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| 'Warspite' |
'Warspite' corrections + Allied equipment listThis is version 2.8 of my 'Warspite' recommended errata and corrections for War at Sea ship and aircraft cards:Submarine Ambra - torpedoed and sank the 6,000 ton AA cruiser HMS Bonaventure. Delete the 'destroyer killer' SA and substitute cruiser killer at same factor. Scharnhorst - had an effective anti-torpedo defence which Bismarck's was partly based upon. Allow the -1 torpedo hit SA as in Bismarck. Scharnhorst - shares the record for longest range hit in WW2 with HMS Warspite. Scharnhorst gets: 'shoots at range 5 or 6 once per game using range 3 or 4 dice' SA like HMS Warspite. (anything referring to Scharnhorst may also be applied to Gneisenau) HMS Hood - can only be vitalled at range 3 and above by battleship main guns. Ignores enemy 'four sixes' rolls at closer ranges. Ignore hits from cruisers and smaller. For this purpose Graf Spee and Scheer are NOT cruisers so Hood is vulnerable. Devastator - was used extensively as a bomber in the opening months of 1942. Once per game may substitute a 7-dice bomb run for a torpedo attack. Swordfish - German big ships had a great deal of trouble shooting at Swordfish as these aeroplanes attacked slower than the big ships' fire control computers allowed for. No Swordfish were shot down by Bismarck or driven off. German big ships lose 1 dice AA against Swordfish only. Does not apply to Karl Galster or smaller. Zero/Zeke - early war Japanese pilots were of high quality and got their best out of this type. In 1941/42 battles ONLY the Zero/Zeke gets an extra dice fighting against any FIGHTER type. USS Baltimore - there is no evidence of enhanced anti-torpedo qualities in this class. When USS Canberra of this class was struck by an air-dropped Japanese torpedo she was crippled. Remove the -1 torpedo hit SA. Kondor - was available much earlier than the card suggests but its bombing was less effective. Lose one dice bombing in 1940 and 1941. It was primarily used for attacking single merchant ships or poorly protected convoys. Stand-off glider bomb is not available on the Kondor until the last month of 1943. Treat as '1944 only'. Not available 1945. Tirpitz - should have torpedoes. Give it torpedoes 2/1/0 as Karlsruhe. No torpedoes were carried on Bismarck. U-66 - 'speed 2'. Should be speed 1. U-47 - [EDIT] 'hull points 1' is NOT an error. See debate below. Italian submarine Ambra is also hull point one to reflect small size of these two submarines. British cruisers get secondaries - HMS Jamaica now gets secondaries 4/4/3. This should also be applied to HMS Ajax, HMS Exeter, HMS Kent, HMNZS Leander and HMAS Sydney. HMAS Canberra gets secondaries at 3/2/1. For HMS Exeter at Battle of the River Plate use 3/2/1 as Canberra. ************************************************* Allies and Lend-Lease equipment: Despite the national flags on the WAS cards many ships or aircraft of one nation were actually used by another. This is an attempt to codify those acceptable uses for strictly historical games. All applicable points values [e.g. 7pts per Stuka] must still be paid. *** Stuka, JU88, Bf109 - were all operated by the Germans in support of Italy. Up to two German aircraft may support in a 100 pts 'Italian' force. In this context U-boats are not 'Italian' for the purpose of a 100 to 199pt game. (see U-boats below). In a 101 to 199 point game the Italians can have up to three German aircraft, but up to four in a 200 point game or any larger points values. See note below about no Kondors in the Med. *** U-Boats - U-boats actively operated in the Mediterranean in support of the Italian navy sinking HMS Ark Royal and HMS Barham among others. Up to one U-boat may be used per Italian submarine or warship in play. There is an upper limit of up to two German U-boats in a 100 point game and up to three U-boats maximum in all higher points value games. Note that in a 100 - 199 point games the Italian player must chose either German aircraft OR U-boats. Italians can only mix German aircraft AND U-boats at 200 points or higher. An Italian player cannot use Kondors in support of U-boats. Kondors were not actively deployed in the Mediterranean. *** HMAS Canberra - although 'Australian' this is a model of the Royal Navy's 'County Class' cruiser and may be operated in numbers by the RN to represent Norfolk, Suffolk, Dorsetshire, etc. The Sydney may also operate with RN forces as an RN vessel. Card date should read as '1939' on both. Australian vessels also operated alongside US vessels so Canberra and Sydney types may also be operated by a US player as if US vessels. *** PT boats: were operated by the Royal Navy under Lend-Lease in addition to the RN's (own basically similar) MTBs. Up to four PT boats may be fielded by an R.N. player at 100 pts, six at 200 pts. *** Catalinas: were operated by the Royal Air Force's Coastal Command. Britain was the first nation to use this type in combat. It was a Catalina which located the Bismarck. An R.N. player may operate up to one Catalina maximum. Once per game ONLY that Catalina may boost a Swordfish attack as per the shadowing rules on the Catalina card. RAF Catalinas do not carry out torpedo attacks or bomb attacks. Their primary role was ASW and recon. Use of the shadowing rule has been deliberately restricted due to the previous lack of German and Italian fighters. If any Axis fighters ARE available then this restriction is removed and the R.N. may then field up to three Catalinas and boost any air attacks as per card. This makes an R.N. side slightly more effective against the Japanese without making it necessarily too powerful versus the Germans and Italians. *** Grumman Avengers and Hellcats: The Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm used these as well as the Wildcat (Martlet) and later Corsair. It was the Fleet Air Arm which proved that the Corsair could be safely operated from a carrier. The Royal Navy can deploy Hellcats in 1944 to 1945. The Royal Navy can deploy Avengers in 1944 to 1945. *** US Beaufighters: The US operated Beaufighter Mark VIF in night fighter squadrons over the Mediterranean. If a scenario requires US night fighters Beaufighters may be used but these lack any torpedo armament. *** Flower Class Corvettes: The HMCS Sackville was a Flower Class corvette. This type was used by many nations including France and Germany. The Free French may operate up to four HMCS Sackvilles as per the card. Vichy French Flowers were captured by the Germans. The Germans captured four Flowers building in France and operated them 1943/1944 with enhanced AA but probably lower ASW. Therefore a German player may have up to four HMCS Sackvilles 1943/44 but adds one AA dice and loses one ASW dice on each attack. German ships also lose sub hunter SA but gain close escort SA as Karl Galster. The USN also operated Flower Class corvettes in the Atlantic between 1942 and about 1944. Allow up to four Flowers in an Atlantic USN force. |
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| swarbs |
Saw these on the old boards and they make a lot of sense, do you have points value recommendations for changing the cards. Should the second Scharnhorst cost 43 or something like that? Or, do you just use these in actual scenarios where fleets are based on matching thier historical counterparts? | ||||||||||
| 'Warspite' |
I would not suggest monkeying with the points values. Some players may want the 'perk' of Gneisenau's extra main gun range but they 'pay for it' by having to have Scharnhorst first before Gneisenau can be brought into play. Besides it gives the Germans some extra compensation for losing two AA dice against Swordfish! smile |
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| 'Warspite' |
Now version 2.1
Gneisenau gun range now reads: Scharnhorst - shares the record for longest range hit in WW2 with HMS Warspite. If two Scharnhorsts are in play (as Scharnhorst and Gneisenau) both get: 'shoots at range 5 using range 3 or 4 dice' SA like Iowa. Does not apply to single vessels. |
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| NeuralDream |
Another good option for Warspite is ER 4+1
For Gneisenau we had also considered giving it 4+1 but in the end we decided to leave it at ER 4, with exactly the same stats as Scharnhorst. 
An increasing number of naval historians are considering Scharnhorst to have the record with 24,200m against HMS Glorious (see for example this website), so giving ER 4+1 to Gneisenau would be wrong if we don't give it to Scharnhorst too. As for Warspite, I can't say I have a good excuse for giving it 4+1. Maybe the fact that it's usually considered the record holder in the literature. |
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| 'Warspite' |
I am already on record as saying HMS Warspite (alone of the Queen Elizabeths) should get this bonus but she also qualifies for spotter plane due to her Swordfish floatplane's performance at 2nd Battle of Narvik. She also probably qualifies for 'lucky ship' or a bonus against glider bombs. She was one of the few ships to survive such an attack. I would give both Scharnhorsts 4+1 as well as Warspite but I would restrict none to only doing this for one turn, I would allow it for the game but until they are damaged (as Iowa). Incidentally I would question the date on your Gneisenau card. After late 1942 this ship had no big guns and the entire bow section was missing. The big guns were taken to places like Norway where some still survive today as a tourist attraction. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_battlecruiser_Gneisenau says: "Completly withdrawn from service in July 1943". |
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| NeuralDream |
Re: 'Warspite' corrections + Allied equipment list
I hadn't noticed that before you mentioned it. Instead of cruiser killer, I suggested a S.A. that involves the other reason the Ambra was famous: 
Of course cruiser killer is also justified.
These are good suggestions, but since you mentioned the Swordfish, there is another erratum you may want to add. The Swordfish Mk.II was introduced in 1943 and had nothing to do with any lucky hit against the Bismarck. It was good against subs though: 
Very nice to see this. I've also suggested some dogfighting S.A. for the early zero. I haven't houseruled against using after 1942, but I expect that this will happen naturally with the better choice of fighters that the Japanese get later. 
Very correct! 
Maybe you are right about the bomb rating. Anyway, I used the C3 version which I believe justifies bomb 9. 
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| Aquarius |
You should email these to someone at WotC and get them to do an official erratum release. | ||||||||||
| 'Warspite' |
They have been on the old WotC site since last year. I wrote them soon after the game came out in the UK. So I think they are aware of some of the issues involved. As repeat I have just put version 2.1 on the new WotC site as well. |
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| NeuralDream |
In WoTC they are not interested for historical accuracy at all. Only for flavour. I don't necessarily blame them, but I certainly don't agree. I believe that balance and fun in a game are the result of accurate representation of a balanced and fun subject. R.B. seems to base all his stats on a couple of popular books, and in his words he is a USN-fanboy. Tbh, that's more than I expected from someone who normally designs games with half-elves and orcs, but not good enough when your target group has an average age of 35. |
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| NeuralDream |
Oops, that's right. Thanks for spotting this. I'll try to correct it tonight. |
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| 'Warspite' |
Note that with the arrival of Barracudas in set II, one or two Wildcats (Grumman Martlets) are also possible. See 'escort carriers' above. | ||||||||||
| Jameson |
I was thinking the Beaufigther should historically be allowed in any Australian and/or Canadian build as well. What do you think 'Warspite'? | ||||||||||
| Diamondback |
Aussies, definitely.
Also, there were several Perla-class and ancestor- and descendant-design subs captured by the Allies, two Gloires by the Italians, and one Italian Navigatori by the Germans. I'll work up a chart later with what units and dates. |
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| Schlachtschiff Bismarck |
regarding Scharnhorst and Gneisenau I deffinately agree that the justify TD1 but I think that they both individually rate ER5 as the Scharnhorst hit first at the relative extreme range of 26400yrds and many sources state that a few moments later or with its next salvo Gneisenau struck the Glorious' bridgewhich (to me) indicates another 26xxxyrd hit. I am also for the er5 rating to be on Warspite along with a bonus sa like Aircraft Spotting: as long as this ship is undammaged it gets +1 to its main gunnery attack. | ||||||||||
| Jameson |
'Warspite' I know you're a busy man, but I would love to see this list updated to include Task Force units when you get a chance. Some of the people at my LGS use it to help them create builds. When I was in there yesterday they asked me about it.
Thanks, Jameson |
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| 'Warspite' |
If you look up you will see a few bits have been added but I will see what I can do.
Fleet Air Arm Avenger and Hellcat certainly need to be added. Thank you for the vote of confidence! smiles |
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| Andreas3 |
So whats up with the U-47? In your world it has armor 4 AND 2 hullpoints? Thats way overpowered if you ask me, and it's been offcially stated that it only got 1 hullpoint due to it's small size (like Ambra), whats your reason for changing those stats??? | ||||||||||
| 'Warspite' |
Interesting... I had never spotted the Ambra's one point and the debate I saw suggested that U-47 had been given one hull point in error. I will check on this and get back to you. |
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| weedsrock2 |
RB was specific that he is using the 'Armor' value to represent the difficulty in hitting a small, maneauverable sub, but the Hull 1 is intentional because of size. This was a comment for the U-47. |
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| 'Warspite' |
Interesting. I assumed this was an error as it means this sub cannot then become crippled. I will alter the errata and delete it , thank you. |
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| Andreas3 |
I forgot to mention that I admire this project, I think it's good that someone actually cares about historical accuracy to a degree where they actually starts doing something about it, and I actually have a suggestion for a unit: the Kate, give it determined attack, this baby deserves it 
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| 'Warspite' |
Thank you all.
I have amended the error and added: USN Flower Class corvettes and USAAF Beaufighters bringing this up to version 2.8. |
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| Lobukia |
Excellent resource, thanks Warspite 
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| chesty |
Thanks for sharing your work. Very nice!  
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| Diamondback |
Also, New Zealand gets 1 Dauntless, UK gets 1 Helldiver (test unit, they didn't like 'em).
B-25H also was briefly used as an improvised nightfighter until the Black Widow came online. |
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