Any other rares I get from the Early War set will be on the trade thread.
Watch this space... |
|
| Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:33 am |
|
|
AHF Silver-Rated Trader
Posts: 705
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
From now on, I only need 1 of each unit. Then I copy and resin cast them. I just made a huge fleet of T-26s. I think I spent about $1 worth of resin on them, and a lil time.
_________________
painting services available for any kind of minis.
If forum e-mail does not work, please manually e-mail me at timdrocks@mchsi.com |
|
| Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:40 am |
|
|
"Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak, Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." - Churchill
Posts: 1961
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
Panzer...what is your job may i ask? You said you made a living selling Mage Knight...do you do that with AAM?
_________________
"Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak, Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." - Churchill
+45 on GTL
|
|
| Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:07 am |
|
|
AHF Gold-Rated Trader
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
| acs0424 wrote: | | That wouldn't work. Too many people have already switched to V2. |
too many? what, like 500 people? pfft. their sales are much lower now then they were 2 years ago.
when you say "too many" I assume you are refering to people using this site. In the big scheme there are not that many people that switched. I'm like 1,000's of people who simply stopped buying. There are certainly people that are new to the game in the past 1-1/2 years that are buying the Maxis but they didn't "switch".
_________________
formerly Polish_Horsy on A&A minis website
my trade list |
|
| Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:49 pm |
|
|
AHF Silver-Rated Trader
Posts: 705
|
|
|
Post subject:
|
|
|
| acs0424 wrote: | | Panzer...what is your job may i ask? You said you made a living selling Mage Knight...do you do that with AAM? |
About 5 years ago, I sold miniatures (mage knights & D&D) on ebay for a living.
As D&D slipped downhill (in resellability that is) and Mage knights petered out, thats when AAM kicked in. So about 4 years ago, I was half & half (selling on ebay & painting).
Now I paint, mod, and make resin cast vehicles and terrain for a living.
_________________
painting services available for any kind of minis.
If forum e-mail does not work, please manually e-mail me at timdrocks@mchsi.com |
|
| Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:03 pm |
|
|
|
