jfkziegler's Troop Landing Rules

Greyh Seer · **Greyh Seer**

I am very eager to hear about playtesting. I would love it if we could get a solid ruleset here.

I've also started a thread on the AH/gleemax forums about what other type of rulesets could be in the new starter and I suggested a troop lading one...mostly because of how promising this ruleset is...

Though RB might want something simpler...hmm...Still, I really want to see some reports on this rulest!
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-Greyh

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Otto von Starkburg · **Otto von Starkburg**

I too. I am looking for someone who want to testplay these rules in the online game forum.

My personal view: The troop landing rules are, in conjuction with the convoy attack, surface fleet battle and harbour attack rules, the most important rules and make the game playable (and allow playing a campagin without using AAM).
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Map
Midway

Strategic Map
North Atlantic and Mediteran Sea, Pacific and Eastern Indic

chesty · **chesty**

Before spilling all the details of this test run, I'd like to say that these rules add a lot of fun to the game. It's nice to have a purpose, for one thing. For another, you have to consider your deployment and strategy very carefully. Once we get the details worked out, I think everyone who tries them will be hooked. I know that "the Devil's in the details", but I'm sure we can work it out. These rules are too cool not to use. Cool

I made a battle map with Paint and set it as my background for reference. The Americans on the left, the Germans on the right, and islands where the objectives normally go. The top and bottom islands had storage tanks and wharehouses to represent resource objectives. The center island had an optimistic airstrip as the objective.

Before the game, we agreed on a 150 point limit for the fleets. We didn't say we had to bring any transports. We agreed that victory points would equal 50 points per objective held by troops, 25 points per objective held by sea control, and points equal to the value of units destroyed, to be determined at the end of each turn. First player with 150 points at the end of any turn wins the game.

We agreed to use the Special rules for troops regenerating damage (re-grouping?) between turns and for Transports re-deploying when they die or deliver. We argued about whether Transports should get to carry three Troop counters, but decided against it for this test.

Both sides brought a Battleship and a Carrier, but the Germans also brought a Submarine (of course). The Americans brought two Transports, but the Germans brought only one. Deployed like so...

Intrepid Question

Graf Zeppelin
_ Wildcat _ Bf-109
_ Avenger _ Bf-109
_ Avenger Hans Ludemann
_ Avenger
Transport Question

U-66
Cleveland

California Tirpitz
Transport Question

Transport
John C. Butler Scharnhorst

On the first turn, the German Battleship Group moved two sectors toward the bottom island while their Carrier Group moved two sectors toward the center island. The U-66 started to circle the center island. The California failed her Slow roll, and her Battleship Group moved one sector toward the bottom island. The Intrepid group moved two sectors toward the center island. The Germans split their Fighters between their two surface groups. The Americans sent all their air against the Tirpitz, and the single Avenger that made it through got two hits on the Tirpitz for two points of damage.

On the second turn, the John C. Butler failed her Slow roll, and the California group moved another sector toward the bottom island. The Intrepid group moved two sectors to come adjacent to the center island. The Graf Zeppelin group moved two sectors to end up adjacent to the center island, opposite the Intrepid group. The Tirpitz group moved two sectors to reach the bottom island, and the U-66 moved another sector around the center island to get next to the Intrepid group. When the American wanted to land only one Troop counter on the center island, we agreed to allow it. The German Transport landed both Troop counters on the bottom island. The Americans sent all their air against the U-66, and the Germans sent all two of their Fighters to defend it. An Avenger died, but the U-66 took a point of damage. When the American wanted to make normal Gunnery attacks against the troops on the bottom island, we agreed to allow it. We also agreed that damage should spread before stacking. The California hit one Troop counter and the Cleveland hit the other. The Scharnhorst got a hit on the Cleveland and a hit on the American troops on the center island. The Tirpitz hit the troops again and wiped them out. The U-66 put a torpedo into the Cleveland and sank her. The German Transport was re-deployed and damage markers were removed from the Troop counters on the bottom island.

On the third turn, the Intrepid Group moved two sectors to reach the top island. The California group moved two sectors to finally get next to the bottom island. The Tirpitz group moved two sectors to pass between the center and bottom islands. The Graf Zeppelin group moved two sectors around the center island, toward the top island. The U-66 moved one sector around the center island, toward the top island. The re-deployed German Transport moved two sectors toward the top island. The Transport with the Intrepid landed its last Troop counter on the top island and the Transport with the California landed both Troop counters on the bottom island. The Germans split their Fighters between their Transport and the U-66. The Americans committed all their air against the U-66, killing the Fighter and sinking the U-66 with hits from both Bombers. The Intrepid hit the Graf Zeppelin and the California hit the Tirpitz for a point of damage apiece, but the rest of the American Gunnery attacks were Maggie's Drawers. The Hans Ludemann put a fish into the Intrepid for a point of damage, but she and the Graf Zeppelin scored no hits with their Gunnery attacks. The Tirpitz hit the California for a point of damage, sank the John C. Butler with a Vital hit, and hit the American troops on the bottom island. The Scharnhorst missed the California, but got two hits on the American Troop counters on the bottom island, killing one and damaging the other. We agreed that Troop versus Troop combat should be at the end of the Surface Attack phase, and that undamaged Troop counters should throw two attack dice instead of one. The American troops scored a hit, but hits from both the German units killed them. Since the U-66 had been sunk, there was no Sub phase, and the damage marker was removed from the German Troop counter on the bottom island. At the end of the turn, the Americans held an objective for 50 points and had destroyed 19 points of enemy units, for a total of 69 points. The Germans held an objective for 50 points and had destroyed 36 points of enemy units, for a total of 86 points.

Although neither side had enough points to win, the handwriting was on the wall. A glance at the map showed the Germans on the American side of the map, with both German Battle Groups closing on the Intrepid group. Although it was an interesting battle, there seems to be no need to go on beyond the third turn. The decisions that shaped the game had already been made, by then. (The Americans lost.)

Comments?

UNC_Samurai · **UNC_Samurai**

jfkziegler, I've got a preliminary rules sheet typed up for our playtesting, along with unit counters formatted for card sleeves. PM me your email address and I'll send them to you.

jfkziegler · **jfkziegler**

Thanks for the playtest, chesty! Here are some of my thoughts:

1) I think your playtest showed why I have been so opposed throughout this process to allowing ships to take islands. Because of that option, there were only three transports between the two fleets you ran. If that option did not exist, I have to believe that more transports would have been placed into both fleets.

2) In a 150 point game, the objectives would normally be worth 75 points, and the victory total would be 225. I think that reducing both reduced the value of the objectives, and also encouraged ship combat over trying to take islands.

3) Interesting decision to allow troops to regenerate damage. I suspect that might end up being a really good rule, because it makes bookkeeping easier, and makes the troop counters a little more survivable.

4) I'm glad you didn't allow transports to carry three troop counters, for two reasons. One, doing so would reduce the value of the LSI ships. Two, it would encourage people to not bring as many transports.

5) I think the transports re-deploying after they die rule is good and I am glad you used it.

6) Were you rolling slow rolls for the transports? I don't recall seeing any of the transports missing their slow roll.

7) Allowing transports to split their landings seems like a decent rule. I can definitely add that into the rules system somewhere.

8) Why wouldn't the Americans have been able to make normal gunnery attacks against the troops on the bottom island?

9) I'm not crazy about the rule saying that you should spread damage before stacking it. This is mostly because I don't like forcing people to choose certain targets. However, I can see its value, as it does make troop counters more survivable.

10) Putting troop attack at the end of the surface combat phase seems like a decent idea, but I don't like undamaged troops throwing two dice. It makes troops too easy to kill.

11) The fact that the game was over by the third turn supports my point from above that allowing for sea control turns it into a standard War at Sea game instead of an amphibious invasion.

Overall, I'm glad you playtested it, and as I said in my comments, there are definitely some lessons that can be taken from your experience. I really wish you had stuck to the actual rules, though, and not included sea control, because that fundamentally changed the way the game played out. I'm still anxious to see how future playtest results come in.
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Greyh Seer · **Greyh Seer**

Greyh Seer · **Greyh Seer**

Yeah, turn 3 seems a little fast for a game. Sounded like fun though! Obviously some more playtests are in order. I am very excited for these rules to be fully ironed out!
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-Greyh

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chesty · **chesty**

chesty · **chesty**

chesty · **chesty**

UNC_Samurai · **UNC_Samurai**

Some thoughts on our match we played last night, an alpha playtest of an invasion of Malta. There are three coastal objectives which British infantry and shore batteries (see Custom Card Section) are defending.

We allowed the Italians 8 transports which did not count for or against their point total or victory total. This was because the British were merely defending the island. We built a large, multi-sector island for Malta. As a result we gave the infantry Speed 1, and allowed defending infantry to relocate as soon as attacking troops landed. Another problem we came across was the tallying of victory points - right now, we're working on the assumption that you don't check for victory totals until the first landing invasion.

All of the aforementioned problems are resulting from trying to fit the rules to scenarios. There is another problem, however. The rules for troop movement and combat need to be refined. Specifically, the Hard to Kill SA. Upon testing the rules, I found neither jfkziegler's original wording nor my attempt at rewording really worked:

Original SA:
Hard to Kill: If this unit has more than one hull point remaining, it cannot be destroyed by a single attack roll no matter how many successes are rolled.

Revised SA:
Hard to Kill: If this unit has more than one hull point remaining, any attack that would destroy it instead reduces it to one hull point.

Allocating damage from bombardment and then troop combat is a little odd, because some interpretations of the SA mean that damage in one Surface Gunnery phase would not stack, meaning you couldn't eliminate a Troop Counter in a single turn. We thought about making Land Combat a separate phase, maybe after the Submarine Phase.

I'm writing all this off of memory, and maybe Odysseus or Hossmosis can add some details.

chesty · **chesty**

UNC_Samurai · **UNC_Samurai**

Special Rule:

- After the Surface Attack phase, remove any damage markers from all Troop counters.

So, does this mean that after damage is allocated, any unit which isn't destroyed is at full health?

jfkziegler · **jfkziegler**

Version 1.3 is up. Please poke holes where needed, and let me know what you think. I greatly appreciate all the help I have gotten from everyone on these.
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chesty · **chesty**

chesty · **chesty**

chesty · **chesty**

jfkziegler · **jfkziegler**

Well, I tried another playtest of these rules today. I thought they played very well, and I was very satisfied with them.

The only thing that I didn't like was that the game got a little boring towards the end when both sides has their surface fleets mostly gone, but neither side could quite make that magical number of winning points. I'll have to think about whether that needs fixing or not.

One rule change that I noticed is needed - If auxiliaries are regenerating, they can't be counted as surface ships for the purpose of the fourth objective bonus points.

Of course, I am still anxious to hear about more playtests if anyone ends up playing some.
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