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Bean965

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Post subject: Flames of War: Who from the Forumini plays?  Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
After hosting a great RIF Tourney here in Silicon Valley, you'd think I'd be excited about AAM again, but instead it just reminded me how difficult it is to find local players and how much the game has declined from the glory days.

So I spent Wednesday night watching the FoW Boot Camp vids on YouTube

So, who here plays?
What do you think?
Did you play FoW first or AAM?
Do you recommend FoW for an AAM player who doesn't mind painting some minis?
Is there a stripped down, fast play version of the rules? What does the game play feel like?
Are there any stand-out strategies and tactics (Assault looks like it is deadly and would require excellent tactical vision to see, ahead of time, whether it is a good idea to initiate...)
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PostFri Sep 28, 2012 11:06 pm
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general Hoth

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i saw the game presented at many conventions but never managed to play it.

when well painted it looks awesome though Very Happy
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PostSun Sep 30, 2012 9:27 am
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Capt. Strange

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I play FoW on occasion, I have a large Das Reich Division army.  

Never played a single game of AAM.  

My current focus is on finishing of some larger scale stuff to play some Bolt Action from Warlord Games/Osprey.
PostSun Sep 30, 2012 9:29 pm
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WarHighlander

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Bean, if you're in Silicon Valley you're right smack in the middle of a good group of FOW guys. Game Kastle in Santa Clara has a good player base, and they probably have the largest stock of Flames of War on the West Coast.

I've been playing FOW since 2005, and never touched the land AAM. You should check out the website we have for NorCal Flames of War. We have a tournament circuit going that rotates between our four FLGS monthly.

http://flamesofwar.gamescape-north.com/norcalfow2012/

The new FOW Open Fire starter set is coming out at the end of the month. At a price of just $70 its a fantastic bargain for new players. Info:

http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=53&art_id=3438
PostTue Oct 02, 2012 1:57 am
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I have been playing FoW for about 6 years but DBM is still my favorite. DBM covers warfare from 2500 BC till about 1550 AD.
Rolling Eyes  Very Happy  Very Happy    Okie
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Bean965

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WarHighlander wrote:
Bean, if you're in Silicon Valley you're right smack in the middle of a good group of FOW guys. Game Kastle in Santa Clara has a good player base, and they probably have the largest stock of Flames of War on the West Coast.


WarHighlander

Thanks! It was poking around Game Kastle that opened me up to the idea.  I just bought a small Panzerkompanie on Ebay that came with the v3 mini rulebook and the Grey Wolf book. I'm going to give it a try - if I don't like it I'll use the minis for AAM! They're Plastic Army Company Pnz4s and Panthers and they are GORGEOUS models.
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PostMon Oct 08, 2012 5:49 pm
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WarHighlander

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Yeah the Plastic Soldier Company stuff is a good bargain, and look great if they're painted up nicely.

A guy I know converted a bunch of AAM into pretty nice looking FOW army a few years ago.

http://www.battlevault.com/Gallery/AAM_to_FOW/FOW_Conversion_01.htm
PostMon Oct 08, 2012 9:28 pm
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dmor903

 

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Bean965 wrote:
WarHighlander wrote:
Bean, if you're in Silicon Valley you're right smack in the middle of a good group of FOW guys. Game Kastle in Santa Clara has a good player base, and they probably have the largest stock of Flames of War on the West Coast.


WarHighlander

Thanks! It was poking around Game Kastle that opened me up to the idea.  I just bought a small Panzerkompanie on Ebay that came with the v3 mini rulebook and the Grey Wolf book. I'm going to give it a try - if I don't like it I'll use the minis for AAM! They're Plastic Army Company Pnz4s and Panthers and they are GORGEOUS models.


there's a group that meets at GK on Monday nights.  The FoW group meets on Wed. night in fremont.  If you would like to try out a small game, you, me and one other friend will attempt a game with you.  We can ask Entek to join as well.  Let me know your availability and how far you'd like to travel.  depending on the day, two of us might be able to join you in your area, or maybe D&J.  they've offered to set up some tables for us as well.  

p.s. the open fire set is at a pre-order price for $60 something at a few places.  I need to order my set...it does look pretty good.  

catch u later.

dano
PostTue Oct 09, 2012 3:09 am
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Bean965

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WarHighlander wrote:
Yeah the Plastic Soldier Company stuff is a good bargain, and look great if they're painted up nicely.

A guy I know converted a bunch of AAM into pretty nice looking FOW army a few years ago.

http://www.battlevault.com/Gallery/AAM_to_FOW/FOW_Conversion_01.htm


I remember that project!

I never bought into v2 AAM, so all of my stuff is v1 scale...
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Entek

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dmor903 wrote:
Bean965 wrote:
WarHighlander wrote:
Bean, if you're in Silicon Valley you're right smack in the middle of a good group of FOW guys. Game Kastle in Santa Clara has a good player base, and they probably have the largest stock of Flames of War on the West Coast.


WarHighlander

Thanks! It was poking around Game Kastle that opened me up to the idea.  I just bought a small Panzerkompanie on Ebay that came with the v3 mini rulebook and the Grey Wolf book. I'm going to give it a try - if I don't like it I'll use the minis for AAM! They're Plastic Army Company Pnz4s and Panthers and they are GORGEOUS models.


there's a group that meets at GK on Monday nights.  The FoW group meets on Wed. night in fremont.  If you would like to try out a small game, you, me and one other friend will attempt a game with you.  We can ask Entek to join as well.  Let me know your availability and how far you'd like to travel.  depending on the day, two of us might be able to join you in your area, or maybe D&J.  they've offered to set up some tables for us as well.  

p.s. the open fire set is at a pre-order price for $60 something at a few places.  I need to order my set...it does look pretty good.  

catch u later.

dano


I could be convinced to play very easily, but I'd have to use borrowed units and have some one there to explain the rules.
PostThu Oct 25, 2012 5:27 pm
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Upuaut

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I have played AAM for 5 years. 1.5 years ago I moved to an area where it is not played, but FoW is popular, so have played FoW since.
My advice is look harder for AAM players.
I consider AAM to be a superior game to FoW.
Neither is a good WW2 simulation, they are games. FoW looks more like a simulation than AAM due to the terrain and better (usually) painted playing pieces, but it is not.
At least it is easy to get into if you have V2 vehicles, usually just a lick of paint is needed.
I do like FoW, I have fun playing it, and maybe you would like it better than AAM, try it and see.

Some reasons why I prefer AAM:
I like playing on hexes, prevents arguments like; "I can see enough of your tank behind that hedge to shoot at it". "No you can't".

The game play in FoW seems to have less tactical choices and is less exciting to play. I don't know how to explain it better.

Many FoW players I have come across have came to the game from Warhammer and seem to have a certain mindset, hard to explain what I mean but sometimes it's like I am playing my 9 year old son but the guy is 20 something. Can be not a very enjoyable experience. My apologies to anyone who feels insulted, not all the players are like this. But I have not run across this with AAM, and very few of the AAM players I have played were ex-Warhammer.

FoW can be very expensive. In AAM you can field an army with maybe 1 or 2 tanks. In FoW you will need many, many more. PSC and using your V2 vehicles can keep this cost down. Even then there are new army list books coming out, several per year, and there is a gradual power creep, new books generally giving you stuff for less points to keep you buying. Newest thing is the new USA book gave them ludicrously strong tank destroyer lists, your Panzer IV's will get demolished by it.
PostSun Nov 25, 2012 10:26 pm
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SiDrasco

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Play FOW and getting into Bolt Action.

For flames of war, especially late war for balance games you need to work off the same year books, else the tech will exceed yours in the tank area.
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PostTue Dec 18, 2012 3:36 pm
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Arisaka99

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Just started playing FoW, I have to say I'm happy enough with it. I will say it has some weaknesses, though and itt's almost as far from realistic as AAM. Most importantly, there is a good group of players in Alabama. AAM never got the attention or community is deserved.
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Have both, but only play AAM anymore. FOW just got too expensive with the revised rules and constant army books. Plus, FOW just takes too long to play.
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PostTue Jan 15, 2013 5:29 pm
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Bean965

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Upuaut wrote:
Neither is a good WW2 simulation, they are games. FoW looks more like a simulation than AAM due to the terrain and better (usually) painted playing pieces, but it is not.


Having read the rules book cover to cover twice and played one learning game with dmor903, Entek and Kawolski I see what you mean. It is just as stylized as AAM with 10x as much unnecessary complexity.
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Arisaka99

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Well, some of it's nice, some of it is kind of dumb. I think tank combat is kind of cool, like how certain rounds have different chances of damaging the tank even if they penetrate, as well as the fact it isn't hex based. But a lot of it is just as generic as AAM.
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As a pre teen I dabbled with a few games, D&D, Battletech, TNG card game but by high school I played no games.
17 yrs later, being a huge WWII fan and searching to fill a void in my life I sought out WWII miniature games.
The very colorful diorama is what drew me to FOW/AAM.
The price of FOW scared me at first so I splurged on AAM before even finding another player.

I am just like the other posters in that I cant get a game of AAM locally.FOW seems to have the marketing fuel thing down pat with releases monthly. If youre not a painter like myself, you can sometimes find painted companies or platoons from time to time. There are also a lot of pajnters out there. I have found folks across the US who really enjoy painting. Some paint tanks for $5-$7 some $20-$30 per tank.

I found a painter who totally impressed me, so I had him paint up a US center piece. 155mm Artillery Battery box cost me $190.00 now I wont spend thag much again but I am very happy witb the paint. On another note, that same four piece unit in AAM pre painted would cost me $5-$10

I look forward to the day I can play a total war FOW yeah 3000 pts would be a lot of fun!
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PostSat Feb 16, 2013 1:30 pm
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NorthernRommel

 

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Upuaut wrote:
Many FoW players I have come across have came to the game from Warhammer and seem to have a certain mindset, hard to explain what I mean but sometimes it's like I am playing my 9 year old son but the guy is 20 something. Can be not a very enjoyable experience. My apologies to anyone who feels insulted, not all the players are like this. But I have not run across this with AAM, and very few of the AAM players I have played were ex-Warhammer.


I have noticed there are two groups, the Warhammer converts and the strong military painter crowd.  

The latter have a grasp of military "tactics" and surrounding "real" history a bit better, while the former group play against the rules just as they did in Warhammer.  The WH folks do not seem to place real importance on historical fact, but more on immersion into a state of reality where the game is more sport then wargame.

FOW is a thin representation of WW2 combat, and more of a piece pusher mechanic devoid of serious tactics based on manuever and cultural training of the different armed forces of the era. FOW just uses a formula that sells converts. It advertises and appeals to an escapist element mentioned earlier, while AAM used to have more collectors appeal.  When the collecting appeal wained, then so to did the support for AAM. As Hollywood figured out long ago, there is a bigger market for escapist entertainment then for historical knowledge.

As much as I do not like AAM either, I see the potential for it to be a better game that can more easily represent a true flavor of history if it was done with some actual research as to historical reality.  The mechanics are similiar to my own game, which better handles real world battles because it presents a slew of different and deeper tactical options. AAM was on the road to that but coughed and choked before it got far enough out of the gate.

Much of what AAM lacks in history, FOW seems to make up for with fluffy articles and army books.  The FOW makers use the Warhammer model of fleshing out the world in which the game is played to provide the better look and feel of the period presented. Warhammer works the same by presenting a nearly complete universe with a story line for its two principle games, even though the game itself is horrid to a realist. Unlike WH, FOW just bases their rules on real history, with some careful omissions that would interfere with interpretation of the rules based on actual history.  For example having all vehicles move a set amount, regardless of their real historical speeds.

Having played wargames for close to forty years now, I can see the potential in both systems to be better.  I hope they both can evolve.  AAM would only do so with a new rebirth which I see unlikely from Hasbro. FOW is still evolving, and I notice leaning more towards drawing in the hardcord miniatures realistist with some of their rules changes.

Realism requires details, but can be simulated with simple mechanics. I agree with the other posters that both games have a "generic" quality to them.  Hopefully that will work to draw people in, and let the fan base grow the potential of the game with plenty of good add ons.

Quote:
FoW can be very expensive. In AAM you can field an army with maybe 1 or 2 tanks. In FoW you will need many, many more. PSC and using your V2 vehicles can keep this cost down. Even then there are new army list books coming out, several per year, and there is a gradual power creep, new books generally giving you stuff for less points to keep you buying. Newest thing is the new USA book gave them ludicrously strong tank destroyer lists, your Panzer IV's will get demolished by it.


Again the GW model.  I have not seen these new books so I cannot comment on that.  But I do hope they do not ruin the game to sell it to the WH crowd. Then again GW did that with Warhammer when it first came out as a good fantasy universe. They saw more money in the "arrrrgh!" mindless violence lover universe, and milked it. Hence the demise of White Dwarf into a monthly publication of drivel.

Always sad to watch a potential winner devolve into something that sells its soul for more dollars.
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PostFri Mar 01, 2013 4:53 pm
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-dusts off the thread-

Just ordered the 3rd edition rulebook and some Finns. Also bought some older themed books and 3 CW Rifle companies at a local (relatively) gameshop for a big discount. One Rifle coy will be UK, one Canadian, and one will be the Irene Brigade. Adding trucks and equipment from third party sellers, not willing to spend a fortune if cheaper equivalents are available Wink
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choke choke... I play AAM and wish that WotC supported their game the way FoW is supported.  Part of the reason I ended up playing Bolt Action as my second game.

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