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Sharpe

Mauser Karabiner 98k [APPROVED & LOCKED]

Same as AAM, but add SA:

Entwicklung--At end of Casualty Phase, if unit has no markers, player may transfer a Pinned marker from a friendly MG in the same hex to unit.
NeuralDream

Just to be consistent with the way we write them on the card and with WoTC terminology:

ENTWICKLUNG: At the end of the Casualty Phase, if this unit has no counters, you may transfer a Pinned counter from a local friendly MG to this unit.

I don't think we need to be laconic with the S.A.s. For example, this unit has only two.

Will the name of the unit be Mauser Riflemen? I ask this because there are other nations that would have the same unit name I believe. E.g. Finnish Mauser Riflemen.

Also, if you refer to the original card, it may be useful to post it here, because the card maker may not have it when he makes the card.



Will the defense be 4/4 or 4/6?


Also, it may be useful to find the unit's photo for the card maker.

Btw, this is a smart S.A. I like it a lot. Will it bump the cost up to 4 or will all cost-3 infantry have something similar?

Who's making the infantry cards? Is it LT_Vleclopity or Buzzkill?
Angel of Death

Entwicklung means 'Development'
I can't bridge the title 'Entwicklung' with an SA that means you take over somebodies machinegun.

Great SA though. übernahme (take over) sounds more suitable as a title though.


p.s. if I can help making some cards, to speed things up, I'll be glad to.
If somebody can mail a few templates, I'll make some cards.
mail jorrithansson -add- gmail -dot- com
But if anyone else wants to do the honours, be my guest. Time is limited.
Buzzkill

I am available to make cards, but I can certainly split duties with the EL TEE. Just let me know.
Buzzkill

NeuralDream wrote:
Just to be consistent with the way we write them on the card and with WoTC terminology:

ENTWICKLUNG: At the end of the Casualty Phase, if this unit has no counters, you may transfer a Pinned counter from a local friendly MG to this unit.

I don't think we need to be laconic with the S.A.s. For example, this unit has only two.

Will the name of the unit be Mauser Riflemen? I ask this because there are other nations that would have the same unit name I believe. E.g. Finnish Mauser Riflemen.

Also, if you refer to the original card, it may be useful to post it here, because the card maker may not have it when he makes the card.



Will the defense be 4/4 or 4/6?


Also, it may be useful to find the unit's photo for the card maker.

Btw, this is a smart S.A. I like it a lot. Will it bump the cost up to 4 or will all cost-3 infantry have something similar?

Who's making the infantry cards? Is it LT_Vleclopity or Buzzkill?


I think a thread for each unit we pics are solicited as well as SA's and stats debated, when the card is approved, close the thread and move the card to completed card thread.

About the SA: What does "local" mean. I think if we leave wording so vague it will confuse and/or lead to abuse. My local and your local may be very different. I think we need to say adjacent or 2 hexes or something like that.
Sharpe

Sorry guys.  I fell asleep before I could finish everything last night.

I got "entwicklung" as meaning "tactical deployment" from

http://www.figuren-modellbau.de/tactics-1932-german-infantry.html

It is a 4/6.  3 pts  (I hope all base infantry will have a little SA)

Mauser and MG should be in same hex.  (not "local" or "adjacent")

I'll calculate Cover later today

I already talked with BK and LTV about collecting photos for existing WoTC cards.  I won't be posting any photos for WoTC cards.

I don't know how to post the cards.
NeuralDream

I guess it's WAS then where local officially means "in the same sector" and is always used in the S.As.
Buzzkill

NeuralDream wrote:
I guess it's WAS then where local officially means "in the same sector" and is always used in the S.As.


Again my lack of WAS experience comes back to bite me.
Buzzkill

Just for S&G's. I know the stats aren't all worked out, this is just to get us started.

Sharpe

Cover is 5.
Sharpe

Do we want to do 8/6/5 or just 8/6?

Should there be AV dice at greater than range 1?
Sharpe

AngelofDeath needs to check my spelling, but how about

"Wehrmacht Infanterie"  for a name
Buzzkill

Sharpe wrote:
AngelofDeath needs to check my spelling, but how about

"Wehrmacht Infanterie"  for a name


Damn it! You stole my thunder! I actually named the unit "Wehrmacht Mauser Kar 98k" then changed it back.

Just for clarification, if we go this route are we going to do away individual named weapon units? For example, the Thompson? or BAR? If so, then I think we need to consider the infantry squads as 8-12 guys of mixed weapons. Minis like the Thompson or BAR can then be used as scouts, NCO's or other special units. Just trying to get a feel for where we are going with this.
Sharpe

No, I still want to use the Thompson and BAR for units and keep the fireteam scale.

ND pointed out that some rifles were used by more than one country and we should avoid using those weapons as names.  We'll still make units named after weapons when that weapon is distinctive to one country (MP-40, BAR, Sten, Arisaka, etc)

I don't mind Wehrmacht Mauser kar 98k at all.  It's just a mouthful.
Buzzkill

Sharpe wrote:
I don't mind Wehrmacht Mauser kar 98k at all.  It's just a mouthful.


This coming from the guy who is trying to get me to say "Infanterie"!Surprised

I understand the idea behind the unit names now, I am in agreement.
NeuralDream

I understand close assault for riflemen, but how would 5 riflemen have 2 attack dice vs. a tank from range 1? Can 5 rifles disrupt a Pz38t just by shooting at it from 100m away?
Sharpe

Maybe not, but would they have a 25% chance of pinning a half-track? or 50% of pinning a truck?

Could the 2 AD represent rifle grenades?
NeuralDream

I doubt. I think that 50% to pin a truck is a bit high if they have no SMG or LMG.

In a team of 5, would they have rifle grenades? Rifle grenades are used by grenadiers like the French unit of AAM. Also, if I remember correctly the British rifle grenades should be used at 10-20 yards to be effective against vehicles.

I think that we need to make some tank cards to evaluate the antitank capacity of the infantry.
Sharpe

REVISED

(0-1) 8/ (2-3) 6/ (4) 5
(0-1) 1

Speed 1
Defense 4/6
Cover 5

CA4
ENTWICKLUNG
Buzzkill



I need a guideline for how we are doing the dates, and who ever is in knowledgeable in that area needs to post them up along with the unit stats. This card is done except for the date.
Sharpe

Buzzkill wrote:


I need a guideline for how we are doing the dates, and who ever is in knowledgeable in that area needs to post them up along with the unit stats. This card is done except for the date.


Date is 7/36.  I'm trying to do a better job with the dates in the future.

AV is wrong.  Should be 1 in first column and nothing after that.

Looks great.
Buzzkill

Fixed.
Sharpe

Please take out the commas after "MG" and "hex" in the second SA.
Buzzkill

Double fixed.
Sharpe

Thanks
Angel of Death

I'm still opposed to Entwicklung.
The term can be translated into different things, unfortunately.

Either :

Envelopment (meant in your wargame article)
or
Development (in a non-tactical context)

Still, Entwicklung / Envelopment doesn't fit what the SA says.
It's more of an Enfilade Fire routine.


Schwerpunkt ( heavy point literally , main focus/point of attack contextually ) , in the same article, fits better to the SA effect. "The unit which formed the Schwerpunkt received the most support weapons and the largest ammunition supply, its success was reinforced vigorously."
Sharpe

I was going to use Cross-Training or try to think about something to do with tactical flexibility or focus.  Schwerpunkt is too big for a squad.

How do you say "Teamwork" in German?
Angel of Death

Gruppenarbeit (group-labor) / Zusammenarbeit (together-labor) / Zusammenwirkung (working together : fits best)


Gefechtsführung (the way fighting is done) sounds good too, though. But it doesn't mean anything specific.


Gefecht der verbunden Waffen (combined arms) is close, but not quite. Wrong scale.


German is a complicated language Smile
Sharpe

Gefechtsführung it is.  AoD, do we need the umlaut and the "h" both?

Mr. Buzzkill, please change "Entwicklung" to "Gefechtsführung."

Thank you.
Angel of Death

Technically it is as is, but if you ditch the umlaut, I dont think anybody but a purist would mind. It would become :

Gefechtsfuehrung
Sharpe

I wasn't sure.  We'll keep the umlaut.  Sorry for questioning you.
NeuralDream

Yes, please keep the umlaut.

Also, I know it is silly, but can you change July 1936 to Jul. 1936, just to be consistent with the rest of the cards, where it's Jan., Feb., Mar., Apr., May, Jun., Jul ...?

And a slightly more important one is to select all S.A. text, right click and choose Vertical Alignment: Middle. I've probably have a mistake in that infantry template, because I see Top Vertical Aligment in your card instead of Middle.

And a last one: In AAM it's counter, not marker. For consistency it's better to replace all references to marker with counter.
Buzzkill

NeuralDream wrote:
Yes, please keep the umlaut.


Done. Is there an easy way to do this? I ended up going to the charmap and copying and pasting into publisher.

NeuralDream wrote:
Also, I know it is silly, but can you change July 1936 to Jul. 1936, just to be consistent with the rest of the cards, where it's Jan., Feb., Mar., Apr., May, Jun., Jul ...?


Fixed.

NeuralDream wrote:
And a slightly more important one is to select all S.A. text, right click and choose Vertical Alignment: Middle. I've probably have a mistake in that infantry template, because I see Top Vertical Aligment in your card instead of Middle.


Fixed. It was already set at middle, but the text wasn't centering. I found a bunch of text that had wrapped off the bottom and wasn't visible. Once I deleted that, it centered properly.

NeuralDream wrote:
And a last one: In AAM it's counter, not marker. For consistency it's better to replace all references to marker with counter.


Fixed.

NeuralDream

Buzzkill wrote:

Done. Is there an easy way to do this? I ended up going to the charmap and copying and pasting into publisher.


a with umlaut is alt+0228  (keep alt pressed and type 0228 at the numpad)
o with umlaut is alt+0246
u with umlaut is alt+0252

See for details: http://tlt.its.psu.edu/suggestion...ional/accents/codealt.html#accent
Angel of Death

Extended ascii codes :
http://www.asciitable.com/

alt 129 also works for ü
Sharpe

or

http://www.ccsf.edu/Departments/Language_Center/accentspc.htm
Amandil

"Wehrmacht Infanterie" is way too generic, I think.  It translates as "Armed Forces Infantry," more or less.  The Wehrmacht includes the army, the air force, the navy and the SS!  And there was a lot more infantry in the army (Heer), let alone the Wehrmacht, than Mauser riflemen.

Why not call it "Heer K98 Rifleman"?  Heer is more accurate than Wehrmacht and only one syllable, and K98 is an accurate description of the rifle as well as not sounding like a "car" to English speakers.
NeuralDream

The Kar98 was more accurate than the Garand at medium and long range. I think you have them the other way around.
Sharpe

I figured number of shots outweighed accuracy.  I'll switch it if you want.
NeuralDream

Sharpe wrote:
I figured number of shots outweighed accuracy.  I'll switch it if you want.
Number of shots made a bigger difference in close range.
Angel of Death

The Kar98 was a bolt action rifle, the Garand could fire semi-automatic. Also it carried 8 rounds where the Kar98 had 5. Both had an effective range of about 500 meters (ok, Mauser has some advantage there), unless you used the sniper Mauser carabine 98 who tested best in the factory and had sights.

I'm no expert on firearms, but surely the volume of fire would have an effect on attack dice ?!
Sharpe

That was my thinking
Amandil

What's the range in metres again for 'medium' and 'long' range?  100m hexes still?  If medium range is 200-400m, maybe the better of accuracy of the Mauser might warrant more dice than the Garand, but my guess is that any old soldier shooting at a target 500-800m away isn't going to get close to hitting it unless he's a sharpshooter.  Why not give the Garand more dice at close range, the Mauser one more die than the Garand at medium range, and then equally shitty dice at long range (if any dice at all)?
Angel of Death



Pic, Text and Close Assault edit
Sharpe

change "you" to "player" in 2nd SA
NeuralDream

Sharpe wrote:
change "you" to "player" in 2nd SA

Why? "You" is the word used in WoTC AAM cards. Is it inaccurate?
Sharpe

I try to avoid using 2nd person.  It's not that confusing here, but I fear it might be later and I would like to be consistent.  I have many hobgoblins in my foolish mind.

It's not a biggie if it stays the way it is.
Angel of Death

Westentaschenschlachti

Amandil wrote:
"Wehrmacht Infanterie" is way too generic, I think.  It translates as "Armed Forces Infantry," more or less.  The Wehrmacht includes the army, the air force, the navy and the SS!  And there was a lot more infantry in the army (Heer), let alone the Wehrmacht, than Mauser riflemen.

Why not call it "Heer K98 Rifleman"?  Heer is more accurate than Wehrmacht and only one syllable, and K98 is an accurate description of the rifle as well as not sounding like a "car" to English speakers.


Wehrmacht doesnt translates to armed forces infantry. "Wehr" comes from "wehren", which means to defend. And "Macht" means force or power. So Wehrmacht means defending power or sth in that way. And Wehrmacht only was the army, the air force was the Luftwaffe, the navy the Kriegsmarine and the SS-Troops were NOT controlled and commanded by the Wehrmacht.

And "Gefechtsführung" is much better than "Entwicklung" for my taste. Sorry if i missed something else and this post is obsolete, but my german is a lot better than my english  Wink
Amandil

Westentaschenschlachti wrote:
Wehrmacht doesnt translates to armed forces infantry. "Wehr" comes from "wehren", which means to defend. And "Macht" means force or power. So Wehrmacht means defending power or sth in that way. And Wehrmacht only was the army, the air force was the Luftwaffe, the navy the Kriegsmarine and the SS-Troops were NOT controlled and commanded by the Wehrmacht.

Indeed, "wehr" means to protect and "macht" means "might," so "Defence Forces" translates the meaning a little better than "Armed Forces."  (Far be it from me to get into a dispute with a German native speaker over the meaning of a German word! Smile)

Nevertheless, look at how generic the word is:  why wouldn't "defence forces" include the 'air weapons' and the 'fighting navy' and the 'protective squadron'?  To my knowledge, the German word for "army" (i.e., the land forces) is Heer.  It was called this during the Nazi era (for example, see http://www.feldgrau.com/), and the contemporary Bundeswehr refers to the land branch of the military as "Das Heer."
Quote:
The Wehrmacht Heer was from 1935 to 1945 the army section of the German Wehrmacht which also consisted of the navy and air force. During Second World War, a total of about 15 million soldiers served in the German Army, of which about 3 million perished.

The DDR was an exception to this:
Quote:
The East German army was the "Kommando Landstreitkräfte," the Nationale Volksarmee were the military armed forces of the GDR.

And that is exactly the difference: "Heer" refers to armies, "Armee" (like "Streitkraft" and "Wehrmacht") refers to the armed forces of a country as a whole.

Interestingly, the usage of the DDR seems to be the same in Austria: the "Österreichs Bundesheer" appears to refer to the entire Austrian armed forces, whereas "Kommando Landstreitkräfte (KdoLaSK)" refers specifically to the land forces.

So historically, it isn't accurate to refer to 'regular German riflemen from 1935-1945' as "Wehrmacht Riflemen," as if SS soldiers or luftwaffe infantrymen weren't:
Quote:
Wehrmacht   (Ger.: Wehrmacht, defence power) refers to the German armed forces of WW II. In 1935 Hitler announced the existence of the air force and the reintroduction of conscription, both prohibited by the Treaty of Versailles. The Wehrmacht thereafter comprised the army (Heer), the navy (Kriegsmarine), and the air force (Luftwaffe). Each had its own headquarters, OKH (Oberkommando des Heeres) for the army, OKM (Oberkommando der Marine) for the navy, and OKL (Oberkommando der Luftwaffe) for the air force.
--The Oxford Companion to Military History
Westentaschenschlachti

Yes i agree, Wehrmacht Riflemen isnt really accurate, but i never claimed that. I just pointed out that "Heer" Rifleman sounds very very strange in german. You dont even say Heer to the german Bundeswehr in these years, you use Armee which means Army of course. The Austrian Bundesheer is special, you really call the Army "Heer" here, but only here.

Germany = Bundeswehr
Austria = Bundesheer

WWII Germany = Werhmacht... or Deutsche Armee (german army), but not really deutsches heer, sounds strange.

Better would be "German Army Rifleman" or "Deutscher Landser" which was a Nickname of the typical german soldier, but i guess the card is already finished isnt it?
NeuralDream

Not really. They are all under review : http://aaminis.myfastforum.org/about5437.html
Angel of Death

Currently used title is : Mauser Karabiner 98k Riflemen
No  'Heer' or 'Wehrmacht' included.

Is that ok with the Germany natives / near natives ?

Comment here, like ND mentioned :
http://aaminis.myfastforum.org/about5437.html
Westentaschenschlachti

Ehm...its okay for me, but i tought the whole problem were different nations and all used the Mauser Kar...so you liked to have different names or sth.
Amandil

Am glad that's all taken care of.

And now for something (almost) completely different:
Quote:
Given these disadvantages the Wehrmacht's achievements are all the more astonishing. The army generated a combat performance which was consistently 20–30 per cent better than that of British and American units facing it. Martin van Creveld called it ‘a superb fighting organisation … [which] probably had no equal among twentieth-century armies’. Because of Hitler's strategic errors, from 1942 Germany fought an increasingly attritional struggle against powerful opponents, but even after the tide of war had turned against them German armed forces continued to astonish their opponents by dogged defence sprinkled with rapid counter-attacks. ...

Cultural factors like national character and the status enjoyed by the armed forces within society played their part in promoting a performance which, in victory and defeat, remains remarkable. There were also a number of specifically military factors. Until the training and replacement system broke down under the impact of defeats in east and west in mid-1944 German soldiers were not simply better trained than their opponents, but were delivered from the Replacement Army to the front line by way of ‘marching battalions’ which gave regiments a strong incentive to polish the training of their own replacements, who were often trained by the officers and NCOs who would lead them in battle. Officer and NCO training was well ahead of that in Allied armies: in Normandy it is no exaggeration to say that the average German senior NCO was better trained than the average Allied junior officer, while German officer training routinely incorporated periods of front-line service.
--The Oxford Companion to Military History

(I found this yesterday when I was looking up the whole Wehrmacht Heer business.)

I like the current SA for the standard German rifleman (Gefechtsführung or whatever).  The above info would make for a cool SA for an early-war German commander, wouldn't it?  Even an NCO who would be less-expensive and just as effective (or more, perhaps), than the Allied commander units of the time period.  I'm just throwing this out there for ideas.
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