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weedsrock2

 
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squint181 wrote:
I don't think so.  Was there one in particular you were looking at.  I did an auto update to make all of my models in the new material.  It is quite possible I messed up and changed my base mark up on something.  I just went through a few listings and they seem right.


I looked at several. I guess I haven't purchased the detail plastics for awhile and didn't notice how much they were now. That pricing is a pretty big barrier to entry IMO. Definitely not for mass production.
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PostWed Oct 12, 2016 9:26 pm
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squint181

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I't seems like it, but I think it's more that WSF has dropped in  price twice now, while the Frosted have stayed the same. (Well expect Extreme detail which was the most expensive when it was introduced)
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PostFri Oct 14, 2016 10:59 pm
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squint181

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So here is a interesting bit of info about this material. It is printed and shipped with support nubs. This holds overhanging material up while the layers are being laid down.  You will need to cut them away when you get it.

Shapeways was nice enough to post an article about it, and use my USS Arkansas as the example print.

https://www.shapeways.com/blog/ar...ques-support-and-nub-removal.html




I still think the material looks amazing, and will let everyone know how much a pain the supports are when I get some in.
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PostSun Oct 16, 2016 3:39 pm
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weedsrock2

 
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That seems like a lot of excess plastic to print. Probably part of the high cost?

Thanks for sharing.
PostSun Oct 16, 2016 6:14 pm
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Grgbobe

 

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My only concern is the:

Final Finishing Step

Once you have sanded off those final nubs and are left with a smooth surface, a few small white marks from the tools may remain. This is where the mineral oil or lotion comes in. These can be gently painted on the material to moisturize and remove the superficial scratches and scrapes.


I'm wondering what further treatment is necessary to get primer to stick to the model after mineral oil or lotion is added...generally, any kind of oil will keep primer from sticking well to the model.  Can't wait to get your thoughts on that, squint!
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PostWed Oct 19, 2016 5:45 pm
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Otto von Starkburg

 

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My thought: Dish-liquid?
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PostThu Oct 20, 2016 3:48 am
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Otto von Starkburg wrote:
My thought: Dish-liquid?


Dawn dishsoap cuts grease/oil quite well. It even cleans car grease/oil/basic crud off hands pretty well. Very Happy
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PostThu Oct 20, 2016 3:54 am
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Grgbobe

 

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Sorry, maybe I should clarify.  Will the scratches & scrapes return when the oil is removed?  Maybe a better question is how does the oil fill in those areas in the first place?  Guess I better order something to find out...
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PostThu Oct 20, 2016 6:46 am
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weedsrock2

 
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Grgbobe wrote:
Sorry, maybe I should clarify.  Will the scratches & scrapes return when the oil is removed?  Maybe a better question is how does the oil fill in those areas in the first place?  Guess I better order something to find out...


If scratches or scrapes are an issue I recommend using Mr. Surfaced primer. It is designed to be used on scale models to fill in slight scratches. It has fine clay particles in the paint that fill in the scratches. Scale modelers swear by it. Especially car modelers that really need a pristine body surface.
PostSat Oct 22, 2016 7:31 am
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squint181

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Ok so got my first test prints in.  But a few things to mention before I get into it.  This material needs a somewhat flat surface to build off of.  So all of my double destroyer packs that has one destroyer underneath and at 180 degrees from the one on top will not be printable.  

Second, it only took 6 days from order to receiving them in the mail.  Don't know if that is how fast it will always be, but it is comparable in turn around time to WSF.  As far as price I'll compare to the Kerch, a smallish battleship.  It  $8.62 in WSF
$20.04 in Frosted Ultra Detail
$27.95 in Frosted Extreme Detail
$18.46 in Black Hi-Def

So it beats both Frosted in price.  And I think its nearly as durable as WSF.  Survived several Drop tests from chest height with no damage.  And while it won't beat WSF in price, the detail difference is striking.  Easily worth the nearly double in price.

Kerch in WSF vs Black Hi-Def





Now the negatives.  As you can see from the second picture, we got a bit of bananaing going on.  I haven't tried the hot water trick, will post if it works.
Also, the ships come cut free from the supports, I suppose that they are doing it at Shapeways, for now at least.  But the supports are quite noticeable on the underside. I think a quick bit of sanding should take care of it though.  



There is only a few oily patches from the manufacturing process.  And they are spares and only in those hard to reach places, under barrels, in tight corners.  Will soak in Dawn and see what happens.

There is also a lot of striation in the material, particularly on flat surfaces.  It feels smooth though, so it may not show through a few layers of paint.  

I'm not much of a painter, but I am going to paint both of these using the exact same process and see how they compare when I'm done.  (Again I am not much of a painter)  

Also here is the Chapayev and Draconian Hatchet Fighter.  Again some bending on the cruiser.  And while the Fighter looks great from the top and side, the underside is really mared by the supports.  



All in all, I think it is a far superior materiel to the Frosted, both in price and rigidity.  And for the person that only buys a few ships here or there to fill out their collection, the detail kills WSF and is well worth the price.  The edges are sharp and clear, the fine details show up brilliant.  And this in one of my designs, I can only imagine what Matt's will look like.
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PostTue Oct 25, 2016 3:28 am
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Otto von Starkburg

 

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The bending of the ships didn't realy fits into the positive writings about the material and is, thats my opinion, a knock out criteria.

I hope, that putting the into boiling water is solution.
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PostTue Oct 25, 2016 5:00 am
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Grgbobe

 

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Wow, I ordered 3 ships in the black HD acrylate and they were done/shipped in 3 days.  Pretty amazing...way faster than FUD.  I'll post some pics of them here when they arrive.  I'll be interested in the "banana boat" phenomenon...squint, any idea what the melting point of this material is if I need to shape them?
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PostTue Oct 25, 2016 5:40 pm
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Grgbobe

 

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So, I bought Argus and Brittannia from squint and a Lexington class BB/BC from Tiny Thingamajigs.  They came in yesterday and I took some pics today.

Lex First:

Side:

You can see it has the banana boat effect going and, hopefully, you can see the support verticals under the guns etc.

3/4 Iso:

OK, some oil residue, which shouldn't be a big deal, but I'm a bit surprised at the "stair-stepping" effect on the deck...especially after seeing Brittannia's deck...

Brittannia:

Side:

More banana boat, but also the bottom of the hull at the prow didn't print properly.  If I flatten the ship, it still retains quite the gap.

3/4 Iso:

This is more of what I was expecting, a nice, clean deck.  Flat with nice detail.

Argus:

Top-Down:

Didn't do a side shot since it sits flat.  Pretty much what I expected.

3/4 Iso:

Looks a little rougher than I expected.

Hmm, I'm undecided on the BHDA material at this point.  Generally, the detail is comparable to FUD, but the "banana boat" effect seems a little more pronounced.  The material is rather rubbery and the support structures that remain, for example, under the turrets of Brittannia may prove difficult to trim off (the turrets aren't removable on this ship, so the supports seem hard to reach).  

FUD may remain my material of choice for ships; we'll see.  I definitely hope the aircraft makers will try their models in BHDA as I think it might hit that sweet spot of durability and detail I like.  More to follow as I work on these.

Cheers,

Grg
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Hap Hapablap

 

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Otto von Starkburg wrote:
The bending of the ships didn't realy fits into the positive writings about the material and is, thats my opinion, a knock out criteria.


Yeah, very close to being a knock out criteria for sure. Graf Spee just arrived from Roe's store. The sculpt is awesome and the material is exactly what I had hoped it would be in terms of detail, finish and overall feel. It *seems* like it will paint with very little prep work compared the ages I spend prepping WSF. ...but, the banana-ing is pretty pronounced. If it straightens out with hot/cold, this may be a material of choice for me. If not, nope...
PostTue Nov 01, 2016 12:26 am
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Fighting 6

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Hello everyone,

I just got my first model in Black HD Acrylate, USS Constellation. It looks great, definitely has a bend in it and it feels odd to the touch compared to what I'm used to. I've started cleaning it up but was wondering, has anyone got to the point of painting one of these BHDA models? If so what kind of prep did you do and how is it taking paint? I'd really like to hear your thoughts. Oh, also, anyone having any luck getting the bend out of these things? If so, what method did you use? Thanks in advance.
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PostMon Dec 12, 2016 6:04 pm
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squint181

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Fighting 6 wrote:
Hello everyone,

I just got my first model in Black HD Acrylate, USS Constellation. It looks great, definitely has a bend in it and it feels odd to the touch compared to what I'm used to. I've started cleaning it up but was wondering, has anyone got to the point of painting one of these BHDA models? If so what kind of prep did you do and how is it taking paint? I'd really like to hear your thoughts. Oh, also, anyone having any luck getting the bend out of these things? If so, what method did you use? Thanks in advance.


A few hot water baths will take care of the bending.  If possible, use a splint (butter knife works) to hold it straight while it cools off.   I was able to get the Kerch about 90% better.  There is still a touch of a bend, but nothing like it was before.
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PostFri Dec 16, 2016 3:59 am
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weedsrock2

 
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I am waiting for my first order of a couple of models in this material. I am not at all encouraged by these reports. The bending is not great, but it looks to me like all the injection points will be a lot of work to clean up.
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PostFri Dec 16, 2016 4:41 am
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Grgbobe

 

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Fighting 6 wrote:
Hello everyone,

I just got my first model in Black HD Acrylate, USS Constellation. It looks great, definitely has a bend in it and it feels odd to the touch compared to what I'm used to. I've started cleaning it up but was wondering, has anyone got to the point of painting one of these BHDA models? If so what kind of prep did you do and how is it taking paint? I'd really like to hear your thoughts. Oh, also, anyone having any luck getting the bend out of these things? If so, what method did you use? Thanks in advance.


How were your turrets?  One thing I noticed about mine (now that I've finally had a chance to work on it) was that the "stems" of the turrets are fused into the barbette.  After working on it for about 20 minutes, I finally decided to simply break them off.  Now I'm going to have to drill out the holes so the remaining "stem" will fit in place.

The Argus printed nicely in BHDA, but the Constellation and the Brittannia have both been disappointments.  I just received the 3rd print of the Brittannia and it looks like they finally got it correct (although the banana boat effect is in full force).  

While I need a few more to really make a decision, I think most ships I'll revert back to FUD.  All of the supports under the turrets and such are kind of a pain and take up prep time.  I moved to FUD instead of WSF because I disliked all of the prep time that WSF takes to get it smooth.  Things like the Argus I'll probably stay with BHDA, i.e. few fiddly bits or delicate parts.  I still want to try some aircraft in BHDA...
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PostFri Dec 16, 2016 11:49 pm
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weedsrock2

 
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Grgbobe wrote:
 I still want to try some aircraft in BHDA...


Maybe order some gull winged aircraft first! I am afraid aircraft may look like WotC Catalina's with this plastic.
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PostSat Dec 17, 2016 3:34 am
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Fighting 6

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Grgbobe wrote:
Fighting 6 wrote:
Hello everyone,

I just got my first model in Black HD Acrylate, USS Constellation. It looks great, definitely has a bend in it and it feels odd to the touch compared to what I'm used to. I've started cleaning it up but was wondering, has anyone got to the point of painting one of these BHDA models? If so what kind of prep did you do and how is it taking paint? I'd really like to hear your thoughts. Oh, also, anyone having any luck getting the bend out of these things? If so, what method did you use? Thanks in advance.


How were your turrets?  One thing I noticed about mine (now that I've finally had a chance to work on it) was that the "stems" of the turrets are fused into the barbette.  After working on it for about 20 minutes, I finally decided to simply break them off.  Now I'm going to have to drill out the holes so the remaining "stem" will fit in place.

The Argus printed nicely in BHDA, but the Constellation and the Brittannia have both been disappointments.  I just received the 3rd print of the Brittannia and it looks like they finally got it correct (although the banana boat effect is in full force).  

While I need a few more to really make a decision, I think most ships I'll revert back to FUD.  All of the supports under the turrets and such are kind of a pain and take up prep time.  I moved to FUD instead of WSF because I disliked all of the prep time that WSF takes to get it smooth.  Things like the Argus I'll probably stay with BHDA, i.e. few fiddly bits or delicate parts.  I still want to try some aircraft in BHDA...


The turrets were fused and I did break off two trying to "unfuse" them. Not a huge big deal. More interesting was that after soaking the hull the barrels on the rear turret split a little on the ends. I dipped them in superglue and held them together with a metal tweezer. This seems to have fixed that issue. I'm going to try the hot/cold method on the banana boat syndrome. I'll let you know how that turns out. I did do it once and it didn't hold so I'm going to try it again. Also, I did manage to break a crane off while cleaning so it is possible to break things off of these models.

I love the detail of this material and I love the model I'm really hoping it will be fixable and that it will take paint. It will probably be a material I only use rarely though. I'm thinking like on small BB's and CV's but really depends on how I get this one to turn out.


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PostSat Dec 17, 2016 8:02 pm
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