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I checked in "Die Deutsche Kriegschiffe 1815 - 1945" by Erich Groner. This book is in German. It gives substantial information on all the German ships but, I don't know a lot of the vocabulary.
Turggud Reiss was the former Weissenburg, built in 1891, last of a class of 4. The other ships were: Kurfurst Friedrich Wilhelm (also sold to Turkey), Brandenburg and Worth( with umlaut on the o). Their tiral speeds ranged from 16 to 17 kt. The armor was by Krupp and not the less effective Harvey or compound.
Displacement is listed as 10,013 to 10,670 tons. Original cost about 16,000,000 marks.
For your information, here is a conversion table for the different types of armor
100mm Krupp Cement (KC) = 130 mm Harvey Steel = 300 mm Schmiedeeisen (I think steel) = 200 mm compound sandwich = about 60 mm Wotan Hard = about 80mm Wotan Weich.
One reason the belt thickness declined on Early British predreadnoughts was the change from Harvey Steel to Krupp Cement.
Conway's for 1860 - 1905 said the midships guns were 35 caliber to allow them to train on either beam. They were unsatisfactory, due to being too close to the deck and causing blast damage. Displacement is given as 10,501 tons.
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 Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:22 am |
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Blast damage when the center turret is used ? Humm, the plot thickens. Thank you for that excellent information, please let us know if you find anything else that we might find useful.
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| Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:28 am |
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I wonder whether given her record Turgut Reis should get POOR GUNNERY: When this unit attacks with its big guns, each six rolled counts as one success only.
Someone else can find better wording for this.
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| Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:56 pm |
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Yes or how about Untrained Gunners : When this unit attacks with a large battery ( or Main guns, depending on what version of the rules you are using ) this unit inflicts only one hit for each 6 rolled.
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| Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:35 pm |
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Beta (LMS) series Turgut Reis
Turgut Reis 2.2 million dollars
Turkey Battleship/Pre-Dreadnought Sep. 1910
Spd = 1
FOF Bow Broadside Stern
L Btty */9/8/6 11/10/9/7 */9/8/6
L Btty NA 9/8/7/5 NA
S Btty */1/1 3/2/1 */1/1
AA = 2
TT = 1
DA = 5
Armor = 8 Vital Armor = 11 Hull = 3
POOR GUNNERY : Any 6's rolled when firing this units Large Batteries count for one hit instead of two.
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| Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:22 am |
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Here's a Turk ND, I haven't had a chance to study your new Turkish web-site, but I will. Gotta go to the job now, If I'm not too tired I'll post some more late tonight
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| Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:30 am |
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I suggest
POOR GUNNERY : This unit gets -1 on each attack die when making Large Gunnery attacks.
It has exactly the same expected number of successes, but is worded in terms we're used to in WAS.
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| Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:32 am |
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Sounds wunderbar mein freund.
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| Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:16 am |
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There is one thing that bothers me with DR stats. Armour seems to be too high for the gunnery stats we selected. For example, say that Averoff or any other Pisa-class armoured cruiser that is designed to confront battleships, makes his spirited attack at range 1. He rolls 9 dice to get 8 successes. The probability is only 14% to get that.
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| Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:08 pm |
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You are correct, the intent of the design was to be able to function against battleships, that does not mean that Armored Cruiser's were actually very succesful at it.(Georges Averoff didn't sink one either, she drove them off)
Lets get Swarbs, Brass and others to chime in on this. We have to be careful here, shifting armoe down 1 or gunnery up 1 will change all the curves. Perhaps spirited attack could make 5's and 6's count for 2 hits. Pretty much cruisers in Was, aside from LL torpedoes, have relatively no chance against a BB.
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| Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:27 pm |
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Yes, I don't really know. I am only wondering how successful a Pisa-class could be against a Pre-DN. My guess is that their guns should be enough to damage Pre-DNs all the time, because otherwise they wouldn't have been designed at all, as armor penetration tests happen long before designing a ship. Against DNs they would probably be useless though. Again, that's nothing more than a guess. I really have no idea and navweaps doesn't have the relevant armour penetration data.
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| Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:33 pm |
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One more point , a L Btty needs 5's and 6's to hit a cruiser size btty, the Turgut Reis would be hampered further py poor gunnery needing 6's to hit Averoff, and Extended Range would be out of the question, I think Averoff would still have the advantage.
PS Have to leave for work soon, I will catch up with you later, perhaps in the morning your time.
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| Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:34 pm |
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| lotharlutjens wrote: | | One more point , a L Btty needs 5's and 6's to hit a cruiser size btty, the Turgut Reis would be hampered further py poor gunnery needing 6's to hit Averoff, and Extended Range would be out of the question, I think Averoff would still have the advantage. |
It seems like they would be battling it out for ages and cause no damage to each other.
Anyway, see you tomorrow .
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| Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:39 pm |
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Yes, they would be slow to damage each other, but I still think Averoff would come out on top.
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| Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:43 pm |
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Illuminated Insanity
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| lotharlutjens wrote: | | Yes, they would be slow to damage each other, but I still think Averoff would come out on top. |
that depends how many sheep the Averoff crew have sacraficed to the dice gods... 
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| Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:46 am |
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How about goats, do they count as sheep ?
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| Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:40 am |
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bumping this up to make next.
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| Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:34 pm |
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The "8" armor may be too high for this former German predreadnought. If you check USS Oregon of Spanish American War fame you will find that it served in WW1. The side armor on this venerable preDN was 18" thick. This is because the earlier USA preDNs used a less effective armor as did the other ships build in the early 1890s.
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| Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:03 am |
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I am not against a 7 armor.
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| Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:27 pm |
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| SJG Gamer wrote: | | The "8" armor may be too high for this former German predreadnought. If you check USS Oregon of Spanish American War fame you will find that it served in WW1. The side armor on this venerable preDN was 18" thick. This is because the earlier USA preDNs used a less effective armor as did the other ships build in the early 1890s. |
bring on Yamato!
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| Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:28 am |
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