Archive for Axis & Allies ForuMINI Specialised in the World War II Axis & Allies Miniatures and War At Sea Games          Axis & Allies ForuMINI Forum Index -> AAM General Discussion Field Marshal PF The Set VIII Outrage I have to get this message through to M2AO of whoever it is from WotC who lurks around these forums. Why WotC? Why couldn't you bother to get some original artwork done for the 41-45 set? Or at the very least use the artwork of the reprinted cards? Was it really a budget issue? Or just bad management? Why did you mix up the models for the German 81mm, and the SS-Panzergrenadier? Don't you have a single editor? Or maybe its just a lack of attention to detail. No only is this the first set since aircraft were introduced to not include aircraft, it is the first set to mix up miniatures, and the first set to not include any artwork. Remember when we got the preview stat card for the Hummel, and thought the silhouette was a temporary picture until the artwork was completed,  yeah right. Who were we kidding? Every set that goes by WotC is getting ruder and lazier concerning the quality of their products. Thats not the case with more popular games like D&D or Magic: The Gathering, but in comparison we are a smaller demograph. If WotC just wants to half-ass its way into my wallet, thats no longer going to happen. I have previously tried to defend WotC despite being infinitely annoyed at the scale change, yet I remained loyal. Its WotC that takes its customers for fools. Maybe we are, we let them get away with this garbage. Mark my words, next set there will be even less attention to detail, and so on... Its sad, A&AM is my favorite wargame, and i've been playing since the first release. Its sad to see a once great game torn and twisted by countless errata, point cost fluxuations, reprint after reprint, corner cutting just to bring the bare minimum to us. Its not right, WotC has until the next set to pull themselves together before I decide to invest in FoW or stick to my board-games. I haven't been hearing as much negative comments as I thought I would when I opened that EF booster. Especially from the more senior members, or maybe we've all just got used to crap quality in AAM. Steel_Panther Lets get Sharpe (or Sindor) to become CEO of the AAM division, that will shake some things up... AG124 Messerspit Field Marshal PF wrote: ...it is the first set to mix up miniatures... What about the Messerspit fiasco of D-Day? And the Pak 36 represented as a Pak 38 in the Base Set? Field Marshal PF Steel_Panther wrote: Lets get Sharpe to become CEO of the AAM division, that will shake some things up... Honestly, guys like Sharpe and many others on this forum could do a MUCH better job that the staff of idiots at WotC AAM division. There are many creative and plausible ideas here. WotC does not deserves such a great community, and understanding from its community. Sometimes I just wonder which group of people are responsible for AAM. The golden age of Sets 1-5 are over, and I can only guess it was a change in staff. Field Marshal PF Re: Messerspit AG124 wrote: Field Marshal PF wrote: ...it is the first set to mix up miniatures... What about the Messerspit fiasco of D-Day? And the Pak 36 represented as a Pak 38 in the Base Set? Oh my, thanks for the correction. Ok this is the third set the mix up miniatures, its no big deal now. Remember-OWS- I can make the Artwork in a flash... Field Marshal PF Remember-OWS- wrote: I can make the Artwork in a flash... Not the point, niether I nor anyone else should have to go to the trouble of making artwork or my own stat cards. These things are expected of WotC at this point, and there is no excuse for this senseless cut-back. Steel_Panther There we go, more than half the Division right here! Sharpe Steel_Panther wrote: Lets get Sharpe (or Sindor) to become CEO of the AAM division, that will shake some things up... There are many people that could do the job better than I could.  Unfortunately, they're all here instead of at WoTC. RAEVSKI the pak 36 -38 mistake even carried on to this set....... arrgghhh TorontoBizz I tried to keep a positive attitude. I bought 3 boosters and got 6 new units, the other 9 I've already got. Field Marshal PF Sharpe wrote: Steel_Panther wrote: Lets get Sharpe (or Sindor) to become CEO of the AAM division, that will shake some things up... There are many people that could do the job better than I could.  Unfortunately, they're all here instead of at WoTC. Your being modest, your contributions are much valued. Lets just say this forum community in on itself is the only real backbone of AAM. Steel_Panther Sharpe wrote: There are many people that could do the job better than I could.  Unfortunately, they're all here instead of at WoTC. So lets get them all together and show WOtC what the SHOULD be doing, with all the money they have. Sharpe Field Marshal PF wrote: Remember-OWS- wrote: I can make the Artwork in a flash... Not the point, niether I nor anyone else should have to go to the trouble of making artwork or my own stat cards. These things are expected of WotC at this point, and there is no excuse for this senseless cut-back. Actually, that's exactly the point.  If you want something done right. . . . Most of the cards that count are already only available on PDF.  We could make ones that look correct and, more importantly, actually depict units from WW2. I would expect nothing from WoTC except the same old-same old, and that includes empty promises. PS  The ZIS-3 from Set II was the wrong model, so that makes four sets. Field Marshal PF Sharpe wrote: Field Marshal PF wrote: Remember-OWS- wrote: I can make the Artwork in a flash... Not the point, niether I nor anyone else should have to go to the trouble of making artwork or my own stat cards. These things are expected of WotC at this point, and there is no excuse for this senseless cut-back. Actually, that's exactly the point.  If you want something done right. . . . Most of the cards that count are already only available on PDF.  We could make ones that look correct and, more importantly, actually depict units from WW2. I would expect nothing from WoTC except the same old-same old, and that includes empty promises. PS  The ZIS-3 from Set II was the wrong model, so that makes four sets. Then why buy into something that is so poorly constructed in the first place? The message of my thread was not to find solutions for an already dead set, but to warn WotC that "they" need to shape up. Thats like going to a dine-in resturant, playing full, and getting frozen food, then going home to heat it. Sharpe I need pieces to proxy for my own card set.  We've agreed on an acceptable rules set for the local group.  For the most part, we just buy singles, print out the cards we don't have and use whatever for the pieces we don't have.  We love the game, but refuse to shovel out good money for this garbage. It's more like stealing the recipe, then cooking the food right. WoTC has been warned over and over and over again.  They ain't listening and I'm tired of shouting. Field Marshal PF Sharpe wrote: I need pieces to proxy for my own card set.  We've agreed on an acceptable rules set for the local group.  For the most part, we just buy singles, print out the cards we don't have and use whatever for the pieces we don't have.  We love the game, but refuse to shovel out good money for this garbage. It's more like stealing the recipe, then cooking the food right. WoTC has been warned over and over and over again.  They ain't listening and I'm tired of shouting. I'll try shouting just a bit longer then. I rather buy into something thats convenient for me, and in my local gaming community, we don't have the kind of time to make our own game, or adopt a completely new system. All I ask is a little more attention to detail not a widespread overhaul. Sharpe I truly wish you well.  I would be incredibly happy if this game were done correctly.  I just don't know what could possibly affect them.  WoTC is determined to shoot themselves in the foot and that's the only target they seem able to hit. TorontoBizz Field Marshal PF wrote: Sharpe wrote: I need pieces to proxy for my own card set.  We've agreed on an acceptable rules set for the local group.  For the most part, we just buy singles, print out the cards we don't have and use whatever for the pieces we don't have.  We love the game, but refuse to shovel out good money for this garbage. It's more like stealing the recipe, then cooking the food right. WoTC has been warned over and over and over again.  They ain't listening and I'm tired of shouting. I'll try shouting just a bit longer then. Save your breath. I'll keep playing this game, but as I stated in the other thread (complete collection), I'm pretty happy with what I have. There isn't much in EF that I need or want. Cpt. John Miller This set has some sweet units in it that are brand new. The Panther is a very nice model, and the ISU-122 is the nicest miniature in the game. Ever. There are more than the usual amount of skunks in this set though sadly. I wasn't bothered at all that they remade the SSPG, until I saw the damn thing(very poor). So glad that I have more than enough of the original SSPG model(which will soon be $5 on ebay, mark my words). The infantry seem to get worse every set. The vehicles that have been released previously in rescaled sets are just the same as they were before, and the list is LONG on these(Tiger I, KT, Jagdpanther, Halftrack, StuG, T-70, etc.) and there are a quite a few same-hulled, different-turret tanks too(IS-2, M5A1, T-34/76, T-34/85, KV-85, etc.) that are mostly the same, though the turrets are improved. I'm still waiting to see the maps in person, but from the pictures I've seen, the factory looks pretty good but the "village" side seems very crowded unless you're looking for a urban combat scenario. I wanna see a few more things before I completely flush this set, and if they hadn't already leaked the early war set, I would probably be more upset than I am. I really feel for those who ordered multiple cases before the unit list was leaked. I have been very specific in my acquisitions so far, and this week I should be able to fleece some friends for their extras..... Field Marshal PF Don't get me wong, its not all bad...Its just there could have been so much more. The VC I got is gorgeous, I love it, matches the Cromwell IV from 1939-45. The Romanian Infantry and French MG are the big ones for me. Its not enough to save the set for me i'm afraid. TorontoBizz I just wished that they had released a 45 piece set instead of 60 (or even less). I don't need another king tiger (got 3 V1) or tiger. There was nothing wrong with the V1 size and 45 piece sets. Why the V2 and 60 pieces of stuff we already have I don't understand. It must have something to do with $. lotharlutjens Personally, I'm for a complete overhaul, throw everything out but the minis, I am an old school wargamer whose forte is mechanized combat in the 20th century, specifically World War II and particurally the Eastern Front. This system does not have the neccesary feel of the period. Sorry, thats the truth to it. Gemes such as Panzerblitz, Squad leader and their ilk, designed back in the 70's, really blow AAM rules away as far as getting the right feel. Now I know Squad leader got a little carried away with overcomplications, but not in the beginning, it was a good Infantry combat system and the first expansion "Cross of Iron" brought the tanks up to snuff, but that is where IMO they should have stopped. Now Squad Leader has a deserved reputation as being overlycomplex and I won't deny that it became so. It is clear to me that what has occurred here is an attempted marriage between Magic the Gathering and Squad Leader placed under the heading of Axis and Allies, because, after all, how could that miss. It didn't, we were all sucked in, we WANTED this game to be good, but it is not. We have a saying here in Texas, If you take a lump uf cow manure ( we use other slang here ) and wrap it in a box and tie it with a bow, what you end up with is some good looking cow manure. No matter how much you wish it were a diamond. The Idea of a good tactical wargame using these minis could definitely work, but getting it to work, will take a lot of work, and fellows they just ain't producing. I so wish I had something positive to say. Arisaka99 TorontoBizz wrote: I just wished that they had released a 45 piece set instead of 60 (or even less). I don't need another king tiger (got 3 V1) or tiger. There was nothing wrong with the V1 size and 45 piece sets. Why the V2 and 60 pieces of stuff we already have I don't understand. It must have something to do with $. I'll take your Tigers for free if it will make you feel a little better . They won't give you nightmares anymore. Richter von Manthofen Positive thing about this set first: It has a few great units in it... It starts with #1 Ram and and ends with #59 T-4... In between is (sorry) a great deal of bull... 9 of 12 commons that are either useless or repaints and some are even messed up - Gaaa 3 of 12 commons (the others) are plain basic infantry - OhhhhKaaaay - but I like the Finns and Romanians - at least they are 8/6 and not 8/5.... The poles - why can't we simply use the Polish Mausers from Reserves... uncommons - a few repaints made uncommon from rare - glad I got so many Vals and IV Es a few more repaints - even V2s T-70! but also a few highlights rares - Mostly I like them - really - even the 17-pounder - at least I can now use a Brit version with my Brit Cromwells. Forget the Tigers, but the rest is really OK or better (I might revise that opinion if I hold them in my hands ). Despite the "good" part of this expansion Its really a stinky thing... In a case I will get 4 (of24) commons I like I will soon have all uncommons I want from this set 8how many R-35s does one need ) OK Jeeps I need many, but not that many So why should I buy cases or even boosters - order the singles you need from your FOLSS and its actually cheaper as you get what you want. Why did I buy cases in the past? because I got a boatload of commons I could really use - not this time with so many reprints and disgustuing errors. 1 of each uncommon -  Usually at least the vehicles were worth it - no need of the rares Now you still need/want (probably) the rares, but no longer the commons or most uncommons - the old sets had a few highly sought uncommons in them N-Africa: 3 Trucks+ Kübelwagen, Vet para, Italian Alpini/french Alpine, MGs for Italy, Russia and US, (10 out of 24) a few not so bad ones (Autoblinda - P204, Stuart, even greek/Aussie commander) 5-24 =15/24 you are likely to be happy if you draw them (maybe even the M11/39 or 251... ) 39-45 had a few good common tanks and a real good selection of units for beginnaers. But EF - what do we get at the uncommon front: IMHO there is no unit that REALLY shines - the Flamer and Engineers - yes we can use a few, but getting 5+ - NO finnish MG a few, Finnish Commander 2 or three maybe, The NCO - nice maybe the best of all. French MG - a few I might want aóne or two of most other new uncommons - but the probabilty to get another reissue is too high this time... ... But the biggest drawback IMHO are the units that are NOT in this time... no planes - we must wait 9+ months for a Stuka and Russian fighter now , still no Guards riflemen, still no Russian AA gun, No Japanese spotter - all units we are desparately waiting for no UK Mortar No UK/SU indirect fire Artillery And we do still miss all this fine units and should pay an increased price... I say: Throw the plastic into the harbor, grab your weapons and throw the CENSORED out of the gamer country--- Its Rvolution time comrades... RedBaron Field Marshal PF, get your message to that MAO guy. It's an INSULT this set... it's an insult to all AAM players out there. I did the same, I was in a way defending WotC even though there were a lot of things gone wrong before this set. Now, seeing how this set turned out, the joke is even bigger. I also like AAM over any other table/turn based/strategy... but now... the only hope is that the set from next year will be dealt with major attention by the Wizards of the Costs. Wtf, hope dies last... regards Field Marshal PF Richter von Manthofen wrote: The poles - why can't we simply use the Polish Mausers from Reserves... The Soviet Union cannot be in an army with any other nation, thats why they added it. Richter von Manthofen all is possible if the players agree on it. As the tournament scene is dead I would not put too much weight into rules that are published ONLY online. Its a game after all... Eric Marino Don't nuke M2A0 for this he's not the one responsible. take your complaint up with customer service, they're the ones that would get your message across. If you nuke M2A0 your attacking one of the few people in the WotC crowd who gives a damn about this game you know, the guy who more or less made the revised cards. DaJudge I look at it this way- I know gaming companies are going to make poor choices based on budgets and other conditions. I just expect it, I've been playing card games and mini games for over 10 years. I've quit games before like Magic, L5R, Lord of the Rings, Star Wars and others because of what I felt were stupid decisions or lack of intelligent decisions. WOTC is getting cheap on us. Thinner plastics, lousy paint jobs or none at all, cheap stat cards, less minis in a booster, etc etc. Quality control is down also, getting a brand new mini that you don't have and getting the wrong stat card just sucks and is unacceptable. I don't have time to call them at lunch or mail things off! However, if the glass is 3/4 empty, I'll look on the bright side and know that I don't have the patience to paint or assemble my own minis, FOW is more expensive for a comparable collection(I have thousands of pieces from A&A) and I can buy these things as singles for the most part. No, I hate the reprints and less quality but until a better alternative(for me) comes along, I'll buy what I need. I still love playing the game, we have a great group of guys that like to play it and I have since ignored the "collectible" word in collectible minis games a long time ago. If FoW is better for you, thats ok, they will do something to piss you off at some point because it has become just like death and taxes, gaming companies WILL disappoint us at some point in a games life. I've long since forgotten about the messerspit and the 3' gun, it's just not worth the headaches for all the good things the game provides. I am buying far less of this set and speaking with my wallet, will get what I want from it, trade or give away the rest and just have fun. I'm tired of complaining, it doesn't do much good anyway. Remember-OWS- You all know what is going to happen. We can speak with our wallet, but like DDM, WOTC/AH will speak with a unplugging and unpleasant answer... THE END Polish_Cavalryman Remember-OWS- wrote: You all know what is going to happen. We can speak with our wallet, but like DDM, WOTC/AH will speak with a unplugging and unpleasant answer... THE END the game died for me 3 sets ago.  I'm considering anything usefull as gravy.  In this set I get about 6 or 8 useful pieces.  I'm hoping for at least 15 in an early war set once they start making planes again. Oddfellow Remember-OWS- wrote: You all know what is going to happen. We can speak with our wallet, but like DDM, WOTC/AH will speak with a unplugging and unpleasant answer... THE END These are difficult times. DDM is dead. Heroclix & Horrorclix are dead after Wizkids folded. I fear that "voting with our wallet" in this economic climate may be the death blow to our fun little game. I'll admit the set looks more than a little shaky this time around, but given layoffs and required cost cutting measures it was bound to be that way. I'm just happy its here and hope that "Early War" sees the light of day.  I not only plan to buy as much of this set as I have the past (which is A LOT), but I have made a conscious choice, even though its more expensive, to try to buy more boosters from my LGS. I will be voting to keep my favorite game (AAM) and local game store alive. I only hope that my "vote" can make a difference. NorthernRommel Re: The Set VIII Outrage Field Marshal PF wrote: I haven't been hearing as much negative comments as I thought I would when I opened that EF booster. Especially from the more senior members, or maybe we've all just got used to crap quality in AAM. Complaining to deaf ears is unproductive. That is why most of us old AAM gamers gave up on doing so. It just gets too sad to bother with after a while. I know that must sound overly negative, but I don't mean to be. Instead I will continue on my own path games wise. I truly was trying to stay positive for this set. Really I had hope that the minis were better. I intended to actually purchase some for the new scale in a big way, along with some old boxes of 39-45. But if the bendy barrel thing is as common as people say, and the plastic is really that cheap then count me out as well. As to maps -- if you want better ones they are on the way with closer to 50m hex scale for serious house to house battles. Cheers all. NR Lt_V I am disappointed as well, there are only 12 or 13 pieces I will collect from this set, so I will buy some singles...this helps WotC a little, if they were losing money, they would not be making them and if they wanted to make more money they would have added 5 new planes, 12+ new vehicles, 12+ new infantry and still added 30 needed reprints(ie SSPG, PPSH...good pieces from the early sets that are harder to find), this would satisfy the new gamer with the V2 vehicles and the old gamer with lots of new planes and infantry to use....if they suffer poor sales(which I am not saying they will) and shut it down, oh well... but if they do cancel the game then it is because of thier own mistakes... ...also to M2A0, if he wants to help his company and satisfy his customers then he should spend more time here ... if early war is as I stated above I will buy 2 cases right away and will end up buying another 2-3 cases in boosters within 6 months...thats a lot more than the 7 boosters and handful of singles I will buy from this set.... zaarin7 I for one offered to be a confidential fact checker of historical image where name and model are concerned after the PaK 36/38 flub in set I FOR FREE!  Guess what, I never got a responce.  I think spending 30+ years learning history and having college training in history/poli-sci would have qualified me for this task IMHO. DaJudge zaarin7 wrote: I for one offered to be a confidential fact checker of historical image where name and model are concerned after the PaK 36/38 flub in set I FOR FREE!  Guess what, I never got a responce.  I think spending 30+ years learning history and having college training in history/poli-sci would have qualified me for this task IMHO. I think you have to be in their circle to actually do any kind of work. It's a really odd thing in the gaming industry. Most players always think they can do a better job and many probably can but when it comes down to it, it's still a difficult job. What we see as obvious mistakes, they obviously didn't see or didn't care. I personally never knew there was a problem with the pak 38 at gun. The 3' gun, yes but not the German one. I could care less and I think most people would agree, it's not worth getting upset about. The Spitfire, yes! A total screw up and unacceptable but other, little thing, just aren't that big a deal, to me anyway. Leader DarkAura_17 I'm very disappointed when i got my case today, I truly thought that UPS had some mix up but unfortunately they were correct. The infantry looks like crap, bendy barrels on the tanks and smudges? can there be any more to the dilemma? I bet in the next set, the early war, they will probably put AT LEAST one unit that has nothing to do with early war. Field Marshal PF Eric Marino wrote: Don't nuke M2A0 for this he's not the one responsible. take your complaint up with customer service, they're the ones that would get your message across. If you nuke M2A0 your attacking one of the few people in the WotC crowd who gives a damn about this game you know, the guy who more or less made the revised cards. You don't understand, I want him to get the message so maybe he can relay it to the fools at wizards. Field Marshal PF DaJudge wrote: If FoW is better for you, thats ok, they will do something to piss you off at some point because it has become just like death and taxes, gaming companies WILL disappoint us at some point in a games life. Its not about whether a gaming company will disappoint me, its about how many times and how frequently they disappoint me. You cannot compare the quality of customer service concerning AAM to any other games. I don't have to get used to anything, but if WotC would rather cut AAM than to try and fix it(This is probably what will happen) then so be it. Field Marshal PF Re: The Set VIII Outrage NorthernRommel wrote: Field Marshal PF wrote: I haven't been hearing as much negative comments as I thought I would when I opened that EF booster. Especially from the more senior members, or maybe we've all just got used to crap quality in AAM. Complaining to deaf ears is unproductive. Their not deaf, their just stubborn, maybe the likely sales drop for EF will be low enough to teach them a lesson, but high enough to keep the game alive. I can only hope. pdel21 about the bendy barrel thing, out of 2 cases of boosters, the only bendy barrels were on the marder, Panther (only slightly) and the jagdpanther.  Really it is not that bad......I'd of course prefer no bendy barells, but only 3 out of all those minis, doesn't equate to the sky falling for me. Remember-OWS- pdel21 wrote: about the bendy barrel thing, out of 2 cases of boosters, the only bendy barrels were on the marder, Panther (only slightly) and the jagdpanther.  Really it is not that bad......I'd of course prefer no bendy barells, but only 3 out of all those minis, doesn't equate to the sky falling for me. On 2 cases, from different seller, I got 17 bent barrel. This is LOW quality for me. Leader DarkAura_17 i got 14 bendy barrels, and 3 of the SSNLF Paragrendaiers.   TorontoBizz Remember-OWS- wrote: pdel21 wrote: about the bendy barrel thing, out of 2 cases of boosters, the only bendy barrels were on the marder, Panther (only slightly) and the jagdpanther.  Really it is not that bad......I'd of course prefer no bendy barells, but only 3 out of all those minis, doesn't equate to the sky falling for me. On 2 cases, from different seller, I got 17 bent barrel. This is LOW quality for me. Two cases, wow that's a big purchase. I thought of ordering a case, but I was short on cash. Then on the 15th my Grand-pa sent me $100.00 for Christmas. So I went ahead and bought 3 boosters. That will probably be the last EF boosters for me. TorontoBizz Arisaka99 wrote: TorontoBizz wrote: I just wished that they had released a 45 piece set instead of 60 (or even less). I don't need another king tiger (got 3 V1) or tiger. There was nothing wrong with the V1 size and 45 piece sets. Why the V2 and 60 pieces of stuff we already have I don't understand. It must have something to do with $. I'll take your Tigers for free if it will make you feel a little better . They won't give you nightmares anymore. Thank you for the generous offer Arisaka99. It's nice to know you're there to protect me. LOL Field Marshal PF TorontoBizz wrote: Arisaka99 wrote: TorontoBizz wrote: I just wished that they had released a 45 piece set instead of 60 (or even less). I don't need another king tiger (got 3 V1) or tiger. There was nothing wrong with the V1 size and 45 piece sets. Why the V2 and 60 pieces of stuff we already have I don't understand. It must have something to do with $. I'll take your Tigers for free if it will make you feel a little better . They won't give you nightmares anymore. Thank you for the generous offer Arisaka99. It's nice to know you're there to protect me. LOL I told you we have a great community. Campbjj I bought a case through my LGS because I get it for 125, and it provides him with business, seeing how he provides us with a place to play. TorontoBizz Campbjj wrote: I bought a case through my LGS because I get it for 125, and it provides him with business, seeing how he provides us with a place to play. I play at a couple of FLGS in Toronto. I try to bring a bit of cash each time and buy something (card holders, boosters, dice). They always have someting cool (classic GI JOE toys, the cool stuff from the 80s). I consider supporting my FLGS and WOTC two different things. There is no excuse for EF. Campbjj But not supporting EF may have a bad effect on the LGS, I mean I will probably end up buying another case over the next six months. Plus I need more RAMS!!!!!        Axis & Allies ForuMINI Forum Index -> AAM General Discussion Page 1 of 1