Archive for Axis & Allies ForuMINI Specialised in the World War II Axis & Allies Miniatures and War At Sea Games
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the-Prinz
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Ships to avoidI am pretty new to WAS min game and im looking for some advise. Are there any ships or aircraft that are so bad that they are completely useless to use. Im interested in your opinins. Please include why you dont like them or wouldn't use them-
Thanks
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jfkziegler
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First of all, 
Second of all, here's a brief list, covering both Set I and Set II.
Set I:
HMS Hood - It's a cool looking piece, but at 48 points you want your unit to have staying power. The Fatal Flaw special ability on the Hood makes it easy to kill. Its vital armour of 13 doesn't help either.
TBD Devastator - The only lousy American air unit in the game. 9 points is way too much to pay for torpedo 2 and ASW 2, especially when you consider its lousy armour and vital armour.
Ambra - It's the cheapest sub, but there's a reason why it's so cheap. Its 1 hull point makes it easy to kill, and its torpedo payload doesn't match up with a lot of other subs either.
Bolzano - It would be a nice unit if it cost 12 or 13 points, but at 18 points it costs way too much for what it does.
Jintsu - Same as Bolzano, only more so. It's way too expensive for what it does. Yukikaze essentially does the same thing for 7 less points.
Type 13 Subchaser - This unit doesn't cost much, but it doesn't do anything well. It is without a doubt the worst unit in War at Sea.
Set II:
Casabianca - It doesn't have the torpedo load of most other subs, and since it lacks the submerged shot ability, it will get creamed by most subs.
Jean Bart - Yes, it costs less than Richelieu. There's a reason for that. It's pretty bad.
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That's about all I can come up with. I hope it helps!
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Andreas3
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Re: Ships to avoid | the-Prinz wrote: | I am pretty new to WAS min game and im looking for some advise. Are there any ships or aircraft that are so bad that they are completely useless to use. Im interested in your opinins. Please include why you dont like them or wouldn't use them-
Thanks |
Jintsu...
subchaser (sometimes)
Jean beart I belive 
cant really think of more to tired, many people on this forum knows morw about it anyway 
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The_lucky_Y
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Kamikaze unit
It follows the subchaser duty for point fill.
-you must roll one die to determine that this unit can start
-no press the attack ability evn it had bomb attack value
-gain no bonus against enemy airborne AA from escorts because its a fighter
-easy to abort due to armor rate of 5
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Commissar_JPH
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| jfkziegler wrote: | First of all,
Second of all, here's a brief list, covering both Set I and Set II.
Set I:
HMS Hood - It's a cool looking piece, but at 48 points you want your unit to have staying power. The Fatal Flaw special ability on the Hood makes it easy to kill. Its vital armour of 13 doesn't help either.
TBD Devastator - The only lousy American air unit in the game. 9 points is way too much to pay for torpedo 2 and ASW 2, especially when you consider its lousy armour and vital armour.
Ambra - It's the cheapest sub, but there's a reason why it's so cheap. Its 1 hull point makes it easy to kill, and its torpedo payload doesn't match up with a lot of other subs either.
Bolzano - It would be a nice unit if it cost 12 or 13 points, but at 18 points it costs way too much for what it does.
Jintsu - Same as Bolzano, only more so. It's way too expensive for what it does. Yukikaze essentially does the same thing for 7 less points.
Type 13 Subchaser - This unit doesn't cost much, but it doesn't do anything well. It is without a doubt the worst unit in War at Sea.
Set II:
Casabianca - It doesn't have the torpedo load of most other subs, and since it lacks the submerged shot ability, it will get creamed by most subs.
Jean Bart - Yes, it costs less than Richelieu. There's a reason for that. It's pretty bad.
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That's about all I can come up with. I hope it helps! |
DIRTY LIES AND FILTHY UNTRUTHS!
All hail the Shrimpboat!
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King Tiger
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Re: Ships to avoid | Andreas3 wrote: | | Jintsu... |
no way, the great Jintsu is the greatest
at least I think so, I want thousands of them
*insert evil laugh here*
I'm actually going to say Bismark and Scharnhorst, I haven't lost a single vital ship to these guys, and they seem to die ever so easily
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Marshal Ney
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Re: Ships to avoid | the-Prinz wrote: | I am pretty new to WAS min game and im looking for some advise. Are there any ships or aircraft that are so bad that they are completely useless to use. Im interested in your opinins. Please include why you dont like them or wouldn't use them-
Thanks |
I would only add to this list the King George V. Though a very solid BB in all respects for the bargain price of 51 points, the "Jammed Mount" SA makes this unit undesirable to me. Though it only comes into effect on a die roll of "1", if it does, it reduces main gunnery attacks by by 2 for the remainder of the current and for the next turn. That takes it from 15/15/13/12 to 13/13/11/10. Though still decent numbers for a BB.
HMS Warspite is a better choice all the way around. Main Gun, Secondary and Tertiary armament...plus with "Longshot" (a one time 6 hex shot), plus a cost of 46...an excellent choice if you asked me.
Of course let's not forget HMS Rodney...but this is about units to avoid 
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EvilKobra
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As far as the Kriegsmarine goes, there are two units that have been essentially obsoleted by its (cheaper AND better) Set II counterparts, the Köln and the Admiral Graf Spee. Don't be fooled by the seemingly attractive Lead the Attack SA, it will only be useful in very rare circumstances.
U-66 is clearly better than U-510, but one point more expensive. If going for a sub-based fleet I'd first see how many U-510s you want to fit in, build the rest of the fleet around that, and then upgrade some (hopefully at least half) to the more expensive model with the leftover points.
S-boats... well, they're better than all the other torpedo boat types, but they're still only useful in very specific conditions (namely, island-heavy maps and few or no enemy fighters).
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EvilKobra
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Re: Ships to avoid | Marshal Ney wrote: | I would only add to this list the King George V.
(...)
HMS Warspite is a better choice all the way around. |
Strongly disagree. A battleship without Torpedo Defense is a dead battleship, at least against German and Japanese builds. Against Italians and US, yes, take the Warspite. But against torpedo blitz fleets, the key feature of a battleship is its resilience, not its firepower.
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Task Force 57
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Darn Tooting!
KGV has all the staying power you could ask for in a BB.
Avoiding hood is prob best if you want a gun line unit BUT... she is a BC rather then a BB and as long as you remember that and use her as a carrier watchdog or a fast wing with a jav or two she works very well... but only in larger games when you can afford a hv BB to hold the line.
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Athiator
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Re: Ships to avoid | EvilKobra wrote: |
Strongly disagree. A battleship without Torpedo Defense is a dead battleship, at least against German and Japanese builds. Against Italians and US, yes, take the Warspite. But against torpedo blitz fleets, the key feature of a battleship is its resilience, not its firepower. |
Actually with the addition of the excellent sm79 the Italians can also now field a torpedo heavy fleet, albeit a land based air one.
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Marshal Ney
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Re: Ships to avoid | EvilKobra wrote: | | Strongly disagree. A battleship without Torpedo Defense is a dead battleship, at least against German and Japanese builds. Against Italians and US, yes, take the Warspite. But against torpedo blitz fleets, the key feature of a battleship is its resilience, not its firepower. |
True...missed that about the Warspite.
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Duck Crusader
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I didn't. 
*Glub glub glub*
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EvilKobra
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Re: Ships to avoid | Athiator wrote: | | EvilKobra wrote: |
Strongly disagree. A battleship without Torpedo Defense is a dead battleship, at least against German and Japanese builds. Against Italians and US, yes, take the Warspite. But against torpedo blitz fleets, the key feature of a battleship is its resilience, not its firepower. |
Actually with the addition of the excellent sm79 the Italians can also now field a torpedo heavy fleet, albeit a land based air one. |
Yes... I remembered shortly after posting. In fact I doubt we'll see many Italian fleets without the Sparviero.
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Duck Crusader
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Gods no, when that thing gets through it is brutal! Especially if you've got any wounded ships.
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Sire Fred
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| jfkziegler wrote: | HMS Hood - It's a cool looking piece, but at 48 points you want your unit to have staying power. The Fatal Flaw special ability on the Hood makes it easy to kill. Its vital armour of 13 doesn't help either.
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Very true. Every time I play the Hood, I have it blown up. Last game, my opponent got his four 6 with his Bismark's secondaries at range 2   And my King Georges V beside got vitaled by an Admiral Graf Spee range 2 attack  !
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swarbs
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| Sire Fred wrote: | | jfkziegler wrote: | HMS Hood - It's a cool looking piece, but at 48 points you want your unit to have staying power. The Fatal Flaw special ability on the Hood makes it easy to kill. Its vital armour of 13 doesn't help either.
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Very true. Every time I play the Hood, I have it blown up. Last game, my opponent got his four 6 with his Bismark's secondaries at range 2 And my King Georges V beside got vitaled by an Admiral Graf Spee range 2 attack ! |
Just how badly did you piss Neptune off? Sounds like its time to sacrifice a sheep or something.
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NuclearLunchbox
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I have to disagree with the Bolzano being on this list.
It has great mains, good secondaries, a decent AA value (for Italians), and torps. I don't know if it's just my bad luck, but torp DDs never seem to get through for me, at least not for more than one turn. Torp cruisers, on the other hand, are great because they have enough staying power to fire a couple rounds worth of 2-torp attacks and get some devastating hits. On Bolzano, the torps can give a BB a bad day (and the mains with some great rolls) and the guns make it a DD and CL killer!
I dunno... just my two cents. Cheers...
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Count_Ciano
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| NuclearLunchbox wrote: | I have to disagree with the Bolzano being on this list.
It has great mains, good secondaries, a decent AA value (for Italians), and torps. I don't know if it's just my bad luck, but torp DDs never seem to get through for me, at least not for more than one turn. Torp cruisers, on the other hand, are great because they have enough staying power to fire a couple rounds worth of 2-torp attacks and get some devastating hits. On Bolzano, the torps can give a BB a bad day (and the mains with some great rolls) and the guns make it a DD and CL killer!
I dunno... just my two cents. Cheers... |
I agree with much of this. As you pointed out, it's torpedo attack can threaten BB's, something the Zara lacks. And, with shrewd use of Bolzano's "flank speed" SA, it can be very good for carrier rushes.
Bolzano's bigggest flaw is it's cost; if it were about 3 or 4 points cheaper, it would be a much more popular unit than it is.....
My 2 pennies! 
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NuclearLunchbox
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I know we're a weensy-bit off topic, but I really think torp cruisers are underutilized in the game, at least from what I've seen.
One of the reasons I almost always take the Exeter as the allies is that wonderful torp attack and the fact that if you roll right, it JUST WON'T DIE!
Cheers...
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doganpc
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English cruisers are great! Too bad cruisers are undervalued in the standard game. Can't count how many times a rogue torpedo at range 2 has given me an edge to prey on.
Personal Opinion, Everything American and Japanese in this game sucks. Take those two out and you will have some awesome games!
Dogan
You know, instead of setting up and finding out who one at that instant.
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