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AHF Silver-Rated Trader
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For your best all around build with the troops you have, I'd go:
1x shinden (16)
1x HBH (7)
2x Imp Sgt (18)
1x Para (5)
2x SNLF Fan (14)
6x Arisaka (18)
1x Mtr (9)
1x Ho-Ni (12)
You need more fanatics.
The unit limit hurts the Japanese more than anything else.
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Last edited by Sharpe on Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:25 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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 Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:35 am |
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| hey_yu wrote: | | The Soviet list is a light on the tanks (Probably balanced for the Japanese). Not sure about the spotter in the truck with the Indirect-Fire unit though. Did your opponent have the spotter in the truck, followed by a spot for the mortar fire and move truck out of harms way? |
I agree that he needed another T-34 at least. We did play a few games where he had 3 T-26s and 1 BT-7. In a strange way that was a tougher army for me to face as he had as many tanks as I did.
Against a lone T-34, my pair of Ho-Nis would generally take it out in a single turn by rushing up close and sacrificing themselves. That's one good thing I can say about the Japanese tanks - you don't feel too bad when they blow up.
He didn't put his spotter in a truck, instead using the transports for his PPSh-41s (in one game he took a few Soviet Grenadiers to go along with the SMGs). My usual tactic was to sacrifice my Zero to take out his spotter or mortar (whichever wasn't in cover). |
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| Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:48 am |
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| hey_yu wrote: | | You might want to think about using the 05/26/2009 update. It lifts the unit restrictions, allowing more a troop swarm which could be good for the Japanese. |
hey_yu,
Thank you for the link.
I read through the updated rules and I can definitely see how they would benefit the Japanese (as their primary weakness is armor). But I wonder... doesn't facing a massive infantry swarm slow the game down a lot? Either way, I'm not sure my group will go for these changes. They seem pretty drastic.
I also read through the revised cards and I was less than impressed with the Japanese. Unless I missed something, it seems only the Chi-Nu got a (slight) boost. The change to the Zero doesn't seem all that important to my style of play and the Type 95 Ha-Go lost the Forest Runner SA (for a meager 1 point reduction), actually making it worse. To top it all off, the Azud Hind Infantrymen is still 3 points. Huh? I can't say I'm inspired to pay the expense of color printing and cutting all those cards.
Anyway, I'm sure this has all been discussed before so I'll stick to the topic at hand - army lists.
| Sharpe wrote: | For your best all around build with the trrops you have, I'd go:
1x shinden (16)
1x HBH (7)
2x Imp Sgt (18)
1x Para (5)
2x SNLF Fan (14)
6x Arisaka (18)
1x Mtr (9)
1x Ho-Ni (12)
You need more fanatics. |
Thank you for the list. I will give this one a go as well.
If I switch over to the new rules, how many SNLF Fanatics are reasonable in a 100 point list?
Thanks again for all of the feedback, I truly appreciate it.
Sincerely,
Yipe |
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| Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:51 am |
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AHF Silver-Rated Trader
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Even if you don't want to switch, do:
Shinden Kai
2x Imp Sgt
1x Arisaka
9x Fanatic
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| Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:08 am |
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| Sharpe wrote: | Even if you don't want to switch, do:
Shinden Kai
2x Imp Sgt
1x Arisaka
9x Fanatic |
I thought there was a limit to the number of 5/5 defense soldiers you could field per 100 points - which is why I only own two SNLF Fanatics - but upon re-reading the rules, I guess there isn't.
Wow, nine Banzai Charging Fanatics. Eek. At least with this army list I won't get confused about which unit does what.
And just to clarify - the Imperial Sergeant doesn't benefit from the Banzai Charge SA, only adjacent friendly non-artillery soldiers. Correct? We've been playing that he can't Banzai Charge himself along with the rest of his IJA buddies into the enemy (though for 9 points and with a Hand to Hand 10 I sure wish he could).
My apologies for asking about rules in the Army Builds forum. It won't happen again... probably. I hope.
Sincerely,
Yipe |
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| Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:48 am |
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AHF Silver-Rated Trader
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Ask anywhere you want. What kind of old fuddy-duddy rules lawyers do you think we are?
It's just more likely to get answered in the rules thing unless you're in an active dialogue. I try to keep a close eye on the rules questions.
Yes, he can banzai himself. Every unit is by definition adjacent to itself. Also, he can only Banzai non-disrupted non-artillery soldiers.
Ah, for the good old days, when you could Banzai a PaK 40 two hexes and have it attack with +1 on each die. That was Japanese AT power.
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| Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:41 am |
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| Sharpe wrote: | | Yes, he can banzai himself. |
And everybody was Banzai Chargi - err, never mind.
Thanks for the rules clarification, that's great news. It never felt quite right to leave the poor Imperial Sergeant behind while his men rushed forward to certain death (or disruption). I'm a firm believer that he should die along with the rest of his troops! |
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| Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:44 pm |
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| acs0424 wrote: | | Hm, with the fuel/ammo dump you could create a fast tank army of ha-gos and chi-has. |
Something like this?
IJA TANK COMPANY (1942)
Type 95 Ha-Go Tank x4
Type 97 Chi-Ha Tank x4
Ammo Dump
Fuel Depot
This would be fun to play, but it lacks anti-armor punch. I might be better to go with:
IJA TANK COMPANY (1942)
Type 1 Ho-Ni Tank x2
Type 95 Ha-Go Tank x4
Type 97 Chi-Ha Tank x2
Ammo Dump
Fuel Depot
Total Units: 10
Total Points: 100
This could make for some surprise moves on a heavily forested map. In theory, the Ha-Gos could cover 13 hexes in the first turn (3 up for deployment, 5 in the movement phase and 5 in the assault phase) while ignoring any forest terrain. I'm not sure what they would do when they got to the other side of the map, but it would be entertaining nonetheless.
Sincerely,
Yipe |
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| Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:07 pm |
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AHF Silver-Rated Trader
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You only deploy two hexes in on the 3" maps.
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| Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:16 pm |
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| Sharpe wrote: | | You only deploy two hexes in on the 3" maps. |
I'm so confused.
According to my Advanced Rules booklet, which cites 3" hex maps, you deploy 3 hexes in.
Then the Advanced Rules I downloaded instruct you to deploy 5 hexes in. Granted, that is for much larger map configurations and most likely using 2" hex maps.
Finally, the Expanded Rules say to deploy 3 hexes in. The Expanded Rules don't cite whether that is for 2" or 3" hex maps, but the photos are of the newer 3" maps.
Help! I don't want to play with an incorrect rules set. Where can I find the rules that tell you to deploy 2 hexes in when using 3" hex maps? Have I overlooked an important change to the game? And if I missed that, what else am I doing wrong?
I wonder... With so many rules editions, revised rules and revised cards on top of those, is it possible that no one is playing the same game?
Sincerely,
Yipe
P.S. My opponents and I almost always play on a single 3" map, deploying 3 hexes in. It keeps our games short and bloody, and the close-in fighting helps out the Japanese a little. Starting a hex back won't change things too much, but I've found when it comes to the IJA every little bit helps. |
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| Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:20 pm |
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AHF Silver-Rated Trader
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| Yipe wrote: | | Sharpe wrote: | | You only deploy two hexes in on the 3" maps. |
I wonder... With so many rules editions, revised rules and revised cards on top of those, is it possible that no one is playing the same game?
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Exactly.
I'll have to dig out a rule book and check. We always play 2 hexes in, but we could be wrong.
We are. It says three. What do you know? Of course, it might have said two in the Expanded rules when we first encountered 3" maps or it could have been on the website. I can't find the Expanded Rules book, but I'll keep looking.
My apologies for confusing you.
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| Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:33 pm |
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1x Imperial Sergeant - 9
1x Honor-Bound Hero - 7
1x Type 92 Machine-Gun Team
4x SNLF Fanatics - 28
4x Arisaka Rifle - 12
1x Type 3 Chi-Nu - 18
2x Type 97 Chi-Ha - 24
1x SNLF Paratroopers - 5
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110 (Expanded Rules)
I've had success with this build. Drop the paratrooper in behind, back him up with the hero, and then press forward with the others. It's a simple formula, but that's all this army needs to be successful. There's probably going to be a numerical and quality advantage with the infantry, and the three tanks are usually able to hold their own with Shermans, resulting in all the tanks dying on both sides, but they cost a lot less. Worst case scenario, the Imperial Sergeant's Banzai Charge gives everyone a +1 to their close assault attacks against any enemy tanks. I've never lost as Japan yet (most of the time I do play 200 point battles though).
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| Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:59 pm |
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| Sharpe wrote: | | My apologies for confusing you. |
No apology needed, I live in a state of confusion.
I do think it's amazing that this game has survived so many iterations. Other games I've played have died out after far fewer - and less drastic - changes. I believe that's a testament to the creative talents of AAM hobbyists (and this community in particular) who can see the game's potential even beyond some of its flaws.
And back to the Japanese... we're happy to start 3 hexes in! Banzai Charging through dense forest and jungle hexes is tough work. |
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| Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:46 pm |
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Holding the line...
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| Sharpe wrote: | | I think the points for the Cossack Captain, trucks, mortar and observer could have been better spent. The key to beating the Japanese is lots and lots of shots, even average shots like 6 dice. |
I agree, I can't recall how many times my company's worth of Arisakas would be shredded by Vickers MG teams, Brens, ...etc
The point is, the Japanese are missing a lot of support pieces. No SMG, no LMG, not even an FO for their howitzer. Their officers are solid, and so is their basic infantry, then there are the Fanatics, but against Armour, they are weak, anyway you look at it.
If your serious about playing the Japanese historically, you will justhave to accept that there are many gaps in their unit line-up, at least for now.
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| Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:44 am |
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"Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak, Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." - Churchill
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Well when it comes to tanks the Japs didn't really have anything as far as I know. But for AT power you will just have to close assault.
As far as I know the expanded rules is everything you need to know rule wise. Overwatch, enfilade, and grazing fire may or may not be used. If you use revised cards the platoons are obsolete.
All in all the japs don't fair well in AAM. The people at WoTC have a bias towards americans in AAM and WAS (though most of it is accurate). The japs need to be allowed to ignore unit limits in AAM or be given more units.
Their MG isn't that good though they have a great mortar and great basic infantry. Honestly, the Japs probably have the best infantry army in the game, unless your facing garands and red devil captains, then you're screwed.
The japs can win, it is just difficult.
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"Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak, Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." - Churchill
+45 on GTL
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| Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:38 pm |
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