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Random

Message from wife of Danaussie

To all here
My name is Cherie, I am wife of Danaussie.  I have sat here for months watching and listening to what has been going on here.

My husband had a vision and you are all aware of what those visions have been and initially were widely accepted.

It is upsetting, annoying and disgusting to watch the way some of you have been treating him, his ideas and his leadership ability.  It may not be openly vicious or breach forum protocol but has had a very obvious undertone of bullying and harassment towards someone who has tried desperately to please all and in the process of pleasing all and being diplomatic has had to put aside his own original vision of what has meant to be a simple and fulfilled idea without the intense pressure of full on competition.  

Let’s not forget the lesson that we all endeavour to teach our children "it’s not meant to be about winning at all costs, it’s about having fun".  Or is this just a BS message that we put out there and never practice it.

To those who have been around awhile, is this kind of treatment of someone with new ideas and visions you want put out there to your new members "Agree or get stuffed" because that’s the message you are sending.  Giving people an uphill battle from the beginning.

My husband is a good and patient man.  His commitment to forumini and particularly this clubhouse has taken many hours, I really don't think any of you have any idea how many.  Late nights and time away of his children and me.  All due to his intense passion for all aspects of this game and the potential this forum has to be truly great.  His passion is one of his best assets and for me to come home to find him frustrated and upset over something that he should be enjoying being a part of just makes me angry!!!!!!

I understand that Dan has resigned from his role here of his own accord and I support that.  I thank those who have supported Dan during what has been a trying time.  And to those who have just argued for the sake of arguing and wanting things changed to suit their own desire for the ultimate win. That kind of attitude and behaviour is not in the best interest of the game or the forum.  I hope you sleep well at night and I hope this is NOT the message you are passing to your children.

What is the world coming to if an international forum has to resort to acting like 2yrs throwing tantrums and giving people a hard time. What ever happened to respect, integrity and the desire to treat people like equals.  Yes everyone is entitled to a voice but you also have to respect and listen to the voice of others.

Dan has treated everyone with the utmost respect and with the utmost professionalism.  Question "Can you all say the same?"

Just so that you know and so that you can't gripe about him putting me up to this.  Dan is unaware at this time that I am posting this.

Cherie
disgruntled wife

ps. Sorry about the length of this but I am female and a wife and am also entitled to MY voice
P71

Sorry to hear that. One man's vision does not equal the entire community's though, and part of being a leader is dealing with discord and making compromises. Dan did a great job but I think he will be much happier in his new, laid-back role. He should be painting ships anyways, right! Wink

Relax and enjoy the beer Danno. Don't yell too much at the TV during the Bathurst (are you a Holden man or a Ford man?).
Joshua

Sad I am very sorry to hear that any of us have given Dan a hard time! He was not only an excelent leader of Club RN, but a great friend to all us here, whether they were with the Axes or the Allies. I was saddend by the news that he had left the Clubhouse. I have been absent for several months and was not aware that there had been problems. I hope now that the Clubhouse has been reconstructed and Dan has returned, all hurt fealings will be mended. Its just a game, guys. Its not worth breaking friendships over, really. Wink  You have been such a talented painter, President, and friend Dan, good to have you back!!!
good job                                good job
angryhydralisk

If only things turned out diffrently...
Random

Dan put aside his own vision a long time ago for the sake of "community"  he addressed all issues with a democratic view only to be torpedoed at every turn. As was said by someone else "its is only a game guys"

Painting is not the only thing that Dan is great at, as I am sure "arrogence", "wordgames" and "childish stupidity" arn't the only talents of some members of the WaS clubhouse.

I'm sure I am not alone in thinking that there are some here who might need to take a good look at their own behaviours and how they might impact on others.

I mean "really" you lot are worse than a bunch a nurses (and I thought we were bad)
Respect is not a big ask is it really?
rplume

Random wrote:


I'm sure I am not alone in thinking that there are some here who might need to take a good look at their own behaviours and how they might impact on others.


 AMEN this strikes the nail on the head squarely. you are not alone...
Asbestos

Random wrote:

I mean "really" you lot are worse than a bunch a nurses (and I thought we were bad)

On the one hand I take offense, on the other... yeah, some of the lady nurses can suffer from chronic bitchitis.


Is what I said sexist or true... or both?  scratchin

Anyway... Random is Dan's bro right? Am I wrong?



Dan is a Great Guy (with capital Gs), his passion for this game is undeniable. The man has been a breath of fresh air into the community. The Clubhouse was/is a great idea, his repaints are always a joy to look at, but... I believe that he has had a little trouble with loosening the reigns in the Clubhouse.

In a way, I started us down this tragic path when I proposed the first of the non-Single Nation clubs and thus, deviated from Dan's vision. As more multinational clubs joined in, I believe that Dan felt that his vision was being further destroyed and that it was taking away from what he felt the Clubhouse should be about. Here I must disagree with Dan, the current setup with separate Theater/Single Nation/Interest clubs is I believe superior to Dan's original vision. Yes, Dan's original vision was good, but it immediately ran into trouble because a significant portion of the community does not apparently want to play as the same nation 50+ times in a row! People felt constricted and the Theater clubs have allowed them to not only break the monotony, but to join a club that tailors to interests beyond 'favorite navy'.

Now... there have been some problems. I, like Dan, see certain 'interest clubs' as not relevant and not belonging to either Club House. I agree with Dan that Club Sandwich was initially created to mock the flurry of threads and posts about Clubs that sprang up when Dan first proposed the idea of such things to the community. I agree that it is irrelevant to the WAS Clubhouse. Likewise, I believe that Club Team Rocket (or whatever) is also a bit too goofy for its own good. Now that the Clubhouses have been separated I think it should be evident that something like 'Club Sandwich' is neither WAS or AAM related, its something that has more in relation to the Lounge than any of the other sections of the Forumini.

I see nothing intrinsically wrong with a group that comes together over their love of BLTs or Dagwoods or whatever it is they like, but I also have no idea why such a club would push so hard to be a part of the Club Houses. If they want to be a usergroup fine... that's between them and ND, but I don't see why they must have a place in the WAS or AAM Clubhouse.


So, on the one hand, I very much support Dan and his decisions and even stand by his side on a few issues... on the other, I think its a fair judgement that he had trouble detaching himself from his creation once it was birthed from his mind and let loose into the untamed wilds of the community.
P71

Asbestos wrote:

So, on the one hand, I very much support Dan and his decisions and even stand by his side on a few issues... on the other, I think its a fair judgement that he had trouble detaching himself from his creation once it was birthed from his mind and let loose into the untamed wilds of the community.


Truer words...
Asbestos

I notice I use the terms 'on the one hand and on the other' too much, also ellipsis. Hopefully that has not detracted from my message. I'd edit it, but I hath already been quoted and thus my mistakes are now indelibly fixed in the thread.
admiral_tee

Asbestos wrote:

Now... there have been some problems. I, like Dan, see certain 'interest clubs' as not relevant and not belonging to either Club House. I agree with Dan that Club Sandwich was initially created to mock the flurry of threads and posts about Clubs that sprang up when Dan first proposed the idea of such things to the community.


Finally someone has mentioned names - well at least a Club name anyway.
Club Sandwich was initially put forwards by Babs as a protest - that's fairly obvious.
However when i took the reigns over for Club Sandwich (or at least became the vocal member and subsequent representative for it), as clearly mentioned in many posts, it changed, morphed into something different.
If anything it has been tarnished by its beginnings, however a bunch of people on here wax lyrically about being forgiven for sins past etc etc...

Asbestos wrote:

I agree that it is irrelevant to the WAS Clubhouse. Likewise, I believe that Club Team Rocket (or whatever) is also a bit too goofy for its own good.


Club Sandwich IS irrelevant to the Clubhouse as it stands now, who has said otherwise? After initial discussions this was agreed upon, hence there's been no further discussions about Club Sandwich becoming a part.
It's a non issue and has been for a while now - December 2010...
However it has as much a right as being a Special Interest group.

Asbestos wrote:

Now that the Clubhouses have been separated I think it should be evident that something like 'Club Sandwich' is neither WAS or AAM related, its something that has more in relation to the Lounge than any of the other sections of the Forumini.


Club Sandwich is ALL about War as Sea, it always has been. It's more so about ALL War at Sea then any other club. It's about being a fan of War at Sea, the mechanics, the ships, the playing experience, the discussions etc.
There was even an idea, that never came to fruition, about expanding it to include the AAM land game, but that was not to be.
It DOES have a place and what you've expressed above is simply an opinion that is not shared by all.

Asbestos wrote:

I see nothing intrinsically wrong with a group that comes together over their love of BLTs or Dagwoods or whatever it is they like, but I also have no idea why such a club would push so hard to be a part of the Club Houses. If they want to be a usergroup fine... that's between them and ND, but I don't see why they must have a place in the WAS or AAM Clubhouse.


Club Sandwich is not about a love of sandwiches, though who doesnt..?
As mentioned many times in many discussions that i'm sure you've read, the Club Sandwich moniker is a metaphor - there's literally everything thrown into a Club Sandwich and the club is about everything War At Sea... I would've thought the imagery was fairly simple to work out.

About Club Sandwich entering the Clubhouse - again, thats a non issue, nada, zip, zero. There's been no "Pushing so hard", with the exception of the initial discussions in December 2010

Also - i firmly believe the above issue isn't the sole reason, though reading your above statement it would imply otherwise.

Dan and i had a recent debate over Club Sandwich again in one post, then looking at his "Vote yourselves in a new Club House President" post:

admiral_tee wrote:

Dan - we obviously don't get along for many reasons, there's no denying that.
Having said that i recognise, as others do, that you have a lot of energy and passion.  That isn't easily replicated.


danaussie wrote:
I'm still trying to work out what those reason are Tee, not that it matters, look, I dont need everyone at Forumini to be my friend mate, I dont need or want that. But it would be nice if people did have a problem that they could send me a PM and maybe we could come to some sort of understanding.
If the problem is that I'm too vocal then I make no appology for that, if it is my drive or enthusiasm I make no appology for that either I make no appology for wanting to stand up and get involved.
Dan  Very Happy


Tee
Bull Halsey

Random wrote:
Dan put aside his own vision a long time ago for the sake of "community"  he addressed all issues with a democratic view only to be torpedoed at every turn. As was said by someone else "its is only a game guys"

Painting is not the only thing that Dan is great at, as I am sure "arrogence", "wordgames" and "childish stupidity" arn't the only talents of some members of the WaS clubhouse.

I'm sure I am not alone in thinking that there are some here who might need to take a good look at their own behaviours and how they might impact on others.

I mean "really" you lot are worse than a bunch a nurses (and I thought we were bad)
Respect is not a big ask is it really?

First off, its nice see dans wife is putting her two cents in Very Happy nice to meet you. secondly, i agree wit hyour statements above as some people werent really fair to him. of course as we all know it happens in life but over an online club house, its very childish as i stated in another thread. Once again its nice to meet you Cherie, to bad it was on these term lol.
Cheers to you and Dan,
Zach
PS tell dan he needs to update me on this HMS Hood! Laughing
rplume

all this multi nation stuff and "special groups" thing did was splinter the community into some handbag slinging bingo hall.  Everyone likes the original plan but then has to take a good idea and smear it with their own stench of silliness until so much pus has oozed out that it becomes a festering wound of penile envy.

Sadly some of you guys are piles of stink when it comes down to the point. Can't leave a good thing alone, can't leave a good man in charge. Why with all the effort wasted in this limitations by county or sea or club, you folks could have made the league a better place and played at least a dozen more games in the past months.
Instead it's so freaking confusing and piled on with  rules on this /that..  do you guys have this much turmoil at the LGS to get a game going every week?  Do I need to bring a lawyer with me when I go so he can check the settings and ensure it's legal to play a game.

wow man..... that's deep water for a simple game.
Random

Thanks Zach, it is nice to meet you all as well Smile

I just borrowed Randoms profile to make this post as I felt that I indeed had a few things to say.  

Keep it friendly guys and you can't go wrong. It makes for a much more enjoyable experience for everyone involved.

Cheers
Cherie
torpman

Wait is Dan leaving?!? Family does come first though. I do want to that Mrs.  Danaussie is right and we really need to treat each other better.
Random

rplume wrote:
all this multi nation stuff and "special groups" thing did was splinter the community into some handbag slinging bingo hall.  Everyone likes the original plan but then has to take a good idea and smear it with their own stench of silliness until so much pus has oozed out that it becomes a festering wound of penile envy.

Sadly some of you guys are piles of stink when it comes down to the point. Can't leave a good thing alone, can't leave a good man in charge. Why with all the effort wasted in this limitations by county or sea or club, you folks could have made the league a better place and played at least a dozen more games in the past months.
Instead it's so freaking confusing and piled on with  rules on this /that..  do you guys have this much turmoil at the LGS to get a game going every week?  Do I need to bring a lawyer with me when I go so he can check the settings and ensure it's legal to play a game.

wow man..... that's deep water for a simple game.



Well said, couldn't agree more, particulary like the "handbag swinging bingo hall" bit lol
Asbestos

rplume wrote:
Everyone likes the original plan

Clearly that isn't true. I'm not saying the original plan is bad, I'm saying that the current system that allows for both systems to exist side by side is better.


Tee: Club Sandwich needs to sit down and make itself some sort of coherent manifesto/whatever to explain properly what it is and to separate it from its beginnings. I recall the creation by babs, I recall the initial arguments in the Clubhouse a year ago, it is very possible that my opinion is tainted because of this. If you guys are the Club Olive of WaS then write up something.
admiral_tee

Asbestos wrote:
rplume wrote:
Everyone likes the original plan

Clearly that isn't true. I'm not saying the original plan is bad, I'm saying that the current system that allows for both systems to exist side by side is better.


Tee: Club Sandwich needs to sit down and make itself some sort of coherent manifesto/whatever to explain properly what it is and to separate it from its beginnings. I recall the creation by babs, I recall the initial arguments in the Clubhouse a year ago, it is very possible that my opinion is tainted because of this. If you guys are the Club Olive of WaS then write up something.


Sigh, this is already in place. Club Sandwich has sat down.
This was during December 2010 that the 'manifesto' was created and its been running that way since then.

http://aaminis.myfastforum.org/about20462.html&highlight=sandwich

Quote:
One of the core principles of Club Sandwich is that we don't restrict ourselves to any fleet, nation or theatre. We love WaS, that's it. Hell its altogether possible that we'll even have landlubbers join our club, as they simply love the land game.

I think Club Sandwich has the potential to be a very welcoming club, opening its membership for anyone, with no bias towards fleet, nation, army, historical accuracy, beer n pretzels, rules etc.


Quote:
It's a club that could very well pride itself on not having restrictive terms, on keeping within the bounds of good Foruminian manners, recognising that one theatre/one fleet just isnt enough for us AnA fans - and a little nod towards the Club craze that took most of us by surprise!

I feel that Club Sandwich members will also not be fussed about not being 'accepted' into Club Leagues - we perhaps recognise that other people are having fun and good on them!

So, its a club for people that don't want to be part of a club - oh the bittersweet irony!

It could also be the first club to welcome Land and Naval fans!



http://aaminis.myfastforum.org/about20535.html&highlight=sandwich

Quote:
There was a lot of that wasnt there? It was all a bit silly.
Club Sandwich may have started that, and I think it was Babs who first started that thread.
I happen to know Babs as a fellow Mod from from the online naval wargame Navyfield, so i know him better than anyone. It was a nod towards the madness of the clubs. Not mocking the clubs, but recognising the insane enthusiasm that took hold of many of us during that time!

And like everything, why can't Club Sandwich rise from the ashes of that exciting time on the forums. I've stated what Club Sandwich now considers its M.O.


Quote:
Club Sandwich is a sandwich, a mix up, a melting pot of people who have lots of different and varied interests in WaS but aren't accurately represented by the very focused 'single fleet only' (and in one exception a theatre) ruling that currently exists. And what better sandwich to represent a lot of different ingredients (ie different interests) than a Club Sandwich? Hell, i could call it Club Dagwod Sandwich, however i dont think many people would get the reference!


It seems fairly clear to me.
However I havent pushed for anything since December 2010, happy to be satisfied with the what was agreed at the time, ie we're not a recognised 'League Club' nor belong in the ClubHouse as thats for Leagues etc.

There was no 'rules' for special interests until recently, hence the current re-focus on Club Sandwich.

Tee
danaussie

Hi guys,

Well this has been an interesting thread indeed, I agree for the most part in all things my lovely wife has said, as reading and shadowing this thread last night it was great to hear from Asbestos in particular, and believe it or not, I had to agree with almost 100% of what he was saying. Although I would like to set the brother straight on the fact that Club Med is in no way responsible for the way things have turned out. So I just wanted to set his mind at ease on that.

Everything else he said was 100% spot on in my view including the fact that I may have been holding on too tight on this whole idea, a notion, that I think you will all agree, that if put in the same position yourselves would have been exactly the same way about an idea that you had created.

Be that as it may, my decision is final on this, and I shall let go of the reigns so to speak, and put the Clubs in Sublime's more than capable hands, I will resign their fate to whatever that fate maybe....success is my ultimate wish of course. I just hope that the Multinational Clubs inevitable success will not spell the end of the National Clubs in total, this is my only reservation and my only fear.

So thank you Asbestos for a very well written article that made me see some interesting and well put points you are aces in my book mate, and thank you.

To RPlume - Mr Plume I think you are a true friend, and I just love your manner, its blunt to the point and devoid of any cryptology something I have been very grateful to you for in the past and was certainly glad to hear it this week. I agree that we have lost some good members through the emergence of Mutinationals, its not a speculation gentlemen, its a fact, do your research and you will see that what I am saying is right.

Nothing about that matters now however, we are where we are and we will press on with a two tier League if that is the wish of the new Club House President. The man (Sublime) knows my mind well on all the issues, but I want him to know that it is his boat to run now and I shall not be getting in his way. That is disrespectful to his position and not helpful to the job he has before him. Randy was spot on about more than one of his points and I would hope that all the members here keep alot of what he is saying firmly in their thinking as we press on in the weeks ahead.

To P71 - Things have been rather strained between us through this whole affair, I have found you to be rude and abbrasive in your dealings with me not an attitude I take kindly to in any circumstance. But particularly when it is mis-understood that I had a job to do and was trying to do it to the best of my ability. I dont wish to quarrel with you and if there is something in general you wish to say to me regarding anything I may have said that has offended you then you should contact me so we may come to an understanding on that.

I am a strong willed man too mate, I will have you know, but a fair man, any step another man takes toward me I shall move two steps toward him. Like I have said before though I have no wish to have everyone at Forumini my friend, that is idealistic and absurd to wish that, so if we are experiencing some kind of clash of characters, like has happend here before, I can accept that.

As far as I am concerned I have done everything you asked of me and did it without wanting to at times and did it while you were speaking rudely to me, so you tell me have I done all I could have done? My conscience is clear however, and I want you to know I hold no ill-will toward you but I would thank you to use a more respectful tone with me in future. I'm 40 not 14.

To all members - Thank you all, you have all been wonderful to work with and we have all created something fantastic here I hope that we can regain the enthusiasm and comradery that had existed here from the early days. I have no doubt that this will return as soon as we get a workable League running and the same passion and enthusiasm that once was, is restored. Thanks for all your kind words and support it has been great to know that you all felt that way. Its been an honor sailing with all of you. Yes all of you.

Cheers for now guys Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy

Dan
Admiral Duncan

As a member of Club Royal Navy I am proud to have Dan as our club leader. Thanks for founding it and being so enthusiastic.

It is a sad trait in some that they find it easier to spoil than create. Easier to snipe than support, or make fun of rather than applaud. It is these sort of people who dislike those who dare to put themselves out there for others.

You probably have more supporters in the silent majority than you think Dan, but I understand your decision. It is exactly what I would have done.
P71

danaussie wrote:
Although I would like to set the brother straight on the fact that Club Med is in no way responsible for the way things have turned out.


So it's the Multi-Nationals fault for everything, but the First one gets a pass? Okay...

danaussie wrote:
Everything else he said was 100% spot on in my view including the fact that I may have been holding on too tight on this whole idea, a notion, that I think you will all agree, that if put in the same position yourselves would have been exactly the same way about an idea that you had created.


We all get that it was your idea Dan, but you have to put aside your personal feelings when it's a community. I didn't like the idea of having to prove specific named ships were in our area, but that's what ND wanted and we all did it, and became better for it. Why can't you see that the majority of people wanted a split club and we've ALL been growing by leaps and bounds? Has not your own Club RN received at least 5 new members in the last few weeks, all from other Multi-National clubs who also have a love for the RN? The Clubhouse is larger and stronger now than ever, and as soon as all of this manufactured drama ends it will be a fabulous place to hang out with tons of activities and camaraderie.

danaussie wrote:
Be that as it may, my decision is final on this, and I shall let go of the reigns so to speak, and put the Clubs in Sublime's more than capable hands, I will resign their fate to whatever that fate maybe....success is my ultimate wish of course.


Well you left and returned once, so I hope you mean it this time for your own sake. You've done a great job and there's nothing to be ashamed of about what you've built here. But now it's time to let Sublime take the reigns and stop with the negativity...

danaussie wrote:
I just hope that the Multinational Clubs inevitable success will not spell the end of the National Clubs in total, this is my only reservation and my only fear.


...like this. We know your feelings. The facts are showing the opposite (as pointed out above about your own Club's membership levels, which is also the largest club in the house by more than double the nearest competitor). Just let it go, and let it grow, and you will see that the Clubhouse can be greater than even you imagined. No type of club will have any type of "dominance" over the other, the split League's and co-membership have solved that, permanently.

danaussie wrote:
To P71 - Things have been rather strained between us through this whole affair, I have found you to be rude and abbrasive in your dealings with me not an attitude I take kindly to in any circumstance. But particularly when it is mis-understood that I had a job to do and was trying to do it to the best of my ability. I dont wish to quarrel with you and if there is something in general you wish to say to me regarding anything I may have said that has offended you then you should contact me so we may come to an understanding on that.


I have said exactly what I've meant towards you in ever single dealing. One only has to read every single thread to see the truth, I suggest you do the same. I have no personal issue with you, not now, not then, not ever. Your PM's from before all of this should show you that. If after re-reading all of your comments about the Clubhouse, my Club, the Leagues, and your first resignation you still feel like I am the cold one, you know where to find me. I know I am a very direct person, but that's just me personality. I've never made it personal and I take offense that you still consider it to be so. Once again, it's never been personal and I have no issues with you.

danaussie wrote:
I want you to know I hold no ill-will toward you but I would thank you to use a more respectful tone with me in future. I'm 40 not 14.


You get what you receive, Dan. I absolutely respect you as a person and a Foruminian. Act like a 40-year-old, and I will treat like one. I wish no disrespect on anyone, and have eaten my own hat on this forum more than once after misunderstandings with people. I will gladly do so again, friend.

Now, we have some unit lists to finish, some League details to work out, and a new set to play with. Shall we move on? To the high seas gentlemen.
P71

rplume wrote:
all this multi nation stuff and "special groups" thing did was splinter the community into some handbag slinging bingo hall.


Absolutely, 100% false. Sorry Mac, but you can't argue with the facts, and those are we have more clubs with more members that are more active than ever before.

rplume wrote:
 Everyone likes the original plan but then has to take a good idea and smear it with their own stench of silliness until so much pus has oozed out that it becomes a festering wound of penile envy.


First of all, as a Moderator, I find it offensive that you are using such foul language in a family forum. Some of our regular posters are in the 10-14 age bracket! Consider this a formal warning. Secondly, the first multi-national club was Club Med which formed in the same initial phase as some of the single-nations, including Club RN. So sorry if you think that other people's unwillingness to play the same fleet all of the time or their love for an actual theatre is "envious". We've had multi-nationals for almost 2 years, deal with it. And as for the "Special Causes", they were actually the first clubs. IJNCVLF was the very first one in existence, so I suggest you simmer down.

rplume wrote:
Sadly some of you guys are piles of stink when it comes down to the point. Can't leave a good thing alone, can't leave a good man in charge. Why with all the effort wasted in this limitations by county or sea or club, you folks could have made the league a better place and played at least a dozen more games in the past months.


Actually, most of us did stick around to do a ton of work. All of the multi-national clubs listed out every unit in their theatre with the actual historical operations they participated in, which was a requirement sent down by this forum's owner, NeuralDream. Many games were played, banners made, and ideas discussed. Other people were off starting their own forums. Just saying...

rplume wrote:
Instead it's so freaking confusing and piled on with  rules on this /that..  do you guys have this much turmoil at the LGS to get a game going every week?  Do I need to bring a lawyer with me when I go so he can check the settings and ensure it's legal to play a game.


Not our doing, as explained above. ND is the one that started that, and all of the multi-nationals did it and actually learned quite a bit in the process. Instead of making wildly inaccurate accusations so you can scream obscenities at everyone, I suggest you actually read the threads first.

And again, I expect better language from you in the future.
danaussie

Ok I've heard quite enough now, I will now be making an official complaint to the forum administrator and I will be asking for a full enquiry into your behaviour. I find you to be a very rude individual and have been repeatedly disrespectful to myself in particular and to others on the forum. Your confrontational attitude will no longer be tolerated.

Dan
sublime828

Ok ........ just a word to everybody in this discussion.......please keep it civil.  We've gone through a lot here in the clubhouse over the last month.  I understand that tempers of flashed, words have been said, and opinions have been made............but we are moving in the positive direction here and it's time to let go and accept the changes that are  occurring in our clubhouse.  

The original path for the clubhouse may have been a lot different than what it has been allowed to become but we are making the best of the situation.

The recent steps that have been taken to move the clubhouse in the right direction have been huge.  It is impossible to make everyone happy.  For those of you who are unhappy, Im sorry but this is how the clubhouse was allowed to develop and I think that under ND's and Dan's direction we were able to right the ship so to speak.  

Breaking up the competitions solved the fairness issue, researching the particular units in a theater forced the theater clubs to know their clubs inside out, and getting the clubhouse generally more streamlined for ease of use will benefit everyone.

Understandably some are happy with the changes and some are not.  It would be unreasonable to think that everyone would be happy because in any case it is impossible to accomplish such a feat.  The clubhouse is in the position that it is in because we put it in this position.  This is how it was allowed to develop and I think we did a rather nice job (although stressful and difficult) of trying to put everything back together in a way that is fair for everyone.  The transition in the clubhouse has been a difficult one but it was for the best interests of the clubhouse and we will be better with the changes in place.

To wrap up, I only ask that we all follow clubhouse policy and address each other as gentleman.  What is in the past is in the past, let us move forward.  

Thanks//  sub out
danaussie

I agree and sign off on all new critera and changes and respect any decision you will make in relation to the Club House Sublime.

Dan
rplume

I'm sorry MR. P71, but my choice of wording is family friendly nothing is derogatory in the sense of my  wording and the words are not considered vulgarism..  So with THAT in mind, Please consider taking your hypocrite personal rift out of the conversation here and stop tossing your weight around as a MOD to bully the conversation into submission. Thank you.

Fact is most of the large 1 nation groups are now splintered into the multis AND there are hardly ANY active members playing, I used the data obtained from the past league, as opposed to the 1st one to substantiate my claim. Perhaps your data to dispute is subjective?

I find the effort I'm seeing on numerous postings detailing what units can and cannot be used rather wasteful and confusing to utilize just to set up a challenge for a game.
Time well spent is time gaming and sinking ships, not wallowing thru limits just to build a fleet..
For this route tho I do suggest that the league  commissioner adds a few more months to the league length to accommodate the days spent making fleets and explaining to new players the criteria. I used the last few weeks of several multi national clubs postings to sustain my claim here.
I do read them.

Screaming obscenities? Again, I think you need to take pause... I never screamed in my response and I think you seem to be going overboard in your brashness sprouting accusations in defending your actions and this delusional "I'm the perfect person here" analogy of yourself, rather than partake in the  discussion as a constructive and honorable member of the community's Staff.

I too agree With Dan that your approach is rude and nonconstructive, everyone loves to be BMOC behind the PC screen and your actions speak for themselves, perhaps you should simmer down and smell the roses. In most of your posts these days, you get all worked up over reasonable discussion and you do not portray an approachable person on these forums, and should consider that your best effort in contributions to this whole folly is to resign from the staff and limit your underdeveloped leadership skills to maintaining your own little SP Club.

And lastly, I do expect better behavior from you in the future.
P71

danaussie wrote:
Ok I've heard quite enough now, I will now be making an official complaint to the forum administrator and I will be asking for a full enquiry into your behaviour. I find you to be a very rude individual and have been repeatedly disrespectful to myself in particular and to others on the forum. Your confrontational attitude will no longer be tolerated.

Dan


Dan,

Be my guest. I'm done playing your games, and anybody who reads all of our interactions will come to the same conclusion.

Now stop bickering and let sublime do his thing so we can get back to having fun here, okay?  Rolling Eyes
torpman

*facepalm* Could someone be the better man and just ignore the other person. Thanks
danaussie

P71 wrote:
danaussie wrote:
Ok I've heard quite enough now, I will now be making an official complaint to the forum administrator and I will be asking for a full enquiry into your behaviour. I find you to be a very rude individual and have been repeatedly disrespectful to myself in particular and to others on the forum. Your confrontational attitude will no longer be tolerated.

Dan


Dan,

Be my guest. I'm done playing your games, and anybody who reads all of our interactions will come to the same conclusion.

Now stop bickering and let sublime do his thing so we can get back to having fun here, okay?  Rolling Eyes


A formal complaint has been lodged, I will now wait for the forum administrator take whatever action he deems necessary.

Dan
torpman

torpman wrote:
*facepalm* Could someone be the better man and just ignore the other person. Thanks

BUMP PLEASE GUYS!!!
P71

rplume wrote:
I'm sorry MR. P71, but my choice of wording is family friendly nothing is derogatory in the sense of my  wording and the words are not considered vulgarism..


Your word choices were vulgar and in direct violation of this forum's rules. Please actually read the posting guidelines.

rplume wrote:
So with THAT in mind, Please consider taking your hypocrite personal rift out of the conversation here and stop tossing your weight around as a MOD to bully the conversation into submission.


I made it very clear which part of my post was as a Moderator, and which parts were not.

rplume wrote:
Time well spent is time gaming and sinking ships, not wallowing thru limits just to build a fleet..


Again, this was under the direction of this forum's owner, Neural Dream. If you have an issue with it, please take it up with him.

rplume wrote:
I think you seem to be going overboard in your brashness sprouting accusations in defending your actions and this delusional "I'm the perfect person here" analogy of yourself, rather than partake in the  discussion as a constructive and honorable member of the community's Staff.


You apparently didn't read the very post above my response to you where I said, "I wish no disrespect on anyone, and have eaten my own hat on this forum more than once after misunderstandings with people. I will gladly do so again, friend." Please stop assuming things and making false accusations, it is really getting tiring and petty. I am not perfect. I have admitted as such many times and have apologized on here before because of it, so turn the attitude down.

rplume wrote:
I too agree With Dan that your approach is rude and nonconstructive, everyone loves to be BMOC behind the PC screen and your actions speak for themselves, perhaps you should simmer down and smell the roses. In most of your posts these days, you get all worked up over reasonable discussion and you do not portray an approachable person on these forums, and should consider that your best effort in contributions to this whole folly is to resign from the staff and limit your underdeveloped leadership skills to maintaining your own little SP Club.


Actually, the only "heated discussion" I ever get into is because of Dan's temper tantrums. Recently I have also played an ABDA fleet with Solo from CFS, helped Club Med and CFS construct their fleet lists along with doing my own club's research, actively participated in the War at Sea Task Force and AAM Royal Rumble, and talked about Set VI. None of which was negative. Again, accusations based upon false assumptions. I'm sorry you feel like you're being "bullied", but if you took 2 seconds to look at reality you'd know I'm not even a Clubhouse Mod and that the only issues here with me involve Dan. I highly suggest you tone it down just person-to-person.
torpman

STOP IT ALL OF YOU!!! All this does is tear this forum apart and make people who don't even know each other hate each other please stop it.
P71

torpman wrote:
STOP IT ALL OF YOU!!! All this does is tear this forum apart and make people who don't even know each other hate each other please stop it.


You are right torpy. It's just a beer & pretzels game of plastic boats and an internet forum for fans of it. We take this way too seriously. Sorry, friend.
angryhydralisk

torpman wrote:
STOP IT ALL OF YOU!!! All this does is tear this forum apart and make people who don't even know each other hate each other please stop it.
torpman

P71 wrote:
torpman wrote:
STOP IT ALL OF YOU!!! All this does is tear this forum apart and make people who don't even know each other hate each other please stop it.


You are right torpy. It's just a beer & pretzels game of plastic boats and an internet forum for fans of it. We take this way too seriously. Sorry, friend.

Thank you... Now lets get back to our love of plasty crack and our prayer for whats in set 6
P71

torpman wrote:
P71 wrote:
torpman wrote:
STOP IT ALL OF YOU!!! All this does is tear this forum apart and make people who don't even know each other hate each other please stop it.


You are right torpy. It's just a beer & pretzels game of plastic boats and an internet forum for fans of it. We take this way too seriously. Sorry, friend.

Thank you... Now lets get back to our love of plasty crack and our prayer for whats in set 6


Is it too early to start a Special Causes Club for Java in Set VII??!?
torpman

P71 wrote:
torpman wrote:
P71 wrote:
torpman wrote:
STOP IT ALL OF YOU!!! All this does is tear this forum apart and make people who don't even know each other hate each other please stop it.


You are right torpy. It's just a beer & pretzels game of plastic boats and an internet forum for fans of it. We take this way too seriously. Sorry, friend.

Thank you... Now lets get back to our love of plasty crack and our prayer for whats in set 6


Is it too early to start a Special Causes Club for Java in Set VII??!?

I'd say not  Smile  FTJC  (Free The Java Club)
LuckyE

Wow, I think it's about time for everyone to take a deep breathe around here. Someone mentioned the silent majority here.  Well, I'm a part of that... mostly.  I've mostly just watched around here for the better part of the last two years and finally joined a few months ago.

It may be that I have no business getting involved in this business as I'm a new guy around and not directly involved with this beef, but as an impartial observer in this you might benefit from my point of view on this.  

After reading this whole tread last night and continued onward into tonight it seems that there are obviously some politics on the forum and things are quickly spinning out of control on this thread. Now I think most of us can agree that Dan is a good guy and has contributed a great deal to the forum. So Cheers to him for starters!!!

However, I also can see that P71 also has some valid points about the changes to club play.  Indeed, being able to play multiple nations enriches the game and makes it more fun.  More options are always good in my opinion as long as there are some governing rules.  

It is also good that some strict and necessary rules for 'theater clubs operations' may make it harder to put a fleet together may take more time and effort, but it's also fair and helps preserve game balance.

Having two brackets of club play should be enough to keep the peace.  Those who like one nation clubs have theirs, and the multi-folks will have theirs as well.  To each their own right?

With that said, I do have to agree with Dan that P71 is too aggressive with his arguments... to the point of insulting.  While he does have good points he's trying to make, he often pursues them too harshly to the point where his arguments look like personal attacks.  Sorry p71, not trying to take sides, but unfortunately it's true.

With that said, rplume is also somewhat guilty of this.  I can appreciate that you are trying to stick up for Dan and for your point of view on club play, but you've also gone a little too far. There needs to be mutual respect. Dan's a good man and you have a right to your opinion, it's just that you may not have always chosen the best words or tone to get you point across with p71. Still, can I respect what you are saying.

It's not that either you or p71 are flat out wrong in your arguments, it's rather that your mutual passion for the game and for your own particular points of view are getting the better of your compassion for each-other's feelings and respect for one another.

It's ok not to agree with one another, but you guys are pushing this into a personal war.  It's not necessary.  You are all right in one way or another, it's your approach that is wrong.  

It's very possible this thread should have never been started. Sorry miss Aussie, don't want to make it look like I'm coming after you or pointing a finger, but from the first few paragraphs of your opening post I knew that it would lead to trouble. Where as I'm sure you intention was probably good, even I could see that there was defiantly some inflammatory lines in there.

Still, I'm happy to accept you as a new member of the forum and welcome you with open arms. I respect your husband and you as well for sticking up for what you believe in. However, maybe it's time to end this particular discussion eh?  

Maybe everyone should just let bigons be bigons for now?  Or at least agree to disagree?  After all, a house divided can not stand right?    Sad
sublime828

Very well put LuckyE.  Lets leave it at that.  On to other discussions Very Happy
rplume

thanks for your impartial view, Lucky

I called out things the way I saw them being called, sometimes it takes a mirror image to reflect upon ones self...Perhaps that's not the proper way, but it serves the dish. Nobody is above anyone else and they should never talk down to others unless they are thick skinned enough to be talked back down to.

I expect retaliation for contesting the authority, but my points are shown and my feelings known, and at least I don't have to apologize every week for another one of my "mistakes"..

Out of sight, out of mind.. Smile
Bull Halsey

As a new and probably the youngest club president here, im appalled by some of your guys actions and the way you handle things. have things gotten this bad that we now posscess fights about an Online forum? its really uncivil...ive come to respect alot of you guys over the past year since ive come back and now, someof my repsect towards some of you are all but gone...if things get ANYWORSE, ill be resigning as CA president and never return to the club house.
bull
rcbecker1

Boy Im glad thats over. Didnt want to see this implode. I come here to read cool stuff and see pics of great painted ships.  I like everyone here and want to keep it that way. Even though I will never see most of you before my Great Naval Ship sinks in those deep dark waters.
Ray
LuckyE

Well, I was just hoping to diffuse the situation some.  

I am impressed that you are a big enough to admit that your approach might not have been the proper way to go.  I can see to a certain degree that you were perhaps goaded into an argument, so you are not totally at fault.  

What you said in your last post about mirrors was very true and insightful.  I hope everyone else with a steak in this thread can take something away from that statement as well.  

I think everyone should remember that hasty words are often later-regretted words. I know this is essentially a forum about waging war, but does a 'war of words' reflect the spirit of the game?  

Sorry if I'm getting a little preachy. I've always played the role of a moderate when it comes to politics.  As such, I usually try to have everyone meet halfway.

If someone was to ask me if I would like to have a free gift, I'd reply that my heart tells me maybe.   Wink
Bull Halsey

rplume wrote:
all this multi nation stuff and "special groups" thing did was splinter the community into some handbag slinging bingo hall.  Everyone likes the original plan but then has to take a good idea and smear it with their own stench of silliness until so much pus has oozed out that it becomes a festering wound of penile envy.

Sadly some of you guys are piles of stink when it comes down to the point. Can't leave a good thing alone, can't leave a good man in charge. Why with all the effort wasted in this limitations by county or sea or club, you folks could have made the league a better place and played at least a dozen more games in the past months.
Instead it's so freaking confusing and piled on with  rules on this /that..  do you guys have this much turmoil at the LGS to get a game going every week?  Do I need to bring a lawyer with me when I go so he can check the settings and ensure it's legal to play a game.

wow man..... that's deep water for a simple game.

I take it your against multinational clubs...
Flakstruk

Maybe this thread can go on hiatus for a day just to cool tempers.
Bull Halsey

sounds good to me, who wants a hug!!! Very Happy
Flakstruk

Only if your the bird from hood's UK unit thread
P71

LuckyE wrote:
All good words...


All very well said LuckyE, and you are right. I apologize for taking this too far.

By the way, welcome to the Club! Hopefully we haven't scared you away as you sound like a great addition.
P71

Flakstruk wrote:
Maybe this thread can go on hiatus for a day just to cool tempers.


Permanently would honestly be better for all involved.
Flakstruk

P71 wrote:
Flakstruk wrote:
Maybe this thread can go on hiatus for a day just to cool tempers.


Permanently would honestly be better for all involved.


You could be right.

Should that there be a need, I offer myself as a private intermediary to help smooth things out before they get to a head
LuckyE

I have to agree with p71, permanent hiatus might be better for this tread.  I think it's run its course, so maybe it'd be better if we just leave it be.  

Thank you for your welcome p71, it's appreciated.

And no worries, I don't scare easily. I'm just glad to be of some service to the forum. If you look to the left of this post you'll notice I haven't participated too much up until this point.  I've just watched for months now. So it's nice that I was finally able to contribute some for the benefit of the folks around here.  

For the most part I only have mediocre skills at playing the game, painting pieces, and modeling. But if there's one thing I'm good at, it's seeing both sides of an argument. Laughing  

You, Dan, rplume, and pretty much everyone else here all have something good to bring to the game and to the forum.  Better we work together for the greater good.

I must say, it's big of you for admitting for taking things too far. I think with that said that we can all move on. And with a new set coming out in just a few weeks we can all be very happy in the near future!!!
danaussie

Once again I will re-iterate that my conscience is clear and in no way have I attacked this person. I have made changes and I have tried to work with this person all the while being disrespected and rudely challenged all the way. I would be more forgiving if I had not been the victim of a 60 day witch hunt at the hands of a person that had made things so unbearable I decided to stand down.

I have no problem with the changes that have been made and I hope in all sincerity that the Club House will host some fabulous competitions and continue to thrive and be an asset  for the Forumini.

I will not stand by however and accept that this kind of deplorable behaviour against myself and several others will be let slide without recourse. If the Moderators here are powerless to prevent such behaviour from happening in the future there is no point there being Moderators here at all.

This member has repeatedly challenged my authority (as Club House President) and has sought hard to damage my reputation, if this sort of behaviour goes unpunished here at Forumini I think I would no longer want to be part of this for fear of a repeat of the ordeal that I have been put through, at sometime in the future by the next person that decides to take a set against me.

All the very best everyone

Dan
NeuralDream

I am glad things have calmed down, but this will be locked now.

rplume, the semi-historical class limitations are for theater clubs only. Nothing has changed in the national clubs, so i'm not sure what you mean, but please pm me with your concerns.

(locked by ND)

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