When does the game end if you can't score enough points?

RTBS · When does the game end if you can't score enough points?

A friend of mine and I were playing "what if" with a couple of 100 point fleets tonight. We didn't actually have time to play, but had come up with a scenario we were trying to play out verbally to see what might happen. During the discussion a question came up.

At what point would the game end if you can't score the required number of points?

In a 100 point game, it's obvious that when a player gets to 150 points, they're the winner. But what if there's a situation where no more objectives can be taken? It that when the game is stopped? Is it when one players surface fleet is destroyed?

Here was our scenario:

100 point Axis Fleet
Musashi - 66
I-19 - 13
3x Bf109 - 21

vs

100 point Allied Fleet (99)
12 x PT Boat = 72
1 Baltimore = 18
1 Javelin = 9

Let's say that before ANY objectives are taken the Baltimore and Javelin are sunk by the Axis, along with let's say 2 PT Boats. However, the PT Boats gang up on the Musashi and it is sunk.

So, with no objectives yet claimed, and neither side able to claim any objectives in the future, the score is: Allies 116 (Musashi plus 50 points for destroying the surface fleet) and Axis 39. The Allies don't have 150 points, but are clearly in the lead. With no more ojbectives able to be claimed, is the game then over?

I argued that if I were the Axis, I'd want the opportunity to continue. With three 109s, I could probably eventually destroy the 10 remaining PT Boats. It would take a while. Perhaps a LONG while. But it's possible. It's also possible the 10 PT Boats would probably eventually sink my sub. Giving the Allies a maximum point total of 129. (Assuming no air losses on either side)

As the Axis, I could achieve a point total of 149 (72 for the 12 PTs, 18 for the Baltimore, 9 for the Javelin and 50 for wiping out HIS surface fleet).

This is all assuming I've done the math right of course.

So... at what point should we have stopped the game (had we played it vs. talking it)? We didn't find anything in the original rules or in a quick scan of the updated rules. We couldn't agree and so I thought I'd bring it up here and see what you guys have to say.

wilt57

Being that the PT boats cannot take objectives, in your instance, both fleets obtain the 50 points for eliminating the opposing surface fleet, unless I read this wrong. At that point, the one with the most points of remaining units in play wins.
If the PT boats still count as surface fleet, which I think they do, Allies still win. DAMN GAME IS RIGGED!! Smile

wilt57

jfkziegler

Even though PT boats can't take objectives, they are still part of the surface fleet, and the bonus points would not trigger while they were still on the board. At least that's the way I read it.

Aquarius

I'm pretty sure that PT Boats don't count as surface units for the 50 point bonus thingy.

swarbs

In the new rules clarifications they changed it so that the surface fleet does not include torpedo boats. Here's the paragraph.

How to Win
Points can be scored in a third way:
• If your enemy has no Ships remaining in play, you score bonus points equal to the value of an objective marker in the scenario you're playing. Ignore Torpedo Boats. They don't count as Ships remaining in play for this victory condition. Victory is determined only at the end of the turn, not at the instant when a player reaches 150 victory points.

As far as when to end the game officially. I'm thinking that it goes on until you can't damage each other, then I'd settle it with points, of course waiting for pt boats to kill a sub or fighters to strafe a dozen pt boats could be a bit less invigorating than just starting over.

RTBS

Thanks everyone. And thanks especially to Swarbs for pointing out the new rule. Like I said, we did a quick scan and missed it. That's a pretty important rule change to keep in mind if you're going to bring a bunch of torpedo boats.