Archive for Axis & Allies ForuMINI Specialised in the World War II Axis & Allies Miniatures and War At Sea Games          Axis & Allies ForuMINI Forum Index -> WAS Rules Clarification weasel Rules update, U-boats, and the ASW threat In the second sentence it states that you can reduce "Torpedo attacks to a minimum of 1 die," then after the two bullet points it says you can reduce the attack to 0 dice or less.  The reason I ask is that this happened while I was playing around and trying out the updated rules. I had a crippled U-66 sub, so it now had an attack of 2 at range 0. In the same sector there were Haida2x and Arunta1x destroyers. This would theoretically drop its attack to 0 (or-1) torpedoes at range 0. But I also controlled another sub and using the "Wolf Pack" SA giving me a +1d6 to torpedoes.  So, the question is, do I have a 1d6 or a 2d6 at range 0? I know that I get a minimum of 1 die, but the last sentence says this is only guaranteed after all penalties and bonuses are assessed.  I played it that I got 2d6, because otherwise the "Wolf Pack" SA is of no use with multiple ASW threats. Just curious as to the way you all read it. NeuralDream I read it as 1d6. swarbs Yes, ND is correct.  You add on all the bonuses and harrassments.  At this stage the actual torpedo roll can be reduced to below zero.  After counting both the bonuses and harrassments, the final tally is increased to a minimum of one torpedo.  The minimum of one is applied after everything else, rather than bonuses being added to that minimum. weasel Alright, thanks guys. I could see an argument for either, but I think you are both right. defender390 Re: Rules update, U-boats, and the ASW threat Here's the math for next time - don't ya just love algebra: Formula: ((A - P) - W) + B = F Initial attack value = A Penalties = P ASW threats = W Bonus = B Final attack value = F weasel wrote: I had a crippled U-66 sub, so it now had an attack of 2 at range 0. A = 3 P = 1 (crippled) weasel wrote: In the same sector there were Haida2x and Arunta1x destroyers. W = 3 weasel wrote: But I also controlled another sub and using the "Wolf Pack" SA giving me a +1d6 to torpedoes B = 1 Final tally: ((3-1) -3) + 1 = F     (2 - 3) + 1 = F           -1 + 1 = F                  0 = F If F = 0 or less than 0, the final tally is increased to a minimum of one torpedo. weasel What have you done to this awesome game?!!?  ALGEBRA!!! but, yeah that will help later..stoopid maths. Fellblade Re: Rules update, U-boats, and the ASW threat defender390 wrote: Formula: ((A - P) - W) + B = F Initial attack value = A Penalties = P ASW threats = W Bonus = B Final attack value = F That formula is incorrect per the most recent ruling on the WotC forum. ASW threat is applied last after all bonuses have been applied: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1157983 Quote: OK, I'm not sure what's wrong with my head these days -- I just had a root canal, and the painkillers must be scrambling my brain. Torpedo attack reductions from ASW threat and from Crippled status are treated differently. ASW threat can reduce a torpedo attack all the way down to 0 dice or below, including bonuses from special abilities. If that happens, the sub still gets 1 torpedo attack die. Crippled status never reduces a sub's torpedo attack below 1 die. Anywhere on the stat card where the sub had at least 1 torpedo attack die, it will still have at least 1 torpedo attack die when crippled. SA bonuses tack onto that 1 die just like they would normally. BUT ... If a crippled sub is being affected by ASW threat, it can be knocked down to 0 or fewer attack dice, including bonuses, just like any other sub. It would then get 1 attack die anyway. Steve defender390 Re: Rules update, U-boats, and the ASW threat Fellblade wrote: That formula is incorrect per the most recent ruling on the WotC forum. ASW threat is applied last after all bonuses have been applied: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1157983 Crap. Please don't tell my 8th grade math teacher. Should still essentially work since its simple (ha) addition and subtraction. Fellblade Its not that the math is wrong, the rules got changed on you. swarbs Yeah, and the rules didn't really change either, now players just don't have an opportunity to cheat by saying that harrassment reduced their attack to 1 (even though it reduced them even lower) and that they were now adding in bonuses to bring the attack back up.  The rules before were the same, but these invite absolutely no comment or possibility of cheating, just like a good rule should.        Axis & Allies ForuMINI Forum Index -> WAS Rules Clarification Page 1 of 1