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Straight-Shooter
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| Diamondback wrote: | | Jameson wrote: | I wonder if the tails of the planes were painted by division as well?  |
In the Prewar Standard, tailgroups were painted a different color for each carrier, with the wing and fuselage stripes identifying the different flights in each squadron. (In threes, they hadn't discovered the superiority of the two-ship and the Thach Weave yet, remember?)
By mid-'41, blue-gray over white was the standard. And even CinCPAC didn't dare mess with BuAer in Washington... |
I was talking about the scout planes on each battleship 
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 Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:48 am |
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Caesar Americanus II Munchkin Wrangler
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They woulda been BuAer-spec as well, and even an idiot like Admiral Kimmel woulda known better than to get into that kinda bureaucratic knife-fight...
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| Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:56 am |
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AHF Bronze-Rated Trader
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Air Divisions had different colors than the Battleship Divisions. From what I have learned the rear most turret was painted in the color of the Air Division on board that particular Battleship.
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| Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:52 am |
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| Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:10 am |
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AHF Bronze-Rated Trader
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Don at the Naval Museum at Annapilos answered my email with the following quote & corrections to the list I sent him ....
"After the outbreak of the war they stopped painting the turret tops on the battleships.
Batdiv 3 Lt. Blue - New Mexico, Idaho, Mississippi
Batdiv 5 Yellow - New York, Texas"
So that definitely tells us the other two questionable BatDiv colors and the practice was not continued after the wars start.
Corrected List
Division 1 (red) - Arizona, Nevada & Oklahoma
Division 2 (white) - Pennsylvania, Tennessee & California
Division 3 (light blue) - New Mexico, Mississippi & Idaho
Division 4 (black)- Colorado, Maryland & West Virginia
Division 5 (yellow) - Training Division - New York, Texas & Arkansas
Division 6 - Washington & North Carolina
Division 7 - Iowa & New Jersey
Division 8 - Indiana & Massachusetts
Division 9 - South Dakota & Alabama
Division 10 - Wisconsin & Missouri
Nothing like solving a nice little mystery!
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| Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:06 pm |
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| Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:06 pm |
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Forum Administrator
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Thanks. I may have to go back and repaint my Pennsylvania now.
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| Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:36 pm |
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AHF Bronze-Rated Trader
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Just remember ..... it was only the front two turrets that denoted the Battleship Division. The aft most turret was painted the color of the Aircraft Division that was assigned to the ship. I have not found much of anything concerning that except what is in this article ....
http://archives.starbulletin.com/2006/12/07/news/story04.html
..... and the Arizona just happened to have red there too. Looks like more research is needed!
EDIT >>>>
I found a place where one of the researchers of the USS Arizona paint job posted some information, and he happened to have the Aircraft Division colors!
Aircraft Division 1 (red) - Arizona, Pennsylvania, Idaho, Texas & West Virginia.
Aircraft Division 2 (white) - Nevada, California, Mississippi, Colorado & New York.
Aircraft Division 3 (true blue) - Oklahoma, Tennessee, New Mexico, Maryland & Arkansas.
AND another fellow said he found the Cruiser Division colors, although he did not give a source.
CRUDIV 2 - Yellow (Double stripe)
CRUDIV 3 - Red (double stripe)
CRUDIV 4 - Blue (single stripe)
CRUDIV 5 - Yellow (single stripe)
CRUDIV 6 - Black (single stripe)
CRUDIV 7 - Green (single stripe)
CRUDIV 8 - Black (double stripe)
CRUDIV 9 - Green (double stripe)
Light Cruisers
USS Detroit & Raleigh -- Blue (double stripe)
USS Richmond -- Red (double stripe)
USS Augusta and Omaha -- Red (single stripe)
Someone also listed a website that has the paints of the various navy colors that you can order to paint your models ...
http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/...l_Colours_19.html&CatalogBody
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| Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:00 am |
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| So to simplify this all, if I wanted to turn my extra USS Arizona into a Pearl Harbor attack spec USS Pennsylvania, I would just need to paint the front two turret tops white, and leave the #4 turret top red... Correct? |
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| Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:07 pm |
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No ......
The front two turrets (#1 & 2) denote the Battleship Division, which for Arizona is Insignia Red.
The rear most turret (#4) is painted to match the Aircraft Division, which for Arizona also happens to be Insignia Red.
Now if you are painting Nevada then Turrets #1 & 2 would be painted Insignia Red and Turret #4 would be painted White.
Also ... here is the actual order that was issued detailing the colors to be painted in 1938 ...
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/S19-7/1939_24L-38.html
And here was the final order from March 1941 for the color as they were on December 7th ...
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/S19-7/USL-41.html
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| Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:21 am |
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| Highball wrote: | No ......
The front two turrets (#1 & 2) denote the Battleship Division, which for Arizona is Insignia Red.
The rear most turret (#4) is painted to match the Aircraft Division, which for Arizona also happens to be Insignia Red.
Now if you are painting Nevada then Turrets #1 & 2 would be painted Insignia Red and Turret #4 would be painted White. |
I said USS Pennsylvania, which I'm pretty sure was in BatDiv 2. USS Nevada, while a still a period "standard BB" is from a different class. |
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| Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:47 pm |
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| Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:49 pm |
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Wow, Delta Echo! That resource is like gold! Thank you!!!
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| Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:11 pm |
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| Thanks, but credit Highball, he did the legwork of finding the resource |
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| Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:07 am |
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| Delta Echo wrote: | | Highball wrote: | No ......
The front two turrets (#1 & 2) denote the Battleship Division, which for Arizona is Insignia Red.
The rear most turret (#4) is painted to match the Aircraft Division, which for Arizona also happens to be Insignia Red.
Now if you are painting Nevada then Turrets #1 & 2 would be painted Insignia Red and Turret #4 would be painted White. |
I said USS Pennsylvania, which I'm pretty sure was in BatDiv 2. USS Nevada, while a still a period "standard BB" is from a different class. |
Yes .... what you said! I cannot read either! hehehe
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| Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:34 am |
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| Delta Echo wrote: | | USS Nevada, while a still a period "standard BB" is from a different class. |
Yes, Nevada is a differnet class, but very close to Arizona. A very simple MOD IMO. 2nd and 3rd Turrent jst need to be converted from a triple mount to a twin mount. just have not got to it yet.
If I were WoTC and wanted to do anpther sculpt cheap I would just sculpt a new turret and put it on Arizona for USS Nevada.
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| Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:25 pm |
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Caesar Americanus II Munchkin Wrangler
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If I'd been the tooling-designer, I woulda made the prewar BB sculpts modular, just swapping different bow and superstructure pieces on the same basic "main hull", possibly also tooling a different main-deck module for turrets vs. casemates.
A lot of these ships have separate superstructure pieces anyway that are glued on, so it'd be simple to redesign those pieces for the "standards"... oh wait, New Mexico introduced the clipper-bow Tennessee has.
Why oh why oh why didn't they consult a trained engineer?
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| Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:56 am |
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Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way -- G.S. Patton
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Thanks for the great information guys!
Here is my rendition of Nevada and Pennsylvania:
http://aaminis.myfastforum.org/about9278.html
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| Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:36 am |
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Every once in awhile you stumble on to something and your like "WHAT?"
I was looking at this model of the Arizona on EBay ...
http://cgi.ebay.com/BUILT-BATTLES...FICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D10%26ps%3D63
So I thought I would be a nice person and share the research we had done so his models would be historically accurate and maybe fetch a better price. Here is what this individual wrote back ....
Dear highball32,
Thanks...But my Dad, who was there says they were in process of , but not done, or even started on the USS Arizona. Problem is misinformation that seeps in as time passes., as do those who were there, For example, watch the History Channel.. It is loaded with it, sadly now this will be entered as true. I`ll hold with my Dad. He was there from late 1939, 1941
)
- heritagemodels4u
Now that is interesting and I think someone needs to talk to this guys Dad and get the skinny on what he has to say about this.
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| Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:05 am |
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Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way -- G.S. Patton
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| Highball wrote: | Every once in awhile you stumble on to something and your like "WHAT?"
I was looking at this model of the Arizona on EBay ...
http://cgi.ebay.com/BUILT-BATTLES...FICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D10%26ps%3D63
So I thought I would be a nice person and share the research we had done so his models would be historically accurate and maybe fetch a better price. Here is what this individual wrote back ....
Dear highball32,
Thanks...But my Dad, who was there says they were in process of , but not done, or even started on the USS Arizona. Problem is misinformation that seeps in as time passes., as do those who were there, For example, watch the History Channel.. It is loaded with it, sadly now this will be entered as true. I`ll hold with my Dad. He was there from late 1939, 1941
)
- heritagemodels4u
Now that is interesting and I think someone needs to talk to this guys Dad and get the skinny on what he has to say about this. |
Hmmm...so he is saying the NPS blue is not accurate? Interesting.
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| Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:20 am |
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