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Ecclesiastes

 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been;


Joined: 31 Aug 2009
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Post subject: Naval War  Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
Update:

Hello all,

The newest version of Naval War, my WWII Naval Miniatures Wargame has come online today, on a brand-new website!

Check it out on www.naval-war.com

Everyone who registers on the new site before december 6 will also receive a 15% discount voucher from Topside Miniatures (www.topsideminis.com), valid for December. An excellent opportunity to get into WWII Naval Wargaming Smile






Old message:
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I've been working in the past months on my own Naval ruleset, grinding and polishing as I go.

I've started to playtest the set with my dutch collegues of the forumini and the enthousiastic reactions I've received encouraged me to continue the development.

Last night Toyama and me played a playtest battle. A cruiser action with Germany Vs UK and it was quite tense and a load of fun.

Since I'ts not War at Sea, I'm making this post in the Other Wargames thread to not clutter op the WaS forums.

I'll see if I can add the battlereport in this thread

If anyone is interested in hearing more about it, just ask in this thread, meanwhile, the players involved can use it for feedback, battlereports etc.
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Last edited by Ecclesiastes on Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:45 am; edited 4 times in total
PostThu Jan 08, 2015 11:12 am
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Ecclesiastes

 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been;


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Well, I finally got to some more Naval War playtesting. So for the occasion I made my first Naval War Battlereport!

The game setting is 'pickup' game, so no historical scenario. This also gives me the opportunity to see if my point values make sense and provide a somewhat even matchup.

Order of Battle:

Germany

Officer: Konteradmiral
- CA Admiral Graf Spee
- CA Admiral Scheer
- CA Prinz Eugen

Officer Kommodore
- DD Z-24
- DD Z-26
- DD Z-27



United Kingdom
Officer: Commodore
- CA Exeter
- CL Leander
- CL Achilles
- CL Neptune

Officer: Commander
- DD Jervis
- DD Jackal
- DD Kipling
- DD Kelvin



The mix of forces left the Germans with fewer ships but better range and firepower while the british had more ships but they really need to close the range to win this battle.


Turn 1:

Both sides maneuvered to get their squadrons into formation (the deployment zone was a bit cramped due to the size of the table, 140x120cm)


Turn 2:
The German destroyer squadron headed south in a flanking maneuver while the Graf Spee and Admiral Sheer opened up at extreme range at Exeter, straddeling the ship for minor damage. It was a bleak foreboding though, because the british ships were still out of range and the destroyers were in no position yet to cover the cruisers.

Turn 3:
Now steadily closing the range, all three German heavy cruisers upen up with their big guns on Exeter, wracking the ship from head to stern and leaving it a burning wreck. The British destroyers, now finally in position lost their lead ship to enemy destroyer fire and secondairies from the big cruisers. Still they now make smoke to cover the british squadrons.

Turn 4
The British cruisers finally get their bearings on the german destroyer squadron and pummel the lead ship leaving it dead in the water.

The little british DD's show their teath and start shooting their 5" peashooters at the leading German cruiser, and in a stroke of luck, they set off one of her deck torpedo launchers, starting fires all over her stern.

The Germans are still focussed at the cruiser squadron though and they do not see the immediate danger they are in.... Still, they manage to fatally hit the second British cruiser with a deadly volume of fire from 11" and 8" guns.

With the Heavy Cruisers occupied, the British Destroyer squadron seizes the initiative by maneuvering between the two german squadrons. To late the Heavy cruisers notice the danger they are in with the nimble tin cans sailing into torpedo range. Still, not all is lost because the two remaining German DD's try to avert the danger. Throwing all they have at the lead destroyer, guns, torpedo's, all at short range, they blow up the lead British DD in a great ball of fire.

A very exiting turn indeed....


Turn 5
The british player gets the initiative this turn (thanks to the guys at bletchley park doing their jobs), and the remaining two destroyers empty both their torpedo banks at the tight German cruiser column. The Admiral Sheer takes no less than 5 torpedo's to her side and capsizes while Prinz Eugen takes only one out of ten torpedo's (!) fired at her and only suffers some minor fires.

Still, this could be the turning point for the British as the German heavy cruisers frantically try to get rid of the two destroyers within their formation, overwhelming them in a sea of 11", 8" and 6" shells and torpedo's from the destroyers. Still, the brave sacrifice of the DD crews opened up a small window of victory for the Britisch as their cruisers now heavily damage Graf Spee forcing her to break off the action and seek refuge in a rain squall, limping away from the battle with a damaged engine and fires still burning on her rear deck.


Turn 6
The remaining British cruisers maneuver to cross the T of the destroyer Squadron, trying to take out a DD and the damaged Prinz Eugen to win the battle. But in the chaos of battle the lead cruiser targets the DD instead of the CA! A full broadside and a torpedo spread sends the lead destroyer to the bottom of the sea, leaving the Prinz Eugen intact and the second british Cruiser losing precious time reaquiring a different target. A costly mistake, giving the Prinz Eugen and the remaining DD a perfect chance of finishing up the damaged british cruiser.

Turn 7
Risking all or nothing, the british cruiser heads for the rainsquall and empties his torpedo tubes to finish off the Prinz Eugen. But alas, all the fishes miss in the rough seas of the squall and now caught between a rock and a hard place, the last british cruiser is sent to the bottom by torpedo's and gunfire....


A tightly fought German victory. Although at a high cost, with Graf Spee out of the battle, Prinz Eugen heavily damaged and only one destroyer remaining.


Post Battle analysis:

I was playing the British and my plan was to use my DD squadron to cover my Cruisers with smoke to close the distance. It didnt work because I sent the DD's in a wide turn to get between my cruisers and the enemy, which took to much time, leaving the cruisers vulnerable to the long range fire of the german 11" guns. I really got a break when I could maneuver my DDs into torpedo range of the cruisers, but it wasnt enough to take them all out of the battle.

The coup the grace was achieved by the very clever use of the command station by my opponent, making me shoot the wrong target (a DD instead of a damaged Prinz Eugen) at a critical moment. Which resulted in much hilarity.

Sidenotes:

1. I need to revise the critical hit chart a bit, especially moving the torpedo bank hit to a 'less probable to happen' tier.
2. I really loved the way my opponent outsmarted me by clever use of his actions, and I also loved the way the activation sequence allowed me to sneak up on the german cruisers while they were occupied with the British cruisers.
3. I'm going to remove the 'short' range bonus on torpedo's. Since short range is 20cm and torpedo range is 25cm it practically always kicks in and it makes the fishes too deadly in my opinion. Really bad dicerolling saved Prinz Eugen this time, but with just an average roll it would have sunk, which is a bit too effective for my taste.
4. I definately need to get rid of the table clutter, since it was a playtest I was still looking for the right markers and we kept the command stations and statcards on the board because we were still learning our stats (by the end of the battle we knew most stats by heart, so its just laziness to have so much clutter on the table, and I had room on the sides to keep the command stations).
5. I need to add a 'filler' action on the command station. Many actions are fun but situational, and in many instances it leaves the player with to few choices to place his order dice. An action that a player can use to put his 'excess' dice is needed. I'm thinking in the way of a reroll action, for instance to allow the rerolling of one die of the players choosing in the shooting phase, or armor save, etc.
6. The battle was very close fought, showing that I might be on the right track with my points formula. Next step is to make forces of a different makup but the same points value and see how they work out (BB vs DD's, etc)

Thanks for reading if you got this far! Wink
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PostThu Jan 08, 2015 11:16 am
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Ecclesiastes

 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been;


Joined: 31 Aug 2009
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Soo, Pendragon and Toyama (EK was out of the country if I remember correctly?), are we still on for the Battle of cape Spartivento on the 28th? I'm busy creating the required ship statcards and I've almost finished the Italian Command station...

Will you both be able to make it? I'd rather just assist with the game instead of playing myself. Leaves more room for taking notes and pictures for the battlereport and playtesting...

By the way, if you guys want to be included in the playtesters mailing list, gaining access to the PDF's and getting updates, just PM me your e-mail adress and I'll add you.
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PostThu Feb 12, 2015 7:37 am
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EvilKobra

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Ecclesiastes wrote:
(EK was out of the country if I remember correctly?)

Yes, until mid-March Sad

Looking forward to seeing the reports and pictures though!
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PostThu Feb 12, 2015 7:49 am
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Ecclesiastes

 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been;


Joined: 31 Aug 2009
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EvilKobra wrote:
Ecclesiastes wrote:
(EK was out of the country if I remember correctly?)

Yes, until mid-March Sad

Looking forward to seeing the reports and pictures though!


If your bored, I've put the 0.7 version online, including a modest start on the first fleet list, Operation Weserübung. Its not finished by a long shot, but it might give you a bit of an idea how the fleet building mechanic works. Smile
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PostThu Feb 12, 2015 7:52 am
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EvilKobra

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Awesome, I'll check it out Smile
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PostThu Feb 12, 2015 7:54 am
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pendragon68

 Lord, let us be grateful for what we are about to receive

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i am still on, i have a miniature for all ships present int he scenario, and am busy repainting a few of them, including some ghastly Mountbatten Pink ones.
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PostThu Feb 12, 2015 3:30 pm
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Toyama

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Things are gearing towards me being able to attend your table Smile

So, please put me in the playtesters mailing list. I'm curious as to what awaits me there.
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PostThu Feb 12, 2015 8:06 pm
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Ecclesiastes

 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been;


Joined: 31 Aug 2009
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Can you guys also bring your trade bait for Britain, Italy and Germany? I might need to extend my fleets to be able to play my own scenario's Smile

If you PM me your e-mail toyama, I'll give you access to the onedrive folders. I already finished the Italian cards and command station in the meantime. Now I only need to add the missing cards to my UK file.
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PostThu Feb 12, 2015 8:29 pm
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Ecclesiastes

 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been;


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Thanks for the game and the trades Pendragon Smile I'll need to find some time to write a battle report though.... Very Happy

Some playtest conclusions:

- The Italian national rule didn't work as intended, I'll need to rewrite that one.
- Air units are way to vulnerable, so those will need to be tweaked a bit to be more survivable (and AA toned down a bit)
- We did pretty well, you're a first time player, so I needed to explain the game from the ground up, still we managed to play the (huge, considering the forces involved) battle within a 3 hour time slot. Not to its conclusion, but there was more than enough action to make it worthwile.

So I'm happily doing some more rewriting and tweaking for version 0.8. I'm also working on US and Japanese Fleets for the Battle of the Coral Sea OOB book. workwork Smile
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PostThu Mar 05, 2015 8:25 am
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pendragon68

 Lord, let us be grateful for what we are about to receive

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You are most welcome Eccles, it was a very enjoyable afternoon, and it was a pleasure to play the game with you.

The game is easy to learn, you really have to manage your options very careful, which will be the challenge, even if you know the rules better. This makes it always a different game, which keeps it attractive without too many SA's

The best part is to have been able to find out things to make the game even better, it definitely deserves a place in the game developer section of DUCOSIM conventions.

Glad to hear you are going to tweak the Italian command sheet, next to the changes on the general sections of the command sheets.

I am looking forward to see a glimpse of the Coral Sea some time, you have invested a lot of time and effort in it, and from what I have seen, it has definitely been worth the effort.

Wink
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PostThu Mar 05, 2015 1:56 pm
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Ecclesiastes

 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been;


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I'm quite busy with updating everything to version 0.9 which is going to have some major changes. On the 30th of May I have an appointment with EvilKobra to play a game (or two) on the DUCOSIM convention. I've made a public folder on my Onedrive in which I have stored the Norway-1940 Order of Battle pdf, which can be used to construct a German or British fleet. I've also included two word-documents containing all the relevant ship-data cards of ships available in the lists.

For those interested, the folder is public, so curious by-passers can also take a look at the files.

EK: I'm still working on the revised main rules, those will be available in the play-testers folder shortly. In the meantime, have fun constructing a fleet of 250 points for our coming battle. Dont bother printing the cards for the convention, I will have them all with me.

The link:
http://1drv.ms/1zX9kKw
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PostTue May 12, 2015 10:09 am
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Ecclesiastes

 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been;


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Ok, EK asked me to construct some fleets from the fleet lists so we can pick which one we'll be playing with saturday. I thought it would be nice to share to hear others' opinion about them.

I came up with the following 5 lists for Ze DJermanz:

Zerstörer gruppe 1
Destroyer squadron:               3x Type 1934a, 1x Type 1936 DD
Destroyer squadron:               3x Type 1934a, 1x Type 1936 DD
Heavy Cruiser support:           1x Deutschland class CA
Luftwaffe support:                 9x JU88
                                          3x BF110c
Officer:                                 Kommodore

Zerstörer gruppe 2
Destroyer squadron:               3x Type 1934a, 1x Type 1936 DD
Destroyer squadron:               3x Type 1934a, 1x Type 1936 DD
Battleship support:                 1x Scharnhorst class BB
Officer:                                 Kommodore

Leichte kreuzer gruppe
Light Cruiser squadron:             2x Königsberg class CL
                                          3x Type 23/24 class TB
Battleship support:                 1x Scharnhorst class BB
S-boat support:                     4x S-boat
                                          1x S-boat Tender
Officer:                                 Konteradmiral

Schwere kreuzer gruppe 1
Heavy Cruiser squadron:          2x Hipper class CA
                                         2x Type 23/24 class TB
Destroyer squadron:               3x Type 1934a, 1x Type 1936 DD
Heavy Cruiser support:            1x Deutschland class CA
Officer:                                Konteradmiral Oskar Kummetz

Schwere kreuzer gruppe 2
Heavy Cruiser squadron:          2x Hipper class CA
                                         2x Type 23/24 class TB
Destroyer squadron:               3x Type 1934a, 1x Type 1936 DD
U-Boat support:                    2x Type VII class U-boat
Luftwaffe support:                 3x BF110c
Officer:                                Konteradmiral

All 5 lists are 249/250 points sharp.
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PostTue May 26, 2015 12:38 pm
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Ecclesiastes

 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been;


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I am currently still painting up my Royal navy, so my selection for the british is a bit more limited. I came up with the following 2 lists:

Cruiser Force
Cruiser squadron:              2x County class CA
                                    1x Town class CL
                                    1x Arethusa class CL
Escorting destroyers:        2x J-K-N class DD
Carrier support:                1x Courageous class CV
                                    2x Sea gladiator
                                    3x Swordfish
                                    1x A-class DD
Officer:                           Rear-Admiral

Battleship Force
Battleship squadron:          1x Nelson class BB
Escorting destroyers:         3x Tribal class DD
Cruiser support:                2x County class CA
Submarine support:           1x S-class SS
Officer:                           Vice-Admiral
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PostTue May 26, 2015 1:53 pm
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EvilKobra

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Coolness!

At first I was thinking, "8 DDs + 1 CA cost the same as 4 DDs + 3 CAs? That doesn't seem very balanced..."

Then I saw ze Flugzeuge Very Happy

Guess I'll have to read the airplane rules too Laughing

I've read (and annotated) the surface combat rules in depth a couple of times, and was assuming we'd playtest those first before adding air/subs. But I'm happy to go the whole nine yards from the beginning if you're comfortable with it. At a glance, the aircraft rules seem straightforward and streamlined - and the sub rules very familiar Wink
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PostTue May 26, 2015 1:59 pm
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Ecclesiastes

 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been;


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As you can see there are also fleet lists that dont have the gimmicks in them like S-boats, subs or planes, so if we feel like it we can just start out with a surface engagement.

Besides, if you wanted to field the JU-88's and the BF110's, you'll have to bring them yourself, for I have aquired none yet myself Very Happy
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PostTue May 26, 2015 2:02 pm
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EvilKobra

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Hehe, I have a bunch of 88s but no 110s - though we could easily proxy them if needed, of course. I'll just bring all my Euro aircraft Smile

At first glance, I'd be inclined to try pitting the Cruiser Force vs any of German lists 1, 2 or 4. Medium-sized ships and (some) aircraft, but leaving subs, S-boats and large BBs.
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PostTue May 26, 2015 2:21 pm
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Ecclesiastes

 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been;


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I'd better go paint that HMS Glorious then... Wink
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PostTue May 26, 2015 6:08 pm
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pendragon68

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looks like you two will have a ton of fun saturday ) and yes, now it s my time to look green with envy. (referring to Toyama´s post)

On the other hand, i will be celebrating my oldest sons 7th birthday and that is something i wouldn´t want to miss.
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PostWed May 27, 2015 6:26 am
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EvilKobra

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Ha! I'm sure we'll have a blast, but your WW2 campaign is the envy of the entire forum Very Happy

Enjoy your son's birthday!

BTW, have either of you been to the newly (re)opened Militair Museum? It looks amazing but I haven't found the time to visit yet.


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