| Archive for Axis & Allies ForuMINI Specialised in the World War II Axis & Allies Miniatures and War At Sea Games |
| The_lucky_Y |
Updated game rules for the campaign grandest fleetSpecial thanks to Eric Marino who invented this variantanother applause to my gaming group that spends dozen of hours test gaming to fit out the rules and fill the gaps etc etc. actual updated rules on one place Initial deployment points: 50 - use up as many points as you can - you can spend initial points for upgrades too - no vessel with extended Range is allowed in the setup - no Carrier is allowed in the setup - use both sets including forum-ini custom cards for missing units - be sure that you include auxiliary vessels because you need them - UK forces use USN auxiliary - The Scenario starts on January 1941(Atlantic/med battles 1940) and all units with 1941(1940) year and older are allowed to deploy. - after one normal turn rules are the same as in normal WAS games the time shifts to next odd month(in this game round 2 are in march 1941) Stacking limits: -in every sector you can place surface vessels for max 6 point total /past 1943 9 point total - Battleships: 4 points - Cruisers/Carriers with capacity above one plane : 3 points - Destroyers/Carriers with capacity of one plane : 2 points - Auxillary and Vessels with shallow draft: 1 point * in every sector you can place one submarine/past 1943 two subs per sector * in every sector you can place aircraft for max 6 point total per side(axis or allies) - pre 1943 aircraft uses up one point - post 1942 air units use 1,5 points - large sub pen allows to place an extra submarine in its sector Determine Income: - each city had its own income, no transfer allowed - each hull point minus actual damage points remaining is the income in construction points Upgrade cities, Repair cities and build new units : - each city can repair either one hull damage or build one point hull upgrade - repairing one hull damage in a city cost 5 points - upgrades w/o hull upgrade are unlimited to build - build new units you must have the the correct upgrade that gives access to build one (no subs w/o sub bunker for e.g.) - unlimited in build up queues except stacking limits - land airfields and bases have their own stacking limit that decreases the normal limits for basing aircrafts build a ship: * first you must have the correct amount of points available, you can include the income from the current turn also. * then you must have the access to build the unit(battleships can only laid down in a shipyard) * If you lose a capital vessel you cannot rebuild it except there are sister ships in class(for e.g. if Missouri goes down, USN player can only built the Iowa, Wisconsin or New Jersey now) *All units start in the Island sector in that they were initially laid down, repaired or purchased * if you lay down a ship, place as many rearming counters next to that ship as that ships hull points have(a Iowa has 6 hull point so you place 6 rearming counters next to that Iowa) * every following turn you remove as much rearming counters as your upgrade allow. * note that you can also remove rearming counters in the same turn where you purchase the unit if no other units are currently under construction in the same place * construction queue finish older contracts in favor of new ones in case of decisions * a dock allow to remove one rearming counter from one ship. * a shipyard allow to remove two rearming counters from one ship or one rearming counter from two different ships. Initiative, movement and combat follows the normal WAS rules but this scenario have a couple of new rules listed below exceptions during sea movement - ships w/o the SA shallow draft can enter island squares that contains one city of the same faction with the upgrade dock or shipyard. movement stops after entering one island sector. - submarines can enter if the island have the upgrade sub bunker aircraft do have range, to keep it simple: -Aircraft with loiter SA get 24 square range -Patrol bomber get 22 square range -Patrol torpedo bomber get 20 square range -Fighters get 18 square range -other airborne Bomb attacks get 14 square range -other airborne Torpedo attacks get 12 square range - keep track on which place they come back in air return phase - no kamikaze move allowed except of the kamikaze units odd things on air attacks fighters can be assigned to one of following dutys: * strafing with the normal penalties * escort the own bombers/torpedo bombers * escort the own fighters(works equal as escorting bombers) * fight against enemy aircrafts * if two fighters from one side on escort in the same sector they escort each other too how to seize an neutral island - Auxiliary can made a torpedo style attack at range 1 with dice equal to its current cost against neutral cities , if you hit you occupy the neutral city and get an normal city w/o any upgrades and damage. - remove the successful attacker from the game and add its total cost towards the initial stock of that island Odd things for surface attacking: - all units in a city w/o rearming markers can make normal attacks and can be attacked as they are in open seas - attacking an island you can chose which target you want to attack (defender may use scramble for defense) - torpedo attacks vs an island or Ships in an island sector are prohibited and vice versa except airborne torpedo attacks - normal hits on cities give them a hull damage marker - vital hits on cities remove one upgrade of your(attacker) choice - if upgrades are removed that give access to build units remove all units that are affected by this and that have more than one rearming marker remaining - if the last upgrade ever is removed from the city and hull damage is equal to remaining hull points remove the entire city from the game including the left over money. - You can not replace removed cities with anything scramble for defense: *If a enemy ship approaches towards one of your island into possible range of attack you may declare scramble for defense after the sea movement step for all units that are currently under construction or repair on that island. *remove the rearming counters from ships under construction or repair and replace each rearming marker with a 1 damage counter. *all units that scramble for defense get a -1 penalty for gunnery attacks this penalties stack with other penalties. *submarines cannot scramble for defense *units that scramble for defense cannot move under any circumstances. *units that scramble for defense does not benefit from repairs or construction in following turns until you declare further repairs and construction as stated in the rules. repair a ship: *move the damaged/crippled ship into the matching yard/dock. *to announce a repair action place now one rearming(repair) counter next to the ship that undergo repairs. *at the beginning of the following turns you remove as much damage counters as the dock/shipyard allows, if the last damage is removed then remove the rearm(repair) counter too, but the ship cannot leave the port this turn(simulate the outfitting for the next sea turns) *Each damage that would be removed cost 5 points from the stock,if the island cannot afford the cost of further repairs the repair is delayed until there is enough stock or repairs are canceled. *a shipyard allows repairing two hull points for paying only 5 points ================================================== Status/upgrade sheet starting city comes up with airbase and shipyard already build. basis neutral City Attacks |0|1|2|3| [ 3] Armor [ 6] Vital Armor [ 5] Hull Points This unit builds upgrades at a rate of one hull point per turn. Upgrades that not increase hull points are unlimited to build in one turn. This unit earns one point for each hull point it has minus actual hull damage markers This unit may repair itself for one hull point at a cost of 5 points once per turn this can only be destroyed if there no hull points and no upgrades remaining. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dock cost 5pts upgrade [--] Armor [--] Vital Armor [+1] Hull Points This unit builds Ships at a rate of one hull point per turn. give access to build cruisers,destroyers and smaller can only repair cruisers, destroyers and smaller ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Shipyard cost 15pts upgrade [--] Armor [--] Vital Armor [+2] Hull Points This unit builds Ships at a rate of two hull points per turn. give access to build battleships can repair all ships This unit must replace the dock If this unit is destroyed replace it with the Dock. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Submarine bunker cost 15pts upgrade [--] Armor [--] Vital Armor [+1] Hull Points This unit builds submarines at a rate of one hull point per turn. gives access to build and repair subs -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Large Sub pen cost 20pts upgrade [--] Armor [--] Vital Armor [+1] Hull Points This unit builds submarines at a rate of two hull point per turn and allow to stack an additional sub in the sub pen´s own square This unit replace the Submarine bunker. If this unit is destroyed replace it with a submarine bunker ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Airstrip cost 10pts upgrade [--] Armor [--] Vital Armor [+1] Hull Points This unit builds Aircraft at a rate of one hull point per turn. This unit may base one carrier based aircraft cannot base patrol bombers w/o loiter SA gives access to build patrol bombers with the SA loiter and aircraft that can be based on carriers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Airbase cost 15pts upgrade [--] Armor [--] Vital Armor [+2] Hull Points This unit can build two hull points at the same turn This unit may base two aircraft of any type gives access to build aircrafts of any type this unit must replace the airstrip ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AA guns cost 10 pts Upgrade Attacks |0|1|2|3| Anti-Air |6|-|-|-| [--] Armor [+1] Vital Armor [--] Hull Points This unit allows your city to make one AA attack ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Heavvy AA guns cost 15 pts upgrade Attacks |0|1|2|3| Anti-Air |7|-|-|-| Main |-|-|-|-| 2nd |-|-|-|-| tertiary |-|-|-|-| This unit allows your city to make an attack against two aircraft in its hex this upgrade must replace the AA guns If this unit is destroyed replace it with the AA guns ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Early Warning System cost 20pts upgrade Attacks |0|1|2|3| Anti-Air |8|7|-|-| This unit allows your city to make an attack against three aircraft in its AA attacking range this upgrade must replace the heavy AA guns If this unit is destroyed replace it with the heavy AA guns ---------------------------------------------------------------------- coastal torpedo launcer cost 12 pts upgrade attack | 0| 1| 2| 3| Torpedos |2|2|1|0| [--] Armor [+1] Vital Armor [--] Hull Points This unit can fire in each direction there already build coastal guns can fire Only one launcher per Island is allowed. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- poor coastal defense cost 10pts upgrade Attack |0|1|2|3| Main |5|5|4|-| 2nd |-|-|-|-| Tertiary |-|-|-|-| [+1] Armor [+1] Vital Armor [--] Hull Points ---------------------------------------------------------------------- good coastal defense cost 15pts upgrade Attacks |0|1|2|3| Anti-Air |2|-|-|-| Main |8|8|7|6| 2nd |5|5|4|-| Tertiary |-|-|-|-| [+2] Armor [+2] Vital Armor [--] Hull Points this unit must replace the poor coastal defense If this unit is destroyed replace it with the poor coastal defense ---------------------------------------------------------------------- great coastal defense cost 20pts upgrade attack | 0| 1| 2| 3| Main |12|12|11|10| 2nd | 8| 8| 7| 6| Tertiary | 5| 5| 4|--| [+3] Armor [+3] Vital Armor [--] Hull Points If this upgrade is in a undamaged city it can make a range 4 main gun attack using its range 3 attack value this unit must replace the good coastal defense If this unit is destroyed replace it with the good coastal defense *coastal defense have facing drawn from the center of the city square through the squares that have straight facing towards the location of the gun. *You can place up guns to six different locations on each island, remember that only the stats of the best upgrade counts towards the city stats feel free to ask me anything. |
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| The_lucky_Y |
don´t forget! :
fighters can be assigned to one of following dutys: strafing with the normal penalties escort the own bombers/torpedo bombers escort the own fighters(works equal as escorting bombers) fight against enemy aircrafts if two fighters from one side on escort in the same sector they escort each other too |
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| babs |
Looks very interesting.
I myself had similar ideas. I would have joined If I wouldn't go on holidays next week. Babs out! |
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| Aquarius |
I moved this per Lucky_Y's request. | ||||
| The_lucky_Y |
I´ll need three participants
we are online so we can play on a very large map There would be 26 columns and 26 rows for a real game you need only double standard map with open sea side . short introduction: you have 50 point for start setup, no BB allowed in setup and you must use up as many points as you can. you can choose between USN, IJN, Germany+Italy and UK+UK minors units from both sets, missing units can be chosen from the Forum-Ini card pile(for e.g the IJN player would float an Kaga class carrier then he could use that statcard from forumini, stock cards override forumini cards. target : most destroyed points at 9/45 thats the time the war ends. to gain more points to build more fleet you must occupy wild islands with neutral citys on it. You can only occupy them with auxilliary units, so your fleet should contain a average number of auxilliary ships. To occupy one neutral city the auxilliary ship rolls as many dice as its current cost and hits only on 6(similar to torp rolls) each city produce an amount of construction points as that city already had. to increase that amount you can upgrade the island with docks, Airbases and that sort of thing that even enables to deploy ships faster and different types. each island had its own income and you must come out with that the island produce and what you save from previous rounds on the same island, you have not one pay desk but one on every island that belongs to you. -islands income points are equal to their actual hull amount per round -hull damage reduce total income by one per damage point -You can repair one hull point or build hull upgrades(Docks/shipyards/airfields/airbase/submarine bunker) per turn ..... The Game starts on January 1941 and all units with 1941 print on are allowed to deploy. after one normal turn rules are the same as in normal WAS games the time shifts to next odd month(in this game round 2 are in march 1941) OK game will start at august 1st. i´ll try to field this game with 3 opponents including myself. if players set everybody rolls 3 dice to determine who choose his faktion first,each faction can only chosen once. for timeouts or vacation delays I ` move that players fleet as good as i can. |
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| The_lucky_Y |
First special thanks to Eric Marino who invented this game variant :
Status/upgrade sheet starting city comes up with airbase and shipyard already build. basis neutral City Attacks |0|1|2|3| [ 3] Armor [ 6] Vital Armor [ 5] Hull Points This unit builds upgrades at a rate of one hull point per turn. Upgrades that not increase hull points are unlimited to build in one turn. This unit earns one point for each hull point it has minus actual hull damage markers This unit may repair itself for one hull point at a cost of 5 points once per turn this can only be destroyed if there no hull points and no upgrades remaining. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dock cost 5pts upgrade [--] Armor [--] Vital Armor [+1] Hull Points This unit builds Ships at a rate of one hull point per turn. give access to build cruisers,destroyers and smaller can only repair cruisers, destroyers and smaller ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Shipyard cost 15pts upgrade [--] Armor [--] Vital Armor [+2] Hull Points This unit builds Ships at a rate of two hull points per turn. give access to build battleships can repair all ships This unit must replace the dock If this unit is destroyed replace it with the Dock. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Submarine bunker cost 15pts upgrade [--] Armor [--] Vital Armor [+1] Hull Points This unit builds submarines at a rate of one hull point per turn. gives access to build and repair subs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Airstrip cost 10pts upgrade [--] Armor [--] Vital Armor [+1] Hull Points This unit builds Aircraft at a rate of one hull point per turn. This unit may base one carrier based aircraft cannot base patrol bombers w/o loiter SA gives access to build patrol bombers with the SA loiter and aircraft that can be based on carriers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Airbase cost 15pts upgrade [--] Armor [--] Vital Armor [+2] Hull Points This unit can build two hull points at the same turn This unit may base two aircraft of any type gives access to build patrol bomber w/o the SA loiter this unit must replace the airstrip ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AA guns cost 10 pts Upgrade Attacks |0|1|2|3| Anti-Air |6|-|-|-| [--] Armor [+1] Vital Armor [--] Hull Points This unit allows your city to make one AA attack ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Heavvy AA guns cost 15 pts upgrade Attacks |0|1|2|3| Anti-Air |7|-|-|-| Main |-|-|-|-| 2nd |-|-|-|-| tertiary |-|-|-|-| This unit allows your city to make an attack against two aircraft in its hex this upgrade must replace the AA guns If this unit is destroyed replace it with the AA guns ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Early Warning System cost 20pts upgrade Attacks |0|1|2|3| Anti-Air |8|7|-|-| This unit allows your city to make an attack against three aircraft in its AA attacking range this upgrade must replace the heavy AA guns If this unit is destroyed replace it with the heavy AA guns ---------------------------------------------------------------------- poor coastal defense cost 10pts upgrade Attack |0|1|2|3| Main |5|5|4|-| 2nd |-|-|-|-| Tertiary |-|-|-|-| [+1] Armor [+1] Vital Armor [--] Hull Points ---------------------------------------------------------------------- good coastal defense cost 15pts upgrade Attacks |0|1|2|3| Anti-Air |2|-|-|-| Main |8|8|7|6| 2nd |5|5|4|-| Tertiary |-|-|-|-| [+2] Armor [+2] Vital Armor [--] Hull Points this unit must replace the poor coastal defense If this unit is destroyed replace it with the poor coastal defense ---------------------------------------------------------------------- great coastal defense cost 20pts upgrade attack | 0| 1| 2| 3| Main |12|12|11|10| 2nd | 8| 8| 7| 6| Tertiary | 5| 5| 4|--| [+3] Armor [+3] Vital Armor [--] Hull Points If this upgrade is in a undamaged city it can make a range 4 main gun attack using its range 3 attack value this unit must replace the good coastal defense If this unit is destroyed replace it with the good coastal defense *coastal defense have facing drawn from the center of the city square through the squares that have straight facing towards the location of the gun. *You can place up guns to six different locations on each island, remember that only the stats of the best upgrade counts towards the city stats |
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| The_lucky_Y |
here some pics from our shop playing table during one match .
notice that the Islands and the table are made by the shop owner , I made only the little 3D chits that are placed around the islands and on the islands. here the IJN Player(me) with his starting setup: 
By The_Lucky_Y 1x Shokaku+ 1 val and 5 Kinai Marus my Opponent(USN)starts with following: 
By The_Lucky_Y 1x Hornet 6x Jeremiah o´brien and one catalina. 3 turns later: 
By The_Lucky_Y main island just build up an submarine bunker and produce 2 Zekes too first occupied island for the IJN: 
By The_Lucky_Y USN did not sleep and do this: 
By The_Lucky_Y |
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| The_lucky_Y |
build another Carrirer:
By The_Lucky_Y USN decides to pull some shipborne AA 
By The_Lucky_Y first confrontation: 
By The_Lucky_Y my counterstrike: 
By The_Lucky_Y some turns later: USN lay down the first battleship 
By The_Lucky_Y because IJN do the same: 
By The_Lucky_Y trying to stop the USN to get another island.... 
By The_Lucky_Y but the next wave is currently on the way: 
By The_Lucky_Y some more action in that turn are running: 
By The_Lucky_Y |
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| Mad Ghost/0331 |
hey, I took a shot at a card for this thing. I will do the others once I am sure I am hitting the mark on it.
let me know what needs changed. 
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| The_lucky_Y |
the basic neutral city had no gunnery value, for getting any gunnery value you must upgrade it with coastal defense or Anti air guns. either there are no aircraft basement slots on any normal neutral city. only the starting city of an player had already build on shipyard and airbase, so the starting city had following armor stats: 3 armor / 6 vital / 9 hull. the starting city also had no gunnery value. no other changes are needed if your card should display the starting city then you must only change the hull points from 5 towards 9 hull points and the city itself cost no points you occupy them with auxilliarys or strt with them. nice work on your card. hope you have fun playing with this szenario campaign. |
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| Mad Ghost/0331 |
how about these?
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| The_lucky_Y |
starting city is well done
neutral city had only one little mistake the hull stats only 5 instead of your 6. nice cards, we use only a sheet of paper (and another sheet with the rules and stats printet on as like the settlers of catan building cost cards) to keep track of the citys because I made some 3d pieces of clay that represents the upgrades so everybody can see with one view what each island had build on, see the pictures above in the thread show some of them. |
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| UNC_Samurai |
Reading the two sets of rules (this set and the original set), I am still confused about the way income and building/repairing ships works. If a city's income equal to it's overall hit points, and the city upgrades have a specific rate of construction, then won't a city have points left over?
Example: A city has 8 hull points and a Shipyard. The income is 8 per turn, but it can only build two hull points per turn. Won't the excess income accumulate over time? |
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| Aquarius |
Yes, that's the idea.
Otherwise, how would you save up for Battleships? |
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| The_lucky_Y |
determining the income of one city: count the total amount of hull points including any upgrades that upgrade hull points(only following upgrades count towards the hull points:a dock +1 hull,a shipyard that replaces the dock + 2 hull, a submarine bunker +1 hull, airfield +1 hull and the airbase that replaces the airfield +2 hull)then substract any remaining damagae counters and you have the final income for this turn. example island city with airbase upgrade and dock upgrade would earn 8 point total(5 from base city +2 from airbase and +1 from the dock) if you wish to save more points for finally lay down an battleship for e.g. Kongo you can save the total income of that island as long as you reach the needed points, a island with 10 point income(shipyard,airbase and sub pen) must save 4 rounds to lay down the Kongo and have a rest of 5 points your example:
your city cannot have 8 hull points because the only upgrade that boost your hull points is the shipyard there. correct calculation: base city= 5 hull point= 5 coins income/round shipyard=+ 2 hull points = +2 coins income /round summary: 7 hull points = 7 coins income /round every income that not used up in the current turn can be saved to the following turns. the mistake that you made: the shipyard REPLACES the dock , if you build a shipyard you must first remove the existing dock. Upgrades general: only the upgrades that boosts the hull points are limited, you can build only one of those upgrades each turn, if the upgrades boost more than one hull point you gain the difference from the previous upgrade that removed for the current upgrade. upgrades that boost other values than Hull points are unlimited to build. hope that answers your questions. |
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| UNC_Samurai |
I figured out that city income and unit hull point construction were two separate steps. Makes a lot more sense now. | ||||
| The_lucky_Y |
struck:
replace with
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| The_lucky_Y |
change on following Upgrades.
Airstrip cost 10pts upgrade [--] Armor [--] Vital Armor [+1] Hull Points This unit builds Aircraft at a rate of one hull point per turn. This unit may base three carrier aircraft new:may base one carriar based aircraft cannot base patrol bombers w/o loiter SA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Airbase cost 15pts upgrade [--] Armor [--] Vital Armor [+2] Hull Points This unit can build two hull points at the same turn This unit may base five aircraft of any type new: may base two aircraft of any type this unit must replace the airstrip make sure that you must build carriers to boost up a numerous airforce. |
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| The_lucky_Y |
on the watchlist:
Stacking limits - you can deploy 6 stacking points in each layer per square - the layers are air/ surface /submerged - battleships = 4 stacking points - cruisers/carriers w more than one aircraft basement = 3 stacking points - destroyers/carriers w basing cap of one aircraft = 2 stacking points - Aux vessels and vessels with shallow draft SA 1 stacking point - Subs = 4 stacking points - aircraft with single print on attack value or double attack value = 1 stacking point,count not SA´s that give another attack value (for e.g : alternate payload) all other aircraft get 1,5 stacking points. - late war( first month in 1944) stacking increases towards 9 points. |
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| The_lucky_Y |
NEW : better stacking limit wording
* in every sector you can place surface vessels for max 6 point total /past 1943 9 point total - Battleships: 4 points - Cruisers/Carrieres with capacity above one plane : 3 points - Destroyers/Carriers with capacity of one plane : 2 points - Auxillary and Vessels with shallow draft: 1 point * in every sector you can place one submarine/past 1943 two subs per sector * in every sector you can place aircraft for max 6 point total per side(axis or allies) - pre 1943 aircraft uses up one point - post 1943 air units use 1,5 points |
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| The_lucky_Y |
bumpzilla
if you want to save playing time we have the idea to forbid every air unit, makes a lot of fun slugging it out with cruisers and tons of destroyers that chase the subs. |
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| The_lucky_Y |
all current updates and rules are now in the first post of this thread | ||||
| The_lucky_Y |
currently under playtesting but seems to be included soon:
upgrade: large sub pen cost 20 gives another hull point to the island can build two hull points per turn on subs and allow to place an additional sub in its square,needs a normal sub pen for upgrade and if destroyed downgrade to a normal sub pen 2. upgrade: coastal torpedo launcher cost 15 gives the island a torpedo attack value as following: 2/2/1 but no armor/hull increase |
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| The_lucky_Y |
here is a blank map for online games:
By The_Lucky_Y |
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| The_lucky_Y |
minor rules upgrade in the starting post
sub pen and torpedo launcher are included |
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| Greyh Seer |
I have never played this, but I might be interested in an online game with this scenario... | ||||
| The_lucky_Y |
rearrange the order of the rules as they are used during the game play following the official rules order. | ||||
| The_lucky_Y |
aircraft do have range, to keep it simple:
-Aircraft with loiter SA get 24 square range -Patrol bomber get 22 square range -Patrol torpedo bomber get 20 square range -Fighters get 18 square range -other airborne Bomb attacks get 14 square range -other airborne Torpedo attacks get 12 square range we need a fixing at the range of the patrol bombers (especially Sparviero, B25, Kondor) I suggest 14 square range for patrols bombers with torps and 16 square range for normal patrol bombers that have no torp value Lend and lease stuff UK shall use Wildcats as Martlets at the second half of 1941 need date/year for PBY Catalina in service of the RN/RAF |
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| Greyh Seer |
What was the actual operational range of these planes as compared to dive bombers etc? | ||||
| The_lucky_Y |
Sparviero had almost 1990 km range with two torpedo payload
B 25 had 2170 km FW 200 Condor had 3550 km HalifaxMK III 3000 km Betty 5040 km average=3150 PBY catalina 4050 km HK8 Emily 4800 km average=4425 Zeke A6M2 1143 km Sea Hurricane 1207 km F4F Wildcat 1240 km Bf 109(E) 800 km Hellcat 1740 km Folgore 765 km average=1150 D3A Val 1550 km D4Y2 Judy 1465 km SBD Dauntless 1760 km Ju 87 820 km average=1398 Kate 1990 km Avenger 1625 km Swordfish 874 km Devastator 700 km average=1297.25 Beaufighter 2350km Barracuda 1851km source Bechtermünz |