Sharpe
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M1 Garand Riflemen (SD)(0-1) 8/ (2-3) 7/ (4) 6
(0-1) 1
Speed 1
Defense 4/6
Cover 5
CA3
OUT OF PRACTICE--Unit must be adjacent to a Soldier/Commander to remove a Pinned counter.
Cost 3
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RAEVSKI
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love the american unit 
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Sharpe
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Thanks
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Sharpe
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OK, experts, what's the date on this thing? It's in production, then redesigned, then increased production then Army is completely equipped by when in 1941?
Range? I've seen 400 yds, 440, 460, 550? What gives?
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NeuralDream
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Effective range was similar to all other rifles. Maybe a little less accurate than the Kar98 at 200-400m, but I don't think it would have different stats.
Another nice photo:
Edit: I see in your stats that you've given them 6 dice at 500 yards. I think that's a bit too much. They have 35% probability of getting 4 successes from 500 yards!
If we were using max effective range for all units, the tanks would have range 30 and the aircraft range 8.
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Sharpe
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I wanted the WW1 helmet for a pre-war look.
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Buzzkill
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Sharpe
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Date 6/41 (may change based on new data)
Double check CA text
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Buzzkill
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Fixed. What is wrong with the CA text, I'm not seeing it.
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Sharpe
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Close Assault 3 but attacks with 4
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Buzzkill
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| Sharpe wrote: | | Close Assault 3 but attacks with 4 |
 Fixed.
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Angel of Death
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-adjusted the close assault text-
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Amandil
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What's the rationale for giving out-of-practice guys with an 8-round semi-auto 7 dice at 200-300m when it's less accurate than a Kar98 at that range? If Neural Dream doesn't think the difference is enough to give it "different stats," then the mid-range dice for the Garand should be 6. Or do we think their 200-300m effectiveness was equivalent to the 0-100m effectiveness of Bulgarian soldiers? Just asking (my hunch is that it would be better to give the Garand a "semi-auto" SA of some sort instead of extra medium-range dice).
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Sharpe
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| Amandil wrote: | | What's the rationale for giving out-of-practice guys with an 8-round semi-auto 7 dice at 200-300m when it's less accurate than a Kar98 at that range? If Neural Dream doesn't think the difference is enough to give it "different stats," then the mid-range dice for the Garand should be 6. Or do we think their 200-300m effectiveness was equivalent to the 0-100m effectiveness of Bulgarian soldiers? Just asking (my hunch is that it would be better to give the Garand a "semi-auto" SA of some sort instead of extra medium-range dice). |
More bullets. I don't think they're out of practice shooting, just out of practice at being shot at.
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Zeus
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Of course I don't know what more units you have in the pipeline, but isn't it a bit harsh to give the basic rifleman of any country, that can be used in any scenario from start to end of the war, such a negative ability?
The ability seems more in place for "fresh", "green", "conscript" etc units.
Or will all basic riflemen units (or even ALL units, period) get multiple cards, ie early, mid and late war, or one for each year or whatever (for the record, I would strongly advice against this)?
I think a unit with the name of a weapon should represent that weapon's performance, and nothing more. The stats should be that weapon's stats, no matter who is carrying it, using abilities to represent things like experience, marksmanship etc.
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Amandil
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| Sharpe wrote: | | Amandil wrote: | | What's the rationale for giving out-of-practice guys with an 8-round semi-auto 7 dice at 200-300m when it's less accurate than a Kar98 at that range? If Neural Dream doesn't think the difference is enough to give it "different stats," then the mid-range dice for the Garand should be 6. Or do we think their 200-300m effectiveness was equivalent to the 0-100m effectiveness of Bulgarian soldiers? Just asking (my hunch is that it would be better to give the Garand a "semi-auto" SA of some sort instead of extra medium-range dice). |
More bullets. I don't think they're out of practice shooting, just out of practice at being shot at. |
Okay, but more (and inaccurate) bullets at 200-300m? Still seems to me volume would matter at 0-100m.
Anyway, whatever. I've just always been shocked that Garands get 7 dice a medium range, although this may be due to that extra dice that the "Coordinated Fire SA" gave them. Don't mind me!
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NeuralDream
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TBH Garands excelled at 0-100m. IMO 8 is too low, except if you take into account that they are green. In that case though, 7 and 6 is too high. I see a lot of disagreement on this unit, so I think it should be moved to the main subforum for comments, or even AAM General.
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Amandil
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Agreed with ND.
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Amandil
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| NeuralDream wrote: | | TBH Garands excelled at 0-100m. IMO 8 is too low, except if you take into account that they are green. In that case though, 7 and 6 is too high. |
How about this for the Garand?
Range: 0-1 Dice: 9
Range: 2-3 Dice: 6
Range: 4 Dice: 5
That makes it better at close range than any standard soldier with a bolt action (lots of extra bullets), but no better at the medium ranges than any standard soldier with a bolt action (inaccuracy at range + more bullets in the air = about equal).
Additionally, one could even add another (a third?) SA for "semi-automatic rifle" (the Gewehr 43 and Tokarev SVT40 could have the same SA, others too): "After rolling attack dice for this unit, you may reroll a single die result of 1" (identical to the old "Guard Crew" SA). If this SA plus the 9 dice at 0-1 is too overpowering, maybe just make the Garand dice equal to a Mauser rifleman's stats, but give it a compensating "semi-automatic" SA (like the one I've given as a possibility)?
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NeuralDream
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Actually, re-rolling 1s is a good idea. It captures the essence of the semi-automatic rifle.
I would give them 7/6/5 (for being green) and the semi-automatic rifle S.A..
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Sharpe
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The point was that these were the old regular army, not the draftees. They had a crummy tactical doctrine and inexperience, but could shoot fairly well.
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Amandil
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Fair enough; in that case, why not 8/6/5 with your (Sharpe's) negative "Out of Practice" SA and (something like) my positive "Semi-Automatic" SA?
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Zeus
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I happen to have done the very same for semi-automatics (the "Guards" solution I mean). It makes them slightly better than bolt-actions, while not making them so good that it becomes hard to stat LMG's and HMG's (a basic LMG like the bren can still get 9 at short range).
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Buzzkill
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I like the idea of the Semi auto SA and the negative SA for tactics. What ever you want to say about Americans, we have always been pretty good shots. Going all the way back to the Revolutionary War, American soldiers, who grew up hunting and shooting, were known for their marksmanship.
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Amandil
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Has a consensus been reached in this discussion?
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Arisaka99
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So when do you start locking in the infantry Neural Dream?
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NeuralDream
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The specific unit has objections pending, so it can't be locked. All other infantry cards can be locked I think. AngelOfDeath is making the cards, so I guess you'll have to wait until he makes them (all except this one I guess).
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Angel of Death
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Work is keeping me very occupied at the moment. Saturdays will be a good moment though. After weekend shopping and the like.
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Angel of Death
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Most up to date card :
Any advancement on the discussion. Unit looks fine to me.
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NeuralDream
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Seeing that the Italian sniper got range 5, relatively green riflemen getting the same range seems a bit too much.
Let's have a new round of discussions for the garand and we can consider it for review next time, when we'll make the second round of infantry cards. In the meantime, I think you can safely add all other infantry cards in the stickies.
Very good job with the cards btw  . They look neat.
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Angel of Death
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Thanx for trying to be funny. Cards were already stickied in the main section.
I'd appreciate it if other people would make some cards as well (apart from ND of course). This is quite time consuming.
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NeuralDream
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That's great. I hadn't noticed that they were already in:).
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NeuralDream
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I guess we can lock this one too.
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