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USS Yorktown (CV-5)

Why only TBF-1 for lend-lease?

Why is only the TBF-1 version of the Avenger allowed for lend-lease? The original TBF version has a 1942 date on it and on the back of the card it indicates that it sank a lot of U-boats in the Atlantic. So, what makes it a version that the Royal Navy didn´t get?
Besides, the RN can lend-lease both Corsair versions, even the USMC one, so why not both TBF versions?
sublime828

Re: Why only TBF-1 for lend-lease?

USS Yorktown (CV-5) wrote:
Why is only the TBF-1 version of the Avenger allowed for lend-lease? The original TBF version has a 1942 date on it and on the back of the card it indicates that it sank a lot of U-boats in the Atlantic. So, what makes it a version that the Royal Navy didn´t get?
Besides, the RN can lend-lease both Corsair versions, even the USMC one, so why not both TBF versions?


The TBF-1 best represents the Avenger as it was used by the Royal Navy during WWII.........the Brits were using them more as aerial support for conveys and for sub hunting, not as the super BB killer that the TBF Avenger is in the game.  On another note, the TBF-1 was the actual version that was being given to the British in the lend-lease program (with about 800 of the 1000 or so avengers that they received during the war being of the TBF-1 variety).  Also, the lend-lease system was put in place to supplement the benefiting nations with a few aircraft to make them more balanced without giving them all of the US goodies available.  

The reason the RN has access to both versions of the corsair is because the British operated both versions of the corsair during the war (F4U-1A and F4U-1D).

Hope this helps.

sub
USS Yorktown (CV-5)

Thanks for the reply.

According to Wiki the Brits also received a bunch of the TBM version, so it´s not like they only received an early version of the plane.
The Club Pacific list is especially strange since that one is limited to 44/45 units only for the RN. We have a refitted Richelieu, Hellcats, Corsairs etc, but only an early export version of the Avenger with a worse torp score than the Swordfish!
SWO_Daddy

Its too bad we didn't get the TBF-1 first (with a 1942 year in service) and the TBF with a later one (43 or 44).  Would have solved a lot of angst over this plane.

I believe it would be appropriate to allow RN units in the clubhouse to operate the TBF from 1944 on, with the TBF-1 being available earlier.  When it comes to USN carrier aircraft, I think it was always RBs intent that they be used with the RN, based on the rule under "historical limits" specifically allowing their use.
sublime828

USS Yorktown (CV-5) wrote:
Thanks for the reply.

According to Wiki the Brits also received a bunch of the TBM version, so it´s not like they only received an early version of the plane.
The Club Pacific list is especially strange since that one is limited to 44/45 units only for the RN. We have a refitted Richelieu, Hellcats, Corsairs etc, but only an early export version of the Avenger with a worse torp score than the Swordfish!


TBF was the designation they were given when Grumman was actually manufacturing them. The avengers were built by another company after Grumman started manufacturing the hellcat exclusively.  When the other company ( I can't remember who started building them after Grumman ) took over the manufacturing of the TBF-1 it was given the designation TBM-1.

SWO is correct in saying all the issues could have been solved with a simpledate change. The TBF avenger most likely represents a TBM-3 avenger which had been improved a great deal over the earlier tbf-1 versions.  Improved armour, increased paylaod, and a better power plant all which is pretty obvious by the difference in stats.  The  problem is that when the avenger came out in Set 2, ND probably assumed there wouldn't be more sets so he made an avenger with late war stats and a 1942 date.  It's a pretty common happening in WAS to see this kind of thing......the west Virginia comes to.mind
firesdstny

SWO_Daddy wrote:
I believe it would be appropriate to allow RN units in the clubhouse to operate the TBF from 1944 on, with the TBF-1 being available earlier.  


This seems a simple enough solution to me.  By '44 the nations most negatively impacted by an early war TBF overkill generally have enough "good" units of their own to counter back.  

So LL rules would be '42-'45 TBF-1, '44-'45 TBF
SWO_Daddy

I'd really like to see that adopted as our rule in the clubhouse across the clubs.
Solomiranthius

Seems fair and sounds accurate. Smile
Brigman

I support this.  Give the Lend/Lease clubs the full TBF in '44 or later.
sublime828

Motion approved Very Happy

Seems a fair enough agreement, cheers on the rational, respectful discussion involving a "hot-topic" item here in the clubhouse.  It was nice to see an issue resolved without the name calling and animosity that seems to be running its course in other areas of the forum.  Good Job Guys!


Club presidents using US lend-lease air in your clubs' builds, please reflect the changes to indicate the following in your allowable unit lists:

The following units can be used according to the respective year restrictions in clubhouse play:

TBF-1 Avenger: 1942-1945
TBF Avenger: 1944-1945


sub out!
firesdstny

sublime828 wrote:
Seems a fair enough agreement, cheers on the rational, respectful discussion involving a "hot-topic" item here in the clubhouse.  It was nice to see an issue resolved without the name calling and animosity that seems to be running its course in other areas of the forum.  Good Job Guys!


[sarcasm]Oh ... my bad.  I forgot that's standard fare.  Almost like a rule we didn't follow[/sarcasm]  Wink
Brigman

Shit, did we forget to be disrespectful and reactive?  Damn.  I'll try to remember next time. Wink
Admiral Woodside

sublime828 wrote:
Motion approved Very Happy

<snip>

Club presidents using US lend-lease air in your clubs' builds, please reflect the changes to indicate the following in your allowable unit lists:

The following units can be used according to the respective year restrictions in clubhouse play:

TBF-1 Avenger: 1942-1945
TBF Avenger: 1944-1945


sub out!


Excellent! As the newest member of Club Royal Navy, I also give my affirmative vote of support for the above rules for US Lend Lease aircraft for the Brits. Ironically, this motion was agreed on unanimously back in Aug. 28, 2012, and seems to have propagated everywhere except to Club Royal Navy itself. Doh! Shocked I wonder if it would be possible for a Club House moderator, possibly one in CRN, to update page one of the CRN club thread under the Lend Lease section to include "TBF Avenger: 1944-1945"? While I am starting out just as an enthusiast member, if I can get my game components together, I would like to be able to use it in a game at some point. After all I have been studying W@S for years now. Embarassed  Not to worry, I have played zillions of wargames, land and naval, just not W@S yet...

And G'day Sublime 828. Hope everything is going well with you my fellow CRN mate! Smile I sent you a PM.

Cheerio!

Admiral Woodside
firesdstny

Hey woodside, Sublime has been MIA for awhile now (baby).  

I can make the update to the CRN home page.

CRN has a habit unfortunately of fading out.  After danaussie left, Anrack Fett didn't last too long, then Pilgrimjump took the reins.  He wasn't around too long either.  CRN has a lot of members, but it does not have anyone leading it at the moment.
Admiral Woodside

firesdstny wrote:
Hey woodside, Sublime has been MIA for awhile now (baby).  

I can make the update to the CRN home page.

CRN has a habit unfortunately of fading out.  After danaussie left, Anrack Fett didn't last too long, then Pilgrimjump took the reins.  He wasn't around too long either.  CRN has a lot of members, but it does not have anyone leading it at the moment.


That's awesome, mate. I see you have updated the CRN LL aircraft list already. Thanks! Very Happy

Thanks also for adding me to the members list for CRN as well. Arrow Exclamation

Cheers!

Admiral Woodside

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