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herky80

Wanted: New Club USN President

I am resigning as Club USN President.

I should have done this a long time ago, and apologize for not doing so before now. And I regret not being active lately with all the drama. I've tried to catch up, but things around here have gotten to the buzz kill stage.

I was very active in the first season, but basically have not been back since then. I recall a lengthy discussion back then about players wanted to play games with other nations. I think solo recently brought up that if you are restricted to one nation only, it gets boring. And it does and did. My compromise was to let club players play another nation, but They have to play their club fleet the majority of the time. This solution would have been the best. Instead we have multi-national clubs, which is why I bailed.

I'm not pointing the finger at anyone specific purposely, I don't care at this point who is being a wet towel for the fun that is trying to occur here.

I am choosing not to participate in the club league anymore because of multinational clubs and the lack of league game structure. In no other competition or sport are games or matches created in the manner they are here. It is random, arbitrary, unbalanced and unfair. Do you profit from playing a lot of games or only a few? Expectations and predictions are impossible. I just don't get it.

In season one I think I played about a dozen games, with the USN playing a total of a few more than that. But nobody would accept an offer to play the USN after 1942. This is a problem, which in the current rule setup prevents club USN from ever winning- players will simply not play tough games against supposedly 'cheese' builds. I learned a lot about playing US in '41 though...

I'm not sure which clubs are active or not, but looks like club USN is not, and I am going to guess some others are not either. IF all the clubs were at least somewhat active, the competitive league aspect were structured and balanced, then there would be a slight chance I might participate.

But at this point, I am resigning as Club USN president. I apologize for all participants in both Club USN and the clubhouse in general, specifically danaussie, for not doing this sooner and not participating in recent discussions.
danaussie

I dont think its necessary to bail just yet Herks, there are certainly some structural issues that need to be dealt with and soon. I have to agree that the League kind of crept up on us and was launched without alot of thought or discussion as to its direction. basically we just had alot of Clubs that formed really quickly and guys wanted to take the friendly taunting and banter to the next level by making a formal "Challenge" if everyone recalls that is the way it happend.

I also agree that the Multinationals are killing the League, now before everyone stats getting defensive, please let me explain myself. I agree that the League has largely become boring to play with a prolonged League Season restricting players to a single Nation Club.

I will be making my return back to the Clubhouse after a short absence and rethink of the entire thing during my vacation I have a few things I would like to propose to the Clubhose for a possible restructure of the Club League. This restructure should mean we will be able to keep the Multinationals we have and have a between Season affair where players may play for a Multi-national Club while still playing for their Nation Specific Club in the regular Club League format. In other words we would have a:

Club League of Champions Tournament (Nation Specific Club Only) This would be an anual event only and perhaps only run over a 3 month period only, this would constitute the Club League main event.

Club League Theatre of Operations Tournament (Multinational Clubs) This would be an "off season" Competition played by all members of even Nation Specific Clubs meaning that Members would then have the liberty to join 1 Nation Specific Club and one Multinational Club of their choice.

This seems to be the best compromise for the situation we currently find ourselves in, it is clear that the Multinationals cannot compete in a predominantly Nation Specific League without causing instability. It is this that needs to be discussed and a consensus reached, I believe the Multinationals do not need to disband but provide the competition options that they were raised for in a tournament that everyone seems to want. Both the options for Nation Specific Competition and Multinational Options both need to be in place to cater for the demand that is called for by Club members.

The other issue you mentioned herks is also a valid one that of the lack of formal structure in the competition and a scoring apparatus that is at the very least obscure to most players as to how it actually works. These issuesamongst other issues will need to be discussed by ND myself and of course the Club League Commissioner SrgPoofy. I believe we can create something that all members will be happy to participate in if given adequate time to work on this project.

Cheers for now, I return on the 21st of this month. Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy

Dan
sublime828

This is a great move for the clubhouse dan.  I'm behind this 100%.   Splitting the clubhouse will even the playing field for the competitions and it should give the single nation loyalists some peace of mind.  When we formed CFS, we brought up the the proposition of being members in more than 1 club and at that time it was decided that it should not be allowed because at that time all clubs participated together and logistically it would have been a nightmare to keep up with who is with which club and so on.  I believe having a multination competition and a single nation competition will increase activity in our clubhouse and will put an end to the single/multi - nation controversy. I am looking forward to this change and I think it will be a move that will save (and improve) our club house.  Great stuff buddy!

Herky --- Don't give up the ship.  Things are moving in the right direction.

sublime out
rplume

Get it fixed and I will return to wreck havoc.. at this point tho I'm simply not agreeable with the format in place.

I still want to be able to play any nation I want too, just like the WOTC rankings allow. Not too much to ask that I like diversity in my gaming as I did collect over 1000 pieces to be able to put any navy on the table, so I'm of the opinion I should be able to do that online as well. Smile

Just for the record, I will gladly lead the Kriegsmarine club in a nation specific league without the multi-nations.
Brigman

I am behind this 100%.  Looking forward to things being clarified and codified for better play and understanding. Smile
firesdstny

I back this proposal as well.  I think with some time this can be well hashed out to make two highly competitive leagues while still retaining the enthusiast attitude that started the clubs initially.

Enjoy the vacation Dan!
Bull Halsey

Agreed!
zangetsu24

4th agreed on this
Anrack Fett

As a single nation loyalist, I am really not for the splitting up of the club house, but I can see why it might be needed. †One thing I am wondering about, though, is whether or not single nation loyalists will be allowed to play for their single nation, me Club RN, during the open season of multi nationals. † Certainly it will be tougher, but I do not want to join any of the multi national clubs and want to continue playing for Club RN throughout the year, not just during the single nation 3 month series. †Can I still stay with and play for Club RN during the open season? †I think members should be given this option as though some might say it will be an uphill battle, I wish to stay with Club RN all year. Very Happy

Anrack Fett
herky80

Danaussie's proposal is the best we can do at this point in the road that the clubhouse has taken. However, my concerns both for the clubhouse in general and the "competitive" league remain. Multinational clubs make little sense to me, and seem to be diluting the club league participants. I am not criticizing anyone for liking them, advocating them, or whatever. Do what you want, there is just no appeal in it for me to play in such a league.

Danaussie should have prohibited theatre clubs from the beginning. They do not fit the mold that is a 'club'. They are nation-specific.

Can I start a submarine club? Or a German-American club for American players who are of German descent?  We could do a Pearl Harbor club with IJN and USN 1941 limits. Or a Plan Z Club where I can use custom cards. Or an Atlantic Club that includes everything except Japan, and we can squabble over whether a little Dutch destroyer should be allowed in fleet builds or not... Where does it end?
Rant is over, sorry about that.   Rolling Eyes

I'm not going to tell everyone how this thing should go, since it looks like I won't be participating most likely. Which is totally fine, doesn't mean a lot of other players can't have fun with it.  Smile
Anrack Fett

herky80 wrote:
  Danaussie's proposal is the best we can do at this point in the road that the clubhouse has taken. However, my concerns both for the clubhouse in general and the "competitive" league remain. Multinational clubs make little sense to me, and seem to be diluting the club league participants. I am not criticizing anyone for liking them, advocating them, or whatever. Do what you want, there is just no appeal in it for me to play in such a league.
  I'm not going to tell everyone how this thing should go, since it looks like I won't be participating most likely. Which is totally fine, doesn't mean a lot of other players can't have fun with it. †Smile
I totally agree with this. I am guess are new system is the best we can do, but I will be sticking with my nation specific club, Club RN.  I don't mind playing vs. the multi nationals, but I don't want to be part of one of their clubs.  I still want to know if I will be able to play in Club RN for the entire year round.  Smile
Crazy Cat

rplume wrote:
Get it fixed and I will return to wreck havoc.. at this point tho I'm simply not agreeable with the format in place.

I still want to be able to play any nation I want too, just like the WOTC rankings allow. Not too much to ask that I like diversity in my gaming as I did collect over 1000 pieces to be able to put any navy on the table, so I'm of the opinion I should be able to do that online as well. Smile

Just for the record, I will gladly lead the Kriegsmarine club in a nation specific league without the multi-nations.


And when that happens Club KM will gladly welcome their leader back Exclamation  I can't wait to get this whole league thing all sorted out.
P71

I think a League split with people able to be in a single-nation (with a League competition) and a multi-national (with their own competition) will be great!

Shouldn't we do this in a new thread so people know what's going on and have a chance to make suggestions?
Vergilius

I think Herky makes many important contributions.  Let's not get too hung up on the multinational versus national clubs, as that seems to have a solution that the posters so far find satifactory.  Some people may be very set on national clubs, but some of us never got involved in the beginning because we were turned off on the whole concept, while the emergence of multinational clubs has been a breath of fresh air that has inspired new interest from previously uninterested foruminians.  From the sounds of it, there is room for all of us somewhere.

The competitive aspect needs serious work, and Herky's analysis is insightful.  I think he made his second post so that those criticisms might not get lost in the scuffle about the solution to national/multinational clubs.

I'll be curious to see what emerges.
Crazy Cat

I strongly suggest locking this thread.  No disrespect to, Herky80, but I know how things go and this needs to stop now in favor of an organized discussion about the future.  That discussion is tabled til, Dan, gets back as far as I am concerned Exclamation  Confused   The opportunity to speak on this needs to happen when all interested parties are present.  Speculate if you want but I warn it may due unnecessary damage to the clubhouse and a real waste of time unless it's done in a specific fashion agreeable to all.  I believe there will be plenty of time to respectfully debate.  Actually I would count on it Exclamation
angryhydralisk

Iím going to lock this until all hands are on deck
As stated before no disrespect to anyone here especially Herky80

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