Archive for Axis & Allies ForuMINI Specialised in the World War II Axis & Allies Miniatures and War At Sea Games          Axis & Allies ForuMINI Forum Index -> WAS Scenarios & Houserules chesty Troop Related Stuff Edit... These rule proposals have been refined or replaced by a much better set that I highly recommend... http://aaminis.myfastforum.org/about8118.html __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ As I snoop through the Ship histories, looking for ideas for SA's, I keep running into Ships (mostly Destroyers) that carried troops and supported landings with Naval Gunfire. As I look for ways to make SA's for those efforts, I don't see many hooks to hang SA's from, other than the Objectives. I'm thinking that putting Troop counters of some kind on Objectives would contest any attempts by your opponent to seize those Objectives. Your opponent would have to land a superior number of Troop counters to neutralize or overcome your defenders. Let's say 2 to 1 to neutralize, meaning normal Sea Control applies, and 3 to 1 to overcome, meaning his Troops then control the Objective. I'm sure we could work something out that allows a player without Troops aboard Ships to eventually blast Troops out with Air attacks or Naval Gunfire, but that might involve assigning a Vital Armor score to Troop counters. Does all that sound too complicated? I know we've got the Gunston Hall and an Axis equivalent on the way, so I'm trying to be patient.  It's just that there are so many Destroyers that would get useful SA's out of the deal. I'm anxious.   Comments, suggestions, predictions... ? LuckyE77 Re: Troops Aboard Ships chesty wrote: As I snoop through the Ship histories, looking for ideas for SA's, I keep running into Ships (mostly Destroyers) that carried troops and supported landings with Naval Gunfire. As I look for ways to make SA's for those efforts, I don't see many hooks to hang SA's from, other than the Objectives. I'm thinking that putting Troop counters of some kind on Objectives would contest any attempts by your opponent to seize those Objectives. Your opponent would have to land a superior number of Troop counters to neutralize or overcome your defenders. Let's say 2 to 1 to neutralize, meaning normal Sea Control applies, and 3 to 1 to overcome, meaning his Troops then control the Objective. I'm sure we could work something out that allows a player without Troops aboard Ships to eventually blast Troops out with Air attacks or Naval Gunfire, but that might involve assigning a Vital Armor score to Troop counters. Does all that sound too complicated? I know we've got the Gunston Hall and an Axis equivalent on the way, so I'm trying to be patient.  It's just that there are so many Destroyers that would get useful SA's out of the deal. I'm anxious.   Comments, suggestions, predictions... ? Something like Amphibious assault. Once per game if this unit is in the same sector as your oppenets airfeild, roll a die, on a 6 your oppenet cant use it but you can. jfkziegler Re: Troops Aboard Ships chesty wrote: As I snoop through the Ship histories, looking for ideas for SA's, I keep running into Ships (mostly Destroyers) that carried troops and supported landings with Naval Gunfire. As I look for ways to make SA's for those efforts, I don't see many hooks to hang SA's from, other than the Objectives. I'm thinking that putting Troop counters of some kind on Objectives would contest any attempts by your opponent to seize those Objectives. Your opponent would have to land a superior number of Troop counters to neutralize or overcome your defenders. Let's say 2 to 1 to neutralize, meaning normal Sea Control applies, and 3 to 1 to overcome, meaning his Troops then control the Objective. I'm sure we could work something out that allows a player without Troops aboard Ships to eventually blast Troops out with Air attacks or Naval Gunfire, but that might involve assigning a Vital Armor score to Troop counters. Does all that sound too complicated? I know we've got the Gunston Hall and an Axis equivalent on the way, so I'm trying to be patient.  It's just that there are so many Destroyers that would get useful SA's out of the deal. I'm anxious.   Comments, suggestions, predictions... ? What if instead of having them affect objectives, you allowed them to seize an island and use an airfield, letting you launch land-based planes every turn? swarbs I think this could make a more interesting scenario, it seems a bit awkward trying to orchestrate troop landings on the kind of time scales this game is supposed to deal with. A scenario where troop counters could be secretly added to a number of destroyers that have to exit the other side of the map could be interesting. weedsrock2 We ran into this limitation when doing the Fubuki cards. I couldn't come up with anything acceptable. I will be very curious to see what R.B. does with the Gunston Hall and the Axis equivalent. Snippersly There was a scenario written with those exact outlines... I think it was on the Wizards of the Cash forum...I will try to dig up a link.   It was a lot of fun to play BTW. Snippersly Found it: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1168217 And Here too: http://aaminis.myfastforum.org/sutra133799.php#133799 chesty Snippersly wrote: Found it: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1168217 Hey, Snippersly! Thanks for searching that out!   I remember that one, but it had special deploment areas and rules, and you had to have a bunch of freighters to act as Troop Carriers. Too much fuss, for me. I don't want to restrict a player's deployment or dictate the Order of Battle in any way. I want to be able to add Troops to my bag of tricks without planning a whole game around the fact that there are Troops in the game. weedsrock2 wrote: We ran into this limitation when doing the Fubuki cards. I couldn't come up with anything acceptable. I will be very curious to see what R.B. does with the Gunston Hall and the Axis equivalent. I'm afraid it's going to keep coming up. The Germans, the British, and the Americans all used Destroyers to deliver Troops, too. I'm wondering if we can work out a combination of House Rules and SA's that would allow regular Ships to carry Troops without disrupting the game too much.   swarbs wrote: I think this could make a more interesting scenario, it seems a bit awkward trying to orchestrate troop landings on the kind of time scales this game is supposed to deal with. Taking the Objectives has always been a mostly symbolic artifact of the game, anyway, when you think about it. Adding symbolic Troops might make things a bit harder, but a whole lot more interesting.   swarbs wrote: A scenario where troop counters could be secretly added to a number of destroyers that have to exit the other side of the map could be interesting. See!  Now, if we had Troops, we could do stuff like that.   LuckyE77 wrote: Amphibious assault. Once per game if this unit is in the same sector as your oppenets airfeild, roll a die, on a 6 your oppenet cant use it but you can. Amphibious Assault is a fairly generic name for what you're proposing, which sounds more like a Commando Raid. It might be a very useful SA for all sorts of units.   jfkziegler wrote: What if instead of having them affect objectives, you allowed them to seize an island and use an airfield, letting you launch land-based planes every turn? I really like this idea, because it gives Ships that carried Troops something useful to do. I'm at a loss for how to word it, at the moment, though. I'm still thinking of Troop counters, and I subconciously keep trying to integrate the two ideas. Hmm. I've been staring at the screen, waiting for inspiration.   NeuralDream You don't really need much for what you want though Chesty. Just houserule that destroyers carry 1 unit and cruisers carry 2. You don't need SAs. The one that delivers the most troops at the opposite side of the map wins. chesty NeuralDream wrote: You don't really need much for what you want though Chesty. Just houserule that destroyers carry 1 unit and cruisers carry 2. You don't need SAs. The one that delivers the most troops at the opposite side of the map wins. I like those numbers for capacities, and the fast convoy idea, but I very much do want to make new Troop related SA's, mostly to give all those otherwise undistinguished Destroyers something useful to do.  Problem is, I don't know what's coming with the Gunston Hall.  Will there be new rules, or will she just have a clever new version of the Vital Cargo SA? Sticking within the rules we have, I still think the Objectives are about the only thing in the game that Troops can affect.  They can hold objectives while the fleet is fighting, and given a turn or two, they might even improvise airstrips.  I think these would be useful things.   Here are two SA's I'd like to see... Troops Aboard 1 - Once per game, when this unit is adjacent to an uncontested objective at the end of the Sea Movement phase, you may declare that you have landed Troops.  If you do, place a Troop counter on that objective. SeaBees - Once per game, when this unit is adjacent to an objective you control at the end of the Sea Movement phase, you may declare that you have landed SeaBees.  If you do, that objective becomes an Airstrip on the following turn. (Suggested by jfkziegler) Troop Counters (some thoughts) Once deployed, Troop counters can't be moved to another objective. You must land two Troop counters to remove one enemy Troop counter from an objective. You can stack as many Troop counters on an objective as you like, once you control it. A Troop counter has AA 2 and 6/10/1 Armor scores versus Bomb and Gunnery attacks.  (?) NeuralDream People haven't noticed it, but I've made a troop-carrying Deathmatch deluxe variant. http://aaminis.myfastforum.org/about7862.html chesty NeuralDream wrote: People haven't noticed it, but I've made a troop-carrying Deathmatch deluxe variant. http://aaminis.myfastforum.org/about7862.html Well, this is one of those "Why didn't somebody already think of this?" moments.   IJN Fuso One variation I like to use on large maps is this: 1.  No off-map land base 2.  Each side has a "home Island" of certain basing capacity. 3 seems to work. 3.  If you deploy troops via transport ships to forward islands, you unload 3 units.  If you transport troops via DDs you transport 1 unit.   4.  Once you establish a forward base with at least 3 troops on it, you can base 2 (3)more planes.  These forward airbases can have the advantage of launching planes every turn like a carrier to incent you to want to do this. These rules only work for scenarios that allow reinforcements of course.  And NDs DeathMatch Deluxe takes the idea further to merge the land/sea games.  In the absense of land games units, you can add a series of scenarios as objectives. 1.  Establish an airbase on an island on your opponant's side of the map. 2.  Put an objective on some islands and only allow claiming of that objective if X number of troops have been transported. 3.  Or combine a DeathMatch variant where you earn extra points / turn based on how many troops are deployed to forward islands. chesty Hey, IJN Fuso! Those are cool rules.   NeuralDream's rules are cool too, with the cross-over between AAM and WaS, but I was looking for something with less impact. I'm still pondering the concept.   To make a Troop counter, cut a 1/2" x 1" strip of paper and fold it in half, like a little tent. Write the name of the Nation and put a circle around a 1 on one side, and write AA 2 above 2/10/2* on the other side. One Troop counter costs 1 point. If you rule that Ships with Troops aboard have to be marked, you can drape the Troop counters over the Ships that carry them. When they land, just put them on the objective. * I've adjusted the Armor scores for Troops to allow them to be fairly easy to hit, but tougher to kill outright than you might think. Comments? chesty Anyone want to argue scores for a Troop counter? I'm thinking 2/10/2.  Make it so that big Ships or Bombers can wipe 'em out with one good attack, and so that little Ships or Fighters have to hit 'em at least twice. Suggestions? Andreas3 chesty wrote: Hey, IJN Fuso! Those are cool rules.   NeuralDream's rules are cool too, with the cross-over between AAM and WaS, but I was looking for something with less impact. I'm still pondering the concept.   To make a Troop counter, cut a 1/2" x 1" strip of paper and fold it in half, like a little tent. Write the name of the Nation and put a circle around a 1 on one side, and write AA 2 above 2/10/2* on the other side. One Troop counter costs 1 point. If you rule that Ships with Troops aboard have to be marked, you can drape the Troop counters over the Ships that carry them. When they land, just put them on the objective. * I've adjusted the Armor scores for Troops to allow them to be fairly easy to hit, but tougher to kill outright than you might think. Comments? why not use the plastic soldiers form the A&A boardgame together with their troop counter chips? And then you could use the Artillery for something like coastal guns... jfkziegler What about a variant style of play that involved putting three islands on the center row instead of objectives?  In order to claim one of those islands, you would need to bring a transport or a destroyer adjacent to the island and unload troops onto it.  Then, you would score points equal to an objective. Or, you could add another element to it by declaring how many troops each unit could hold.  For instance, 1 group for a destroyer, 2 groups for a JOB, and 3 for an LST.  Then, you keep the objective points unless someone comes along and lands their own troops.  If they land an equal number of troops to what you already landed, then the island reverts back to unclaimed.  If they land more, then they get the island. You could even have a designated spot on the map (the airfield, maybe?) to serve as the troop pickup area. chesty Andreas3 wrote: why not use the plastic soldiers form the A&A boardgame together with their troop counter chips? And then you could use the Artillery for something like coastal guns... NeuralDream has the Deluxe Deathmatch rules that already do that. Well, except for the Artillery. Good idea!   chesty jfkziegler wrote: What about a variant style of play that involved putting three islands on the center row instead of objectives?  In order to claim one of those islands, you would need to bring a transport or a destroyer adjacent to the island and unload troops onto it.  Then, you would score points equal to an objective. That's vaguely what I had in mind, but I wanted to leave a regular objective in the middle, or maybe an island in the middle with a regular objective on either side? I'm glad you brought this up, because I hadn't thought of the set-up as part of the Troop Rules.   jfkziegler wrote: Or, you could add another element to it by declaring how many troops each unit could hold.  For instance, 1 group for a destroyer, 2 groups for a JOB, and 3 for an LST.  Then, you keep the objective points unless someone comes along and lands their own troops.  If they land an equal number of troops to what you already landed, then the island reverts back to unclaimed.  If they land more, then they get the island. That sounds about right, to me. Islands can only be taken by Troops, and you get points for taking the island and for every turn you hold it. Landing an equal number of Troops to clear an island is a major adjustment to reality, but I can see that it would be much easier to play it that way. I would argue that Destroyers can get 1 Troop counter, Cruisers can get 2, and Auxiliaries can get from 3 to 5, but only if they have an SA for delivering Troops. An SA for delivering Troops would make a lot of otherwise drab sisters look a lot more attractive. jfkziegler wrote: You could even have a designated spot on the map (the airfield, maybe?) to serve as the troop pickup area. I assumed we were talking once per game. Hmm. You'd have to put the Troop counters on or by the Ships that are carrying them, to keep track of which Ships have Troops aboard. (I still think folded bits of paper would make excellent Troop counters.) If some version of Troop rules finds its way into the game, we could come up with SA's that would make a lot of Ships more relevant to the game. I'm thinking of all those Ships (mostly cruisers) that could desperately use an SA for shelling Troops ashore, and all those Ships (mostly Destroyers) that were used as fast transports, and all those Ships (mostly Auxiliaries) that were used as Troop transports. According to the rules we have now, none of that stuff matters. I don't know about you, but after reading so many Ship histories for the Repaints, I think that stuff should matter. If we develop some good Troop rules, they will.   What do you think, so far? Greyh Seer This should be moved to scenarios section.  It looks ripe for a full playtest and implementation!  I like the overall idea. I think you should be able to use auxiliaries to deliver troops even if they don't have the SA for delivering them.  Just perhaps less that the LSTs. jfkziegler Moved, as per Greyh Seer's request. UNC_Samurai For my Gibraltar invasion scenario, I'm thinking about having multiple landing sites in different coastal hexes, and giving the German/Italians increasing victory points for every transport they land and every hex they land troops in. chesty jfkziegler wrote: Moved, as per Greyh Seer's request. Okay, but I think we could use a little more discussion of some basic questions. For instance, can Ships with Troops aboard make normal attacks? Greyh Seer wrote: I think you should be able to use auxiliaries to deliver troops even if they don't have the SA for delivering them.  Just perhaps less that the LSTs. I should've left Auxiliaries out of that statement about being unable to deliver Troops without an SA. I agree that Auxiliaries are the natural choice for default Troop carriers, and that they shouldn't be able to carry as many as dedicated Troop carriers. That means a cap of 2, like Cruisers. Works for me!   UNC_Samurai wrote: For my Gibraltar invasion scenario, I'm thinking about having multiple landing sites in different coastal hexes, and giving the German/Italians increasing victory points for every transport they land and every hex they land troops in. Interesting idea!   I think you can do it fairly easily.  The rules already handle gaining points for delivery, so all you're adding is a restriction on where you can deliver the load, right? UNC_Samurai chesty wrote: UNC_Samurai wrote: For my Gibraltar invasion scenario, I'm thinking about having multiple landing sites in different coastal hexes, and giving the German/Italians increasing victory points for every transport they land and every hex they land troops in. Interesting idea!   I think you can do it fairly easily.  The rules already handle gaining points for delivery, so all you're adding is a restriction on where you can deliver the load, right? Yes and no.  There will be specific landing zones, but the attackers will get increasing victory points for landing at multiple sites, to represent the advantage of attacking from multiple directions.  I'm thinking 10/25/50 for landing at one/two/three sectors. Diamondback jfkziegler wrote: Or, you could add another element to it by declaring how many troops each unit could hold.  For instance, 1 group for a destroyer, 2 groups for a JOB, and 3 for an LST.  Then, you keep the objective points unless someone comes along and lands their own troops.  If they land an equal number of troops to what you already landed, then the island reverts back to unclaimed.  If they land more, then they get the island. I'd like to propose a twist: the other side lands on your island, that triggers a land battle on a separate map (ideally, this would have separate plaers for the ground-game). Destroyers can only land troops (incl. man-portable artillery like pack-howitzers), transports can land troops and amphibious vehicles (Ka-Mi, Sherman DD), and amphibious craft (Gunston Hall, T1) can land any ground units. Wet/dry coordination thus becomes critical: do you get some troops onto the ground and hope they can hold long enough for the armor and arty to catch up, or do you wait until you can land everything and chance the whole taco ending up in Davy Jones's Locker? jfkziegler For a large game, I think that's a good idea, Diamondback.  However, I am concerned that such a game could drag on for hours with constant map switching.  It also wouldn't work for people like me who don't play the land game. It does give me another interesting idea, though.  What if you could land pieces from the A&A board game and they could fight it out just like they would in the board game?  That would be quick and easily accessible. Diamondback That's why that addition is only if you have additional land-game players to run the land battles, while you and the other guy focus on getting reinforcements through while cutting each other off... It'd really be better for a long convention game, ideally the bigger the better so if someone's watching and wants to play for a bit you can give 'em a DesDiv or CruDiv, or an infantry or armor company. chesty Diamondback wrote: It'd really be better for a long convention game, ideally the bigger the better... I'm trying to avoid another layer of complexity, if possible. As it is, I believe I'll need to provide armor scores for the Troop counters, just so Gunnery and Bomb attacks can be used to destroy them. (There has to be a way to get rid of Troops, apart from countering them with Troops of your own.) I'll have to work on this some more. Any thoughts? jfkziegler wrote: It also wouldn't work for people like me who don't play the land game... Me neither.  No offense, Diamondback.   ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ I searched out some Destroyers that were used as fast transports, but I still haven't gone through the histories of all the American DD's, yet. I'd also like to find some Cruisers that carried Troops, for variety. Edit... They're listed below. jfkziegler chesty wrote: Diamondback wrote: It'd really be better for a long convention game, ideally the bigger the better... I'm trying to avoid another layer of complexity, if possible. As it is, I believe I'll need to provide armor scores for the Troop counters, just so Gunnery and Bomb attacks can be used to destroy them. (There has to be a way to get rid of Troops, apart from countering them with Troops of your own.) I'll have to work on this some more. Any thoughts? What if troops on an island have a base saving throw of five dice or so? In other words, if a troop counter is fired upon by the gunnery of any ship, both the ship and the troop roll dice.  The ship rolls its gunnery, the troop rolls its five dice saving throw.  Both are calculated by the rules of WaS (4's and 5's are one sucess, 6's are two successes).  If the ship wins, the troop is destroyed.  If the troop wins, it survives.  The dice number may have to he higher than five, but I think the basic idea is sound and relatively easy to do. jfkziegler Please check out my new troop landing rules and let me know what you think. chesty jfkziegler wrote: Please check out my new troop landing rules and let me know what you think. I think that's an excellent idea!   I'm off to work, but now I've got something to occupy my mind, and I'm eager to see where this goes. Thanks!   jfkziegler One thing I am really excited about in the troop rules is that they make objectives make sense.  Instead of fighting over a piece of open ocean, you're actually trying to seize a piece of land, which seems like a more worthwhile and realistic objective. chesty jfkziegler wrote: One thing I am really excited about in the troop rules is that they make objectives make sense.  Instead of fighting over a piece of open ocean, you're actually trying to seize a piece of land, which seems like a more worthwhile and realistic objective. Removing claimed objectives has always bothered me. The game is more of a race and less of a battle that way. With Troop rules, and the change to how objectives are counted, the game is more like a real battle.   chesty Reference stuff for the new Troop rules... _____Troop & Auxiliary Related SA's________________________________ Bombard - Once per game, instead of making a Main Gunnery attack, this unit can bombard your opponent's land airbase if this unit is in your opponent's ship deployment area.  At the end of that turn, place 2 additional rearming counters next to each aircraft at the airbase. (Haruna, Quincy, Pasadena, Mauritius, Ramillies) Close Convoy Escort - The sector this unit is in can contain one friendly Ship above the stacking limit if one of the Ships is an Auxiliary. (Taney, Naluca, Smeul, Sborul) Convoy Defender - When making Gunnery attacks, if a friendly Auxiliary unit is in the same or an adjacent sector, this unit rolls one extra attack die. (Kenya) Convoy Guard - During your Air Attack phase, choose an enemy Submarine within range 3.  It receives one extra harassment counter this turn. (Empire Macalpine, Gadilla) Convoy Guardian - Once per turn, during your Sea Movement step, you may choose a local Auxiliary unit.  Enemy Ships may not make Gunnery attacks against that Auxiliary unit this turn. (Revenge, Royal Sovereign) Convoy Screen - If this unit is in the same or an adjacent sector as a friendly Auxiliary unit, this unit rolls one extra attack die when making antiair attacks for this turn. (Montpelier) Guard the Convoy - While this unit is in the same sector as a friendly Auxiliary unit, enemy units can't attack that Auxiliary unit until this unit has been attacked at least once in the same phase. (Leander, Sackville) Landing 10 - Once per game, at the end of a turn, if this unit is adjacent to a coast or island on your opponent's side of the map, score 10 victory points.  You can only score victory points from a Landing ability once per turn. (Gunston Hall) Landing 5 - Once per game, at the end of a turn, if this unit is adjacent to a coast or island on your opponent's side of the map, score 5 victory points.  You can only score victory points from a Landing ability once per turn. (T1 Landing Ship) Limited ASW Threat - This unit doesn't penalize Torpedo attacks of enemy Submarines in adjacent sectors. (T1 Landing Ship) Precious Cargo 6 - In the End of Turn phase, if this unit has not been destroyed, you can add 6 points to your total when determining if you have won the game. (Emerald, Enterprise, Indianapolis) Rescue - If a local friendly Ship is sunk, you may roll a die.  On a 5 or higher, score 3 victory points (Radford) Shore Support - Once per game, instead of making a Main Gunnery attack, this unit can perform shore bombardment if this unit is in you opponent's ship deployment area.  At the end of that turn, score 4 victory points. (Oktybraskaya Revolutsia) Vital Cargo 6 - At the end of each turn, if this unit is adjacent to an island on your opponent's side of the map, you may remove this unit from the game and score 6 victory points.  You can only remove one unit with Vital Cargo from the game per turn. (Jeremiah O'Brien, Alba Julia) Vital Cargo 8 - At the end of a turn, if this unit is adjacent to an island on your opponent's side of the map, you may remove it from the game and score 8 victory points.  You can only remove one unit with Vital Cargo from the game per turn. (Kinai Maru) Secret Cargo 4 - At the end of a turn, if this unit is adjacent to an island or coast on your opponent's side of the map and no enemy Ships are local or adjacent, you score 4 victory points.  You can only use Secret Cargo once per game. (Casabianca) Secret Cargo 6 - At the end of a turn, if this unit is adjacent to an island or coast on your opponent's side of the map and ne enemy ships are local or adjacent, you score 6 victory points.  You can only use Secret Cargo once per game. (Empire Macalpine) _____Troop Haulers____________________________________________ _ Day (6?) USS _ Slow 1, Convoy Screen, Troops 1 ? (New SA's) Convoy Screen - If this unit is in the same or an adjacent sector as a friendly Auxiliary unit, this unit rolls one extra attack die when making antiair attacks for this turn. Troops 1 - Once per game, when this unit is adjacent to an island at the end of the Sea Movement phase, you may declare that you have landed Troops.  If you do, place a Troop counter on that island. _ Jaguar (9?) HMS _ Close Escort, Troops 1 ? Troops 1 - Once per game, when this unit is adjacent to an island at the end of the Sea Movement phase, you may declare that you have landed Troops.  If you do, place a Troop counter on that island. _ Jackal (8?) HMS _ Troops 1 ? (New SA) Troops 1 - Once per game, when this unit is adjacent to an island at the end of the Sea Movement phase, you may declare that you have landed Troops.  If you do, place a Troop counter on that island. _ Khartoum (8?) HMS _ Troops 1 ? Troops 1 - Once per game, when this unit is adjacent to an island at the end of the Sea Movement phase, you may declare that you have landed Troops.  If you do, place a Troop counter on that island. _ Sachtouris (?) Greek _ Sub Hunter, Sub Trapper, Troops 1 ? (New SA's) Troops 1 - Once per game, when this unit is adjacent to an island at the end of the Sea Movement phase, you may declare that you have landed Troops.  If you do, place a Troop counter on that island. Sub Trapper - Once per turn, during your Surface Attack step, you may choose a local or adjacent friendly Destroyer.  That Destroyer rolls one extra attack die when making ASW attacks this turn. _ Hermann Kunne (?) DKM _ Lay Smoke Screen, Troops 1 ? (New SA) Troops 1 - Once per game, when this unit is adjacent to an island at the end of the Sea Movement phase, you may declare that you have landed Troops.  If you do, place a Troop counter on that island. _ Anton Schmidt (?) DKM _ Mines, Troops 1 ? (New SA) Troops 1 - Once per game, when this unit is adjacent to an island at the end of the Sea Movement phase, you may declare that you have landed Troops.  If you do, place a Troop counter on that island. _ U-511 (?) DKM _ Submerged Shot, Secret Cargo 4, Fearless Veteran ? (New SA) Fearless Veteran - This unit is not affected by the ASW threat penalty. _ Nicolo Zeno (8?) RMI _ Lay Smoke Screen, Troops 1 ? (New SA) Troops 1 - Once per game, when this unit is adjacent to an island at the end of the Sea Movement phase, you may declare that you have landed Troops.  If you do, place a Troop counter on that island. _ Giovanni Da Verrazzano (?) RMI _ Troops 1 ? (New SA) Troops 1 - Once per game, when this unit is adjacent to an island at the end of the Sea Movement phase, you may declare that you have landed Troops.  If you do, place a Troop counter on that island. _ Kawakaze (?) IJN _ Longe Lance Torpedoes, Troops 1 ? (New SA) Troops 1 - Once per game, when this unit is adjacent to an island at the end of the Sea Movement phase, you may declare that you have landed Troops.  If you do, place a Troop counter on that island. _ Kuroshio (11?) IJN _ Longe Lance Torpedoes, Troops 1 ? (New SA) Troops 1 - Once per game, when this unit is adjacent to an island at the end of the Sea Movement phase, you may declare that you have landed Troops.  If you do, place a Troop counter on that island. _ Oyashio (11?) IJN _ Longe Lance Torpedoes, Troops 1 ? (New SA) Troops 1 - Once per game, when this unit is adjacent to an island at the end of the Sea Movement phase, you may declare that you have landed Troops.  If you do, place a Troop counter on that island. _ I-29 (?) IJN _ Submerged Shot, Elusive Quarry, Secret Cargo 4 ? _ I-30 (?) IJN _ Submerged Shot, Secret Cargo 4 ? . chesty As I wait for a live opponent for another test of the Troop Rules, I've been thinking about the builds I'd like to try. Build Factors Be sure to bring more than one Transport per group, and be prepared to leave them behind if they fail to keep up. Both sides can use the islands to screen their approach to each other, and it's not unusual to see Ships on opposite shores of an island, landing troops on the same turn without being able to fire on each other.  After that, the islands can used for cover, and initiative becomes important. With the rule for damage spreading before stacking, you have to damage every Troop counter on a given island before you can destroy one.  That means that once a player puts four Troop counters on an island, those troops are effectively immune to unsupported air strikes, since you can't put more than four squadrons in a box.  With the rule about regrouping at the end of each turn, you don't want to make half-hearted attacks. Once troops have been landed, they're surprisingly hard to hit with Gunnery attacks (That Armour 5 is tough!), even though a typical Dive Bomber can usually get a hit. Troops are the best anti-troop weapon. ______________________________________________________ Just some thoughts before I call it a night.   jfkziegler chesty wrote: With the rule for damage spreading before stacking, you have to damage every Troop counter on a given island before you can destroy one. That rule was never added.  I'm afraid that it actually goes too far to the other end of the scale and makes troop counters too powerful. chesty jfkziegler wrote: chesty wrote: With the rule for damage spreading before stacking, you have to damage every Troop counter on a given island before you can destroy one. That rule was never added.  I'm afraid that it actually goes too far to the other end of the scale and makes troop counters too powerful. It does. I know I was the one who proposed the idea in the first place, but I've seen the error of my ways. Now, I think the Armour 5, infinate Vital, and 2 hull points are plenty. Maybe even too plenty, if I'm allowing Troop counters to re-group. Have you already thought of giving Troop counters light cruiser armor and hull stats? The lower Armor would give Destroyers a chance to hurt Troop counters, but the extra hull point would mean you'd have to hit them three times apiece to kill them. After a test of the rules as is, I might test the different scores, unless you've already tried it? jfkziegler I played around with a few different possibilities, and this seems to be the sweet spot for the intersection between being tough to kill and being possible to kill.  Also, destroyers can hurt the troop counters, they just need to get close to do it.        Axis & Allies ForuMINI Forum Index -> WAS Scenarios & Houserules Page 1 of 1